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A Gift From A Floating Head: Let's Talk About The Jagermech!


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#1 Wales Grey

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:43 PM

Ballistics have long suffered in Battletech. They’re heavy, bulky, do mediocre damage, have limited ammunition, and said ammunition tends to blow you up if it gets scratched. Despite all these flaws, everyone still loves to slap a robot in the face with an AC/20 hit, and nothing keeps enemy air assets away from your valiant cyberknights quite like a flak screen. Outside these two roles, traditional ballistics tend to be of somewhat limited utility compared to energy weapons and missiles. Mechwarrior Online has done a good deal to make ballistics more usable, especially the lighter guns. These changes promise to make the next mech (no not the Trebuchet, the next-next mech) far more usable than it was in the tabletop game. The mech I’m talking about is none other than the infamous Jagermech.

Fellow Goon and Official Battlecorps Author, PoptartsNinja, has done an excellent fluffy write-up of the Trebuchet, which I did a thread about a while back. Read it here!

Useless Historical Background
Sarna.net describes the Jagermech as dual-role AA platform/direct fire support mech, intended to fix the problems of the venerable Rifleman, the biggest of which was the whole copyright snafu with Harmony Gold over the rights to use the Destroid Defender from Super-Dimentional Fortress Macross. Oh, and the ammo bins on the Rifleman were extremely shallow. Which was kind of a blessing in disguise given that a Rifleman with ammo was more dangerous to itself because of its ridiculous overheating problems. Seriously, two Large Lasers on ten single heat sinks? Only in the Star League, folks. Sadly, as much as I liked using it, the Rifleman wasn’t really all that superb of a design.

Variants:
(Thanks Redshift2k5!)

Almost Assuredly Going to Show Up:

JM6-S:
This is the “standard” Jagermech, from which all others draw their inspiration. Not that there’s a lot to be inspired by on the stock gear on this variant. The Jagger-S comes stock with a quartet of autocannons: two 5-class, and two 2-class, along with a pair of medium lasers. In tabletop Battletech, this loadout can be generously described as ‘sparse’. In MWO, autocannons function closer to their incarnation in the Solaris rules-set with a pretty impressive rate of fire. The stock Jagger-S is basically a slightly lighter Dakkaphract, and can probably achieve some armor-melting DPS from chain-firing its cannons. Don’t get too excited though, this chassis comes very light on armor, charitably described by Sarna.net as “a miserly six tonnes”. Heat, funnily enough, is also a major issue for this variant, as it comes with a mere ten single heat sinks, plenty for tabletop shooting, but a bit lacking given how much of a heat-hog dual AC/2s are, before adding in the AC/5s. Stay at range, and try to wait for other pilots to get the enemy’s attention before you start shooting.

JM6-A:
Take a JM6-S, and swap out the AC/5s and their ammo for a pair of LRM-15s, along with some much-needed armor. That’s basically what the JM6-A is. The LRM tubes give this version much greater damage potential over a shorter period of time, but somewhat easily foiled by ECM. Don’t let the extra armor go to your head; stay at range, and take potshots with this one.

JM6-DD:
A Helm Memory Core refit of the JM6-S, this variant swaps out every component except its structure and heat sinks for the “upgraded” versions: an extra-light engine, medium pulse lasers, UAC/5s, and case for its ammo bins. For those of you scratching your heads about this variant’s use of FF armor instead of Endo Steel, I don’t really have an answer for you. Swapping the guns and armor is easy enough for that to only count as a Class C Refit (Maintenance), something that’s relatively inexpensive and simple to do on a fleet of units, along the lines of upgrading an M1 Abrams to an M1A1 Abrams. Changing the engine type, however, is a Class E Refit (Factory), the same refit grade as swapping the standard chassis out for an endo-steel frame. Maybe there was just a better supply of FF armor? No one knows. :iiam:

You’ll Probably Have to Wait for These:

JM6-DG:
This, as you may well have guessed from the –DG, is a double gauss refit that also features ER-Medium Lasers. I fully expect to see things like this on the field less than an hour after the Jagermech hits the game. I’m not quite sure how this will compare to the dread Gaussapult, it’ll be up to the hitboxes and gun positions.

JM6-H:
This is a Periphery refit which means, as you may have guessed, ROCKET LAUNCHERS EVERYWHERE. Six 15-packs, along with two pair of large lasers and LBX-2s comprise the armament on this mech. It also has ten tons of FF armor and double heat sinks. Surprisingly bling for a Periphery design.

JM6-DDa:
A Jihad-era refit of the -DD, the –DDa carries the traditional autocannon quartet, a pair of AC/5s and a pair of LAC/2s, as well as a fancy targeting computer. I have no clue what targeting computers will do in MWO, very much a wait-and-see deal.

Barely the Same Mech:

JM6-D3:
The Jagermech III is basically Victor Steiner-Davion’s “throw money at it to make it better” project aimed at turning the Jagermech from a glorified Gepardpanzer into a respectable and dangerous violent combat robot. It’s got dual PPCs, dual UAC/2s, Endo Steel, FF armor, twelve double heat sinks, and a massive 350XL engine. Here’s a quick-‘n-dirty refit of a K2 into something resembling this bot.

Wait what about the JM7- series?

There’s actually a whole suite of Jagermech variants that are five tons heavier than the normal JM6- series. These guys aren’t likely to be in MWO for quite some time, as they all feature FedCom Civil War gear.

Customization

The Jagermech is ripe for customization along the lines of the Cataphract-4X. Almost every JM6- has the capacity to go for quad AC/2s, or for the bold, quad AC/5s. Other prime customizations include cramming an AC/20 into each arm, an impossibility on the CTF-4X because of its lower arm actuators.

For the absolutely insane, the JM6-A could fit paired AC/20s or Gauss alongside dual SRM-6s to melt faces with a volley ever-so-close to the infamous Splatapult. The best part is that the AC/20 Jagermech can fit an extralight engine, because the guns are in the arms!

Other, less ambitious modifications include things like dual AC/10s, or maybe even quad machine guns, to make awesome noises while your teammates break down and cry at your foolishness.

Observations

While I'm willing to hold off on baseless speculation about the targeting computer, the existence of rocket launchers in Battletech points to a possible change (sort-of-buff) to SRMs: guidance. Rocket launchers fire totally unguided projectiles, whereas an SRM launcher fires a missile. Missiles are guided projectiles. Personally, I'd like to see SRMs be wire-guided, or have a lockon with very weak homing, so as to not displace SSRMs.

THE GUN IS GOOD
The Jagermech doesn’t have the best reputation about it, but I think it’ll be a fun addition to the lineup as a ballistics boat. It's kind of a shame that the Exterminator is mainly an energy boat, I could have made more ZARDOZ-based jokes here!

Edited by Wales Grey, 18 February 2013 - 01:53 PM.


#2 Redshift2k5

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:48 PM

The confirmed Jagermech variants are JM6-DD JM6-S JM6-A

http://mwomercs.com/...evs-19-answers/

Edited by Redshift2k5, 18 February 2013 - 01:51 PM.


#3 Wales Grey

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:50 PM

View PostRedshift2k5, on 18 February 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

The confirmed Jagermech variants are JM6-DD JM6-S JM6-A

Good to see my guesses were correct! (Not like it was hard, all the others use tech that's not out yet.)

#4 Lord Perversor

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:55 PM

I already stated when it was 1st announced about the probable config sporting dual Ac/20 and Xl engine for speed and weight saving.

Quite troublesome, since already a 2-3 Whackapult lance can wreack havoc quite easily, now figure a fast moving mech.

#5 Redshift2k5

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:55 PM

I wonder if you can build 2x PPC 4x AC2 on the DD

2x AC-20 plus max-sized XL engine is a given :D

Edited by Redshift2k5, 18 February 2013 - 01:56 PM.


#6 Elwood Blues

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:56 PM

I'm looking forward to the Jagermech but you are going to see fast Dual AC20 variants running around everywhere. You are going to see them running right next to Splatcats. One to tear open the armor and the other to deliver the killing blow.

#7 Wales Grey

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:01 PM

View PostRedshift2k5, on 18 February 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

I wonder if you can build 2x PPC 4x AC2 on the DD

Well, maybe? It's dead easy to mock up in SSW. Dunno how good it'll be, AC/2s and PPCs are both heat-hogs. Here's the ssw.txt.

#8 Lord Perversor

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:03 PM

i'll be happy if by any chance (i don;t think so but it is a possibility) the DD or S can mount 6x Ballistic weapons..

6x ac2 Jagermech incoming!!! the enemy won't feel nothing but the rain :D

#9 Redshift2k5

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:04 PM

6x ballistic would be fantastic

2 AC-20 4 machineguns ho!

#10 Lukoi Banacek

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:08 PM

Great write up. Makes me want one that much damned more. More DAKKA.

#11 One Medic Army

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:09 PM

View PostWales Grey, on 18 February 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Good to see my guesses were correct! (Not like it was hard, all the others use tech that's not out yet.)

Kind of boring though, since the DD and the S are essentially the same mech from an engine size/hardpoint perspective.
I wonder how they'll differentiate them.

#12 Monkey Bone

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:10 PM

View PostRedshift2k5, on 18 February 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

I wonder if you can build 2x PPC 4x AC2 on the DD

2x AC-20 plus max-sized XL engine is a given :D

Hold on...

If you can put 2xac20 on the arms, there must be a variant with 4 ballistic hardpoints.

4xuac5 here i come!

#13 Redshift2k5

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:12 PM

View PostJules Gonzales, on 18 February 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Hold on...

If you can put 2xac20 on the arms, there must be a variant with 4 ballistic hardpoints.

4xuac5 here i come!


Most Jagermechs come STOCK with four ballistic weapons.

#14 CDLord HHGD

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:13 PM

View PostRedshift2k5, on 18 February 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

6x ballistic would be fantastic

2 AC-20 4 machineguns ho!

2x UAC5 + 4xAC2.... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

#15 Kingdok

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

View PostJules Gonzales, on 18 February 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Hold on...

If you can put 2xac20 on the arms, there must be a variant with 4 ballistic hardpoints.

4xuac5 here i come!


Already mapped it out, fellas.... I'll tell you this one time: keep you heads down when you see me coming.

#16 Kyone Akashi

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:32 PM

Great write-up, I thoroughly enjoyed reading it and can't wait to see them in action now - especially the prophesized 2xAC20 variant!

View PostWales Grey, on 18 February 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

For those of you scratching your heads about this variant’s use of FF armor instead of Endo Steel, I don’t really have an answer for you. Swapping the guns and armor is easy enough for that to only count as a Class C Refit (Maintenance), something that’s relatively inexpensive and simple to do on a fleet of units, along the lines of upgrading an M1 Abrams to an M1A1 Abrams. Changing the engine type, however, is a Class E Refit (Factory), the same refit grade as swapping the standard chassis out for an endo-steel frame. Maybe there was just a better supply of FF armor? No one knows.
It's less a question of installing it but rather producing and repairing. Endo steel was extremely rare around the time this variant was introduced, and in addition to this was difficult to fix in the field, so it is no surprise that the production model "only" features FF armor. The sarna article goes into detail a bit.

Battletech and MWO players going for Endo Steel over Ferro-Fibrous is actually an oddity in conflict with the background - but mechanically, it is the better thing to do, and in MWO the difference between both upgrades is a meager ~20.000 c-bills. I continue to lobby for making Ferro-Fibrous more attractive by substantially increasing Endo cost in order to reflect its rarity. :D

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 18 February 2013 - 02:34 PM.


#17 Redshift2k5

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:34 PM

Many mechs feature FF when otherwise ES would've been a better build. not the first and won't be the last :D

#18 Ravennus

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:37 PM

I want 4 UAC5s...... my god, so badly.

The main problem, other than weight... will be where to put all that gosh darn AMMO?!

I run 2x UAC5 in my DDC, and need about 6 tons of ammo to make it work. 4x UAC5? OUCH

#19 Monkey Bone

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:39 PM

View PostRavennus, on 18 February 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

I want 4 UAC5s...... my god, so badly.

The main problem, other than weight... will be where to put all that gosh darn AMMO?!

I run 2x UAC5 in my DDC, and need about 6 tons of ammo to make it work. 4x UAC5? OUCH

Hey a catapult can run dual gauss with 4xmlas without problem, and yet maintains a steady 255xl.

But then of course it also has endosteel, which the jager will struggle to fit.

And just stash the ammo on legs, head, armor and then to sides. When one part is destroyed, you blow up like a firecracker

Edited by Jules Gonzales, 18 February 2013 - 02:40 PM.


#20 Wales Grey

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:43 PM

View PostKyone Akashi, on 18 February 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Battletech and MWO players going for Endo Steel over Ferro-Fibrous is actually an oddity in conflict with the background - but mechanically, it is the better thing to do, and in MWO the difference between both upgrades is a meager ~20.000 c-bills. I continue to lobby for making Ferro-Fibrous more attractive by substantially increasing Endo cost in order to reflect its rarity. :D

Instead of increasing cost, why not make FF armor take more damage to break, or give it a role beyond cutting weight?

The explanations of why FF over Endo is pretty close to what I guessed. It doesn't really seem to add up with all the other Endo-Steel mechs that showed up post-Helm Memory core though.





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