49 replies to this topic

[Escef]

Harrison Kelly, on 18 February 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

2) This build is hella slow. And a slow K2 is a dead K2. I spend most of my time in a K2, and the amount of focus those things draw is incredible.

More than any other, this is an important point. People focus on A1 and K2 cats expecting evil things. A1s mostly because the only reliable build is the SRMcat, which is nasty. K2s because it takes effort to put together one that isn't nasty.

However, I advise against XL engines in Catapults unless it makes you stupid fast. I've lost the torso guns on my K2 to crits long before my arm mounted lasers go silent so many times that I no longer place any stock in the idea of the pult's supposedly near invisible side torsos.

[Scorcher One]

You really do not get it, right? Your build has strong weapons - that for sure, but your build also does not have the abillity to USE that weapons. *sighs* Is that SO hard to understand?

Edited by Trishena, 18 February 2013 - 01:32 PM.

[Escef]

Trishena, on 18 February 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

You really do not get it, right? Your build has strong weapons - that for sure, but your build also does not have the abillity to USE that weapons. *sighs* Is that SO hard to understand?

Though I disagree with a lot of what Trishena has said, he is correct that your build is too slow. Your armor is fine for the chassis, the firepower is great, the heat situation is manageable. The problem is that your pocket assault is too slow. Now, the AC20 can still do respectable damage out to 500 odd meters, but that can easily turn into a waste of ammo. The larges, however do compliment that. But your lack of mobility will result in being stuck at mid to long range, where your machine is less fearsome.

As I said, drop the mediums and 2 sinks and toss in a 260 engine. If you want to get really saucy, pull the AC20 for an AC10 or a pair of 5ers. I can't suggest an XL engine, based upon my experience, but you could drop in a 315 XL and a pair of UAC5, which would combine with the larges to make a very mobile long-range, direct fire-support unit that can still hold its own up close.

[Dishevel]

Trishena, on 18 February 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

You really do not get it, right? Your build has strong weapons - that for sure, but your build also does not have the abillity to USE that weapons. *sighs* Is that SO hard to understand?

But it does.
The LLs are not used much up close.
Using Torso mounted MLs and AC/20.
If I am getting a little low in the heat dept I hit with the LLs.
I use the LLs mostly when harassing from range with cover or when my heat allows at closer range.
For a mech that is the walking dead it seams to be doing well.
6 games in it now. 400 - 700 damage per. 1 death. 1 - 2 kills and 2 - 5 assists a game.
As much as you hate it. Even though it is not a Dual AC/20 or Dual Gauss boom cat. It is effective.
I like having the LLs. I like reaching out and "touching" from range.
I make sure that when I announce myself that way I have cover for when I draw aggro.
2MLs and AC/20 all torso mounted is hard hitting at close range. The LLs give me the ability to draw aggro from my team mates and stay relatively safe.
I have run the Boom Cat and the Splat Cat. Both are really fun and can be very effective.
Played correctly I believe that this guy can be effective in a team.

[Escef]

Y'know what would settle all of this? Build it and run it, and tell us how it works out. (Video would be a nice bonus.) It may be that it plays into your preferred playstyle so well that you do better with it than in "better" machines.

EDIT: Just double checked the first post, and the OP is stating that he's running the machine with good results. So, we can analyze as much as we like, he's doing well. And in the end, that's what matters. (I still think you should try my suggested alterations, but don't take them as gospel.)

Edited by Escef, 18 February 2013 - 01:50 PM.

[Dishevel]

Escef, on 18 February 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Y'know what would settle all of this? Build it and run it, and tell us how it works out. (Video would be a nice bonus.) It may be that it plays into your preferred playstyle so well that you do better with it than in "better" machines.

EDIT: Just double checked the first post, and the OP is stating that he's running the machine with good results. So, we can analyze as much as we like, he's doing well. And in the end, that's what matters. (I still think you should try my suggested alterations, but don't take them as gospel.)

Made a few changes. Will see how it works.
Threw in the 250STD. Not much faster, but ...
Armor is the same 13 DHS
1xLL 2xMPLs and AC/20.
Will see how the changes go.

[Scorcher One]

Quote

Though I disagree with a lot of what Trishena has said

She....
Well, id does not matter if you agree or disagree, your build is too slow and unable to effectivly use the weapons. It's a build to lose. Fact!

Quote

Armor is the same 13 DHS
1xLL 2xMPLs and AC/20.

Sounds much better.

Edited by Trishena, 18 February 2013 - 02:12 PM.

[Harrison Kelly]

The ability to squeeze good results out of bad build in a PUG drop is irrelevant to me. If that's what you want, fine.
But don't make a thread advertising it as a good build, because it's not. It's a strictly inferior version of an Atlas, or an AC 20 Cat, or a 4xLL Cat.

Edited by Harrison Kelly, 18 February 2013 - 02:17 PM.

[Escef]

Harrison Kelly, on 18 February 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

The ability to squeeze good results out of bad build in a PUG drop is irrelevant to me. If that's what you want, fine.
But don't make a thread advertising it as a good build, because it's not. It's a strictly inferior version of an Atlas, or an AC 20 Cat, or a 4xLL Cat.

It's a pocket assault is what it is. In the same way that the stock CN9-A or AL, or any stock Hunchie, is a pocket heavy. Pocket (next weight class up) can work, if driven right.

Trishena, on 18 February 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

She....
Well, id does not matter if you agree or disagree, your build is too slow and unable to effectivly use the weapons. It's a build to lose. Fact!

It's not my build, it's the OP's. As for you being a "she", it's not really relevant. Besides, this is the internet, where men are boys, girls are men, and 14 year olds are FBI agents.

[Dishevel]

Trishena, on 18 February 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

She....
Well, id does not matter if you agree or disagree, your build is too slow and unable to effectivly use the weapons. It's a build to lose. Fact!

Except that I was able to use the weapons.
Not only could I use them it was fairly effective and a little fun.
I run a 4G, 4J, 4SP and all of the Cats. Ran stalkers for a bit as well and have a YLW.
Have run SplatCat and BoomCat designs. Do well in them .
Though most of the game in them is getting yourself into a situation where you can be really effective.
Seems that if I placed myself well I could hit well at Medium-Long range and do some real damage up close.
Putting 2xLLs on a target at 500 - 600 meters tucking into cover and hitting again on targets did enough damage to turn them.
Hitting again from the other side of cover would move em.
Some idiots will stop their pursuit of their current target to come and get me. Pulling from 500 - 600 meters and having me get 3 good shots at them from range while they peel of their current target is an effective use of the LLs for my team.
When they turn the corner on on me and get the AC/20, 2xMLs and 2xLLs it hurts. Then I can trade blows with just the MLs and AC/20 forever while dropping heat. Every 3rd shot I can hit with the LLs again.
The trick with this build is to play it. I never found myself needing to re position any long distance to be of use to my team.
Not saying that this is a one on one mech. It is not built to do well like that. I have played many mechs that are superior when in their element. This I think needs to be played a little different.
I can tell you this.
The build was enjoyable to run.
Had some measure of success with it.
It also had a rhythm to the play that seemed natural.
Find cover, Poke out hit a target at range, hit until he starts to turn and get into cover, Hit target 2 from another position.
Pull back, Hit target 1 again maybe see a third enemy to nail. get 2 of them coming in. Back off to a cover further behind me as the team picks at my targets. Let out an AC/20 round at a range where it hit for 10 - 12 damage well placed on someone running straight away or toward me.

It is hard to describe the way it felt to play.

Like some kind of dance with multiple partners in an old Musical where impossibly everyone seems to be at the right place.
I think that opening up to wider ranges allows a less focused yet still effective and fun style of play.