277 replies to this topic

[80Bit]

Fyrerock, on 16 February 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

If they are only keeping record of your wins and losses, how can they tell how good or bad you are for the pug game. I have 700 wins and 851 losses, but in many games I am in the top three for my group in damage. I would think my win loss ratio is similar too most pug players that never been in a pre-made, at all skill levels. For example today I was in a group where I did 600 plus damage and the next person did 180 damage and the rest did less then 100 damage, one person did 15, but my ELO score will go down at the same amount as the rest of the group.

You would think that adding both KD and damage done to win losses would give a better indicator to a person skill.

Fryerock, the only reason you, as a better than average player, still have more losses than wins, is the pre-made group factor. If there were no pre-made groups, almost everyone would have a near 50% win percentage. The ELO system will work, even off just wins and losses, because pre-made groups are not going to be placed with you in matches very often. Your win rate is going to get very close to 50%.

None of the ELO systems I have read about use kills, damage, score, or anything like that. It would not be balanced.

[Dirus Nigh]

Ok I think im starting to get it. Sorry if I'm coming across as dense. Thanks for the responses.

I am looking forward to this getting implemented. I want to see how it plays out.

[Vassago Rain]

Dirus Nigh, on 16 February 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Ok I think im starting to get it. Sorry if I'm coming across as dense. Thanks for the responses.

I am looking forward to this getting implemented. I want to see how it plays out.

75% of the playerbase will have a lot more fun. The rest are gonna have to adapt, and will see their 92922 K/D vaporize.

[80Bit]

Dirus Nigh, on 16 February 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

If after a handful of matches I start getting dropped with players on par with me and less with sub par ones I would be relieved. However if I am not being put against better players how will I gain skill? Can a person rise in ELO rank if he is put with a player group that will most likely result in a 50/50 win/loss? Would it be easier to rise in rank or lose rank?

Maybe their will be another mechanic in place for events. Hopefully the devs put in an 'event mode' option that will suspend ELO so every one has an equal chance to participate. Similar to how the devs say players could create private matches between merc units.

In an ELO system they still match you with people slightly higher and slightly lower, and occasionally people quite a bit higher or lower. Even if the match up is 50/50, you will still gain a little rating for a win, and continue to advance.

Vassago Rain, on 16 February 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

75% of the playerbase will have a lot more fun. The rest are gonna have to adapt, and will see their 92922 K/D vaporize.

Personally, if I were a PUG farmer I would be glad to finally get a challenge. I don't blame people for grouping, who would want to play in PUGS if you have access to, and are comfortable with, grouping. It's the poor match making that has created the problem.

But I am sure some players who think they are great are going to get a big shock.

[Fyrerock]

80Bit, on 16 February 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Fryerock, the only reason you, as a better than average player, still have more losses than wins, is the pre-made group factor. If there were no pre-made groups, almost everyone would have a near 50% win percentage. The ELO system will work, even off just wins and losses, because pre-made groups are not going to be placed with you in matches very often. Your win rate is going to get very close to 50%.

None of the ELO systems I have read about use kills, damage, score, or anything like that. It would not be balanced.

Ok now I understand, the odds are I am going to win more then I lose, when the change first happens, until my score becomes high enough to place me with pre-made for most games, and at that time my life will get harder.

[Vlad Ward]

80Bit, on 16 February 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

Personally, if I were a PUG farmer I would be glad to finally get a challenge.


But I am sure some players who think they are great are going to get a big shock.

People said all of this when Phase 2 was introduced. Then people realized they didn't actually want to be challenged, they just wanted to win games where there were "real bragging rights". When they found those opponents and got mercilessly beaten into the ground, they cried Cheese and went back to business as usual.

Granted, they won't have much of a choice with Phase 3, as the only way to reset your ELO is to make a new account that you can't transfer anything to/from. I just find the symmetry ironic.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 16 February 2013 - 10:35 PM.

[WVAnonymous]

I'm looking forward to being upgraded from a cash crop for farmers to... anything better than cash crop.

[lsp]

In my opinion, not including your personal stats like k/d ratio is a mistake. Winning and losing has nothing to do with your personal skill, that's team based. And even in games that I lose, I still get multiple kills and high damage.(most of the time)
This will change nothing, there will still be better players matched against bad players.
I have a 5.0 k/d ratio(had it's 4.80 now) and I lose games while pugging all the time. Probably 50% of the time.

Edited by lsp, 16 February 2013 - 10:48 PM.

[Volume]

armyof1, on 16 February 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

So does anyone know if they'll use those new game scores as a tool to decide how good/bad a player you are? Because the new ELO system can't be totally based on only win/losses I hope? Because that system would be seriously flawed for a team game, where your team-mates change from game to game.

Inb4 20 threads about "elo hell" like some other F2P game I play.

Also, people will start using Mount Tryhard™ as descriptions of themselves, since ELO rating is actually still hidden from players, it seems.

ie: "Tier 1.5 player looking for team to reach elite godlike competitive master race T1 status, serious PM inquiries only~!"

[80Bit]

lsp, on 16 February 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

In my opinion, not including your personal stats like k/d ratio is a mistake. Winning and losing has nothing to do with your personal skill, that's team based. And even in games that I lose, I still get multiple kills and high damage.(most of the time)
This will change nothing, there will still be better players matched against bad players.
I have a 5.0 k/d ratio(had it's 4.80 now) and I lose games while pugging all the time. Probably 50% of the time.

If you are a PUG player maintaining a 5.0 K/D ratio, ELO is indeed going to change a lot for you. It does not matter if your team mates drag you down, if you are that good, then you are going to influence teams that have you to win more than they should based on the other players. Your ELO will quickly rise because of this, until you no longer have team mates that drag you down, and you are playing with peers. Unfortunately for you, with a 5 K/D ratio peers is going to mean pre-made groups most of the time.

[MadcatX]

The only downside to elo is the same one I've witnessed in every other game that uses elo: The higher an elo rating you have, the longer you may have to possibly wait in queue since there will be less and less players at higher ratings until the game starts attempting to place you in a match in a lower elo team. How long matchmaking waits before attempting to match you up with a lower elo team is the key element, too long and you might end up with long wait queues for top tier, too short and you'll notice a marked increase of higher-rated elo players dropping in lower elo teams.

This is a possibility but not a certainty.

[Vassago Rain]

80Bit, on 16 February 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

In an ELO system they still match you with people slightly higher and slightly lower, and occasionally people quite a bit higher or lower. Even if the match up is 50/50, you will still gain a little rating for a win, and continue to advance.



Personally, if I were a PUG farmer I would be glad to finally get a challenge. I don't blame people for grouping, who would want to play in PUGS if you have access to, and are comfortable with, grouping. It's the poor match making that has created the problem.

But I am sure some players who think they are great are going to get a big shock.

http://mwomercs.com/...w-world-begins/

[80Bit]

MadcatX, they did mention that the match maker will make the ELO matching gap wider and wider if match making is taking to long. I've never been high enough in an ELO game to actually have this problem, but I suppose I can spare a tear or two for the uber elite who have to wait, haha.

[Vassago Rain]

Volume, on 16 February 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

Inb4 20 threads about "elo hell" like some other F2P game I play.

Also, people will start using Mount Tryhard™ as descriptions of themselves, since ELO rating is actually still hidden from players, it seems.

ie: "Tier 1.5 player looking for team to reach elite godlike competitive master race T1 status, serious PM inquiries only~!"

It's better to have a rating system than not one at all.

[Vassago Rain]

I predict this will be the MWO lingo of the future.

Hey, freeplayer scum. Tryhard 2 here. Double-D streakboat looking for drop. XL? XL. 61 kmph strike scouter. Ninjacap those golds. No steering wheels allowed. Essentially, we're no longer speaking english, and haven't been for a very long time.

[Asmosis]

so long as it fixes the problem of mixing teams in with pugs should be fine, otherwise done with the game till they get that right (maybe CW if ELO doesnt address it).

[JeepStuff]

Great post, OP. This is what I predict too, and I hope it all works out this way. Fingers crossed.

Also FYI, it's not "ELO" it's just "Elo". Elo is a guy's name, not an acronym. People get that wrong all the time.

[Rift Hawk]

I'm just basing this post of the thread title. I don't have much time to post so I'll get right to it.

While I fully support the new matching system that will soon be a reality, I have some worries about it also. The main worry, being that players will run into more instances of not being able to find games. Your essentially taking half or more of the player base and saying, you can't play with these people. Your either too good or not good enough. Perhaps there are currently enough players that this won't cause an issue.

Perhaps I'm just wrong in my understanding of the concept. If so, feel free to let me know.

[Vassago Rain]

Imperial X, on 17 February 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

I'm just basing this post of the thread title. I don't have much time to post so I'll get right to it.

While I fully support the new matching system that will soon be a reality, I have some worries about it also. The main worry, being that players will run into more instances of not being able to find games. Your essentially taking half or more of the player base and saying, you can't play with these people. Your either too good or not good enough. Perhaps there are currently enough players that this won't cause an issue.

Perhaps I'm just wrong in my understanding of the concept. If so, feel free to let me know.

This isn't gonna happen, because it branches out if it fails to properly match your powerlevel. So 1000, no one's on. It goes to 1000-1200. No one? 1300-1400!

You ge the idea.

[Rift Hawk]

Asmosis, on 16 February 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

so long as it fixes the problem of mixing teams in with pugs should be fine, otherwise done with the game till they get that right (maybe CW if ELO doesnt address it).

The way I understood it, was that this new matching system was not doing anything in relation to adding premades and pugs together. It will still be the same if I read it right. The only difference, is that if one is added, it won't be thrown in with players far worse at the game than the players in the premade.

Vassago Rain, on 17 February 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

This isn't gonna happen, because it branches out if it fails to properly match your powerlevel. So 1000, no one's on. It goes to 1000-1200. No one? 1300-1400!

You ge the idea.

Awesome, good to hear they compensated for a potential problem.

Also.........my power level........yeah its over 9000.

Edited by Imperial X, 17 February 2013 - 12:43 AM.