33 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Yes, yes, I know. "Why are you hating on my 'mech!?" Well, because it's my 'mech, too. I've unlocked elite masteries on all three variants (the extra module slot isn't enough of an inducement to get to Master) and I love playing the Spider. It's awesome to be able to jump around like that, and it's great to have all that mobility AND ECM. I am the king of the squirrels, and if I set my mind to evasion, I'm very hard to kill

"So, what's the problem," right? If I love piloting the 'mech (and I do,) why am I telling people not to buy it? Well, it's really simple: the Spider is the best scout 'mech in the game - and also the least powerful. For lights in general, you have jump jets, firepower, and ECM - pick two. The Spider has jump jets and ECM - but less firepower than other lights. The Jenner can carry jump jets and has a lot of weapon hardpoints, but no ECM. The Raven L lacks jump jets, and is in all other ways superior or equal to every other light 'mech in the game. So in general, while I can kill the other, better-armed lights (and have!)... I usually have to run. Particularly since they can carry streaks and I can't. In short Spider is the best scout in the game at the price of being under-armed. Nothing is significantly faster or more maneuverable, but the tradeoff is that you can't reliably take on other lights in a straight-up fight (and no, your maneuverability isn't superior enough to let you even the odds.)

So the point of all this is: If you're making your decision based on a guide, Don't Buy a Spider. Buy a Raven instead, and join the endless ranks of soulless Raven Streakers. Heck, buy a Commando, even. But unless you're in a regular team that wants a true scout, you're better off going with a 'mech that's not named after an arachnid - at least until the new maps get here. PuG teams often do not support or make use of the information brought in by a scout, so you're in for a lot of thankless days. If, after considering all that, you still want to play a Spider - by all means give the 'mech a try! And look for mine on the battlefield; I named her "muffet."

[Skribs]

Even without being a true scout, the mobility of the speed/JJ combo and the ability to hide with ECM means you can survive pretty well.

But yeah, I agree, most people probably should start with a Jenner. Raven 3L is nice...the other ravens are too slow. In order to level up to elite quick, the Jenner is probably the best bet.

[Void Angel]

I survive and do pretty well most times, but it's a crap shoot. The jump jets mean that I can get over things, but there's very few obstacle on most maps that will slow down a Jenner, or even a Raven 3L or Commando, for long. Even if they don't have jets, they just go around. If I get an easymode streaker on my tail, it's like I'm not even allowed to fight back - and those "skilled" light-hunters know that I'm the weakest 'mech in the game. They'll chase me all over creation to get their free C-bills and exp. So I'm seriously thinking about mothballing my Spider once I get the skills I want, and picking up a Raven until I start doing dedicated team matchups.

[dbnator]

Hey ya first of all i have now 2 Spiders on MAster and SPider 5K Elite (must sell him for mechbay ) And i Love all three Variants i like the 5V more then the 5D, but we all know the Spider is a Mech in this Moment in the game to use it on PUG's fights, in 8vs8 i must use my Raven 3L, and i hate him, he is big, and turn slower then my lovly spider, i can kill the "Epic supafreaking nice ecm raven's" with the Spider cause they cant aim u with Streaks cause u are to fast, i see it to often that my enemy Raven didnt hit me Streaks cause im to fast for him ( lololo), so back to theme:

I agreed that the Spider is the Best scout in the game i named it "Support light with ECM" (SPDR-5D) Cause my have 3 ML+Ecm+JJ I stay by my team and hunt light's like Jenner with out Streaks, or Commanods and other SPiders, and Ravens only when i know i win.I am Faster then other mehc's cause i can jump over all thinks, Raven must go arround it so i have more time.


I think the SPider is Hard to play in this moment in the game, in the future maybe it would be easier, but not know, evryone must try it, before they say Spider is ****.


Sorry for bad english first Post in English Forum :x

[LordBraxton]

Void Angel, on 18 February 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

Yes, yes, I know. "Why are you hating on my 'mech!?" Well, because it's my 'mech, too. I've unlocked elite masteries on all three variants (the extra module slot isn't enough of an inducement to get to Master) and I love playing the Spider. It's awesome to be able to jump around like that, and it's great to have all that mobility AND ECM. I am the king of the squirrels, and if I set my mind to evasion, I'm very hard to kill

"So, what's the problem," right? If I love piloting the 'mech (and I do,) why am I telling people not to buy it? Well, it's really simple: the Spider is the best scout 'mech in the game - and also the least powerful. For lights in general, you have jump jets, firepower, and ECM - pick two. The Spider has jump jets and ECM - but less firepower than other lights. The Jenner can carry jump jets and has a lot of weapon hardpoints, but no ECM. The Raven L lacks jump jets, and is in all other ways superior or equal to every other light 'mech in the game. So in general, while I can kill the other, better-armed lights (and have!)... I usually have to run. Particularly since they can carry streaks and I can't. In short Spider is the best scout in the game at the price of being under-armed. Nothing is significantly faster or more maneuverable, but the tradeoff is that you can't reliably take on other lights in a straight-up fight (and no, your maneuverability isn't superior enough to let you even the odds.)

So the point of all this is: If you're making your decision based on a guide, Don't Buy a Spider. Buy a Raven instead, and join the endless ranks of soulless Raven Streakers. Heck, buy a Commando, even. But unless you're in a regular team that wants a true scout, you're better off going with a 'mech that's not named after an arachnid - at least until the new maps get here. PuG teams often do not support or make use of the information brought in by a scout, so you're in for a lot of thankless days. If, after considering all that, you still want to play a Spider - by all means give the 'mech a try! And look for mine on the battlefield; I named her "muffet."

spider is not credit to team.

a disciplined raven 3L pilot can scout just as well as a spider jump jets be damned

so if I ever find a disciplined raven 3L pilot I'll let you know

all ye lights are just getting torn open by my big black D anyway. CN9D that is

[Kaeseblock]

Never underestimate the damage-dealing capabilities of the Spider.
Especially if this nasty SDR-5D is equipped with JJ, ECM and a freaking ER-PPC.

A friend of mine constantly wreacks havoc with this build. Last time I saw him play his Spider he always got 3-5 kills, about 500 DMG and almost beat a Stalker in a close-up fight (both were the last mechs standing).

[So who took Pilot Name as a name]

Kaeseblock, on 19 February 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

Never underestimate the damage-dealing capabilities of the Spider.
Especially if this nasty SDR-5D is equipped with JJ, ECM and a freaking ER-PPC.

Funny you should say that, since I've built 4 Spiders so far on mwo.smurfy-net and I couldn't think of anything ELSE than shove an ER PPC for the 5D haha

I don't know personally how effective that is since don't have the mechbays to buy them yet. I just figured, since I considered the Spider as my next mech, I better start seeing if I can properly outfit the only 3 we have!

[Ursh]

I run my 5D with an erppc.

I can hit things with an erppc fairly decently, so it works for me.

[xengk]

So who took Pilot Name as a name, on 19 February 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

Funny you should say that, since I've built 4 Spiders so far on mwo.smurfy-net and I couldn't think of anything ELSE than shove an ER PPC for the 5D haha

I don't know personally how effective that is since don't have the mechbays to buy them yet. I just figured, since I considered the Spider as my next mech, I better start seeing if I can properly outfit the only 3 we have!

I lost it after seeing that signature.

[Stringburka]

I think the 5D is a fine 'mech, but not so much the others. For those who are good with an ERPPC you can do nasty stuff (will be a lot more useful when PPC's break ECM too), and for those who prefer lasers a setup of 2xML+1xLL, or 3xMPL works well.

Personally I roll with 2xML+1xLL, I like being able to attack from a bit of range but ain't good enough of a shot for ERPPC at 150 kph.

[So who took Pilot Name as a name]

xengk, on 19 February 2013 - 03:15 AM, said:

I lost it after seeing that signature.

What can I say, I love spiders!

[Gregory Owen]

whine somewhere else. i had a match where i did 645 damage in my 5d yesterday with 2mpls and 1 ML

It's not the mech, it's you.

[1453 R]

Can you do well with a Spider, Gregory? Of course you can.

Can a Jenner do everything a Spider can (save for ECM) much more effectively than the Spider can? Absolutely.

The 5D is currently the only Spider variant worth playing. ECM and three beam hardpoints give it just enough traction that a skilled pilot could put it to good use in a match. The stated 1x Large laser, 2x Medium laser configuration is pretty much the most firepower the Spider can pack without making far too many compromises. A 5D running the listed beam configuration and ECM has just enough weight to do so with a max-rated engine and Endo Steel without having to shave armor or jump jets - though it doesn't get any extra armor, either.

The 5K's quadruple ballistic hardpoints are a joke. Even when machine guns get their buff, those four hardpoints combined won't make up the loss of even one additional beam hardpoint, let alone the two beam hardpoints it loses to the 5D. The 5V's sole armament is a pair of center torso-mounted beam hardpoints. The most firepower the 'Mech is physically capable of mounting is a pair of medium pulse lasers. That's it. It also doesn't have any ECM to cover itself with either, and is thus just as visible to its recon targets as they are to it. The only way to fight back outside knife range is to mount a single large laser in that hardpoint rather than two mediums - and at that point you're no better off than a 5D with its right arm pre-shot off taking the ECM with it.

There's no getting around the fact that the Spider is undergunned. Moderately, in the 5D variant. Horrifically in either of its other two. It's fast, and jumpy, and probably a blast to pilot, but that doesn't make it a powerhouse. Is it a very credible threat for base/resource caps? Certainly - "Damn Ninja Spiders" are a thing with me and my buddies for a reason. Is it a credible threat in a fight? Not really.

[Stringburka]

I'm curious to see how my 5-K will perform now after the quite impressive machine gun boost. 5 crit DPS? That's ******* fantastic.

Edited by Stringburka, 19 February 2013 - 01:27 PM.

[1453 R]

...okay, maybe the four machine guns on the 5K might be worth an extra beam hardpoint. Provided you can get someone else to open the can for you. That is honestly about three times more buff than I figured machine guns had a prayer in hell of getting.

Still! Better idea: put two machine guns under the Gauss rifle in your DRG-5N (which, by the way, is now finally a Dragon chassis with a point to its existence) and wreck the enemy's guts with that. While being able to actually get at their guts in the first place, to boot!

[Stringburka]

1453 R, on 19 February 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

...okay, maybe the four machine guns on the 5K might be worth an extra beam hardpoint. Provided you can get someone else to open the can for you. That is honestly about three times more buff than I figured machine guns had a prayer in hell of getting.

Agreed, you need someone to open the can, but 4 MG's will do HUGE damage to components. As an example, an AC-20 in a side torso has 18 hp after the hp buff. The MG's will deal 4*(10/12)*10*(.5*.39+.5*2*.22+.5*3*.06)=16.83 damage per second on average, completely ripping the AC-20 in a little over a second. Meanwhile, another AC-20 will have 35% chance to blow it on the first shot and if that fails has to wait for another 4 seconds. A PPC will take an average of 5.05 dps from the machineguns, dying in two seconds.

As a comparison, a single machinegun has the same critical DPS as FIVE MEDIUM LASERS. Even if we ignore the cooldown on medium lasers (because you might need to hit and run), a half-ton MG will deal the same crit damage as one and a half ML do while firing.

So, with good teamwork, the machineguns will be ******* awesome, at least on paper. I'll see how it works out when the connection issues have been resolved.

Edited by Stringburka, 19 February 2013 - 01:35 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

I have no problem dishing out damage with my 5D Spider. 3 medium lasers and an ECM have served me well, and my best game with one had me at 7 kills and over 1000 damage.

True that the Streak Raven is the toughest opponent for a Spider. To survive, you have to work those jump jets, jink, and throttle hop to make the raven lose lock, all while maintaining accurate laser fire. NOT a trick for your average pilot.

[Void Angel]

Kaeseblock, on 19 February 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

Never underestimate the damage-dealing capabilities of the Spider.
Especially if this nasty SDR-5D is equipped with JJ, ECM and a freaking ER-PPC.

A friend of mine constantly wreacks havoc with this build. Last time I saw him play his Spider he always got 3-5 kills, about 500 DMG and almost beat a Stalker in a close-up fight (both were the last mechs standing).

I've had 500+ damage games with my Spider. But all it takes is one Streak Whor Skilled Raven Pilot to completely shut me down. He's just as fast as I am, and carries two-three times the weaponry. I can beat down a lot of lights - but a player in a Raven, commando, or Jenner using Streaks will still squash me - and they don't even have to be as good as I am to do it.

As for scout efficiency, a Raven L definitely cannot scout as well as a Spider's mobility allows - but while there is a clear difference between the two, the massive disparity in firepower more than makes up the difference in the Raven's favor. That's the most frustrating thing about running into a Raven: I'm facing a light 'mech with more armor which can swat me down in a fight - and unless I'm nearby certain terrain features, I cannot even get away from it.

Again, don't get me wrong here: I love the Spider. But its inability to compete with other lights (mostly due to the "Streak Gap") makes it an iffy proposition. I do well with it, but I also end a lot of matches pretty frustrated: all it takes is one 4-man Raven drop and I'm not allowed to play the game any more. When every light 'mech in the game will drop whatever it's doing to fearlessly chase you to the ends of the earth, you know you're playing the gimped chassis. If you still like the challenge, by all means go for it! I just don't want anyone to go in unwarned.

[Skribs]

I think someone summed it up nicely above. You can have jump jets, ECM, and weapons on a light mech...well, you can have 2 of 3. I think the Spider shines in groups, and it's a lot of fun, but I will agree it wouldn't be my recommendation to myself if I were starting again.

[Valdemaar]

So who took Pilot Name as a name, on 19 February 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

Funny you should say that, since I've built 4 Spiders so far on mwo.smurfy-net and I couldn't think of anything ELSE than shove an ER PPC for the 5D haha

I don't know personally how effective that is since don't have the mechbays to buy them yet. I just figured, since I considered the Spider as my next mech, I better start seeing if I can properly outfit the only 3 we have!

As the owner of a 5D outfitted with an ER PPC, it is a terrifying machine at times. However in my experience the only two mechs that have consistently trumped me is the Commando-2D and Raven-3L. Otherwise, I'm not terribly afraid to get in close combat with any other mech. Using JJ's for maneuverability you can do some impressive trick shots and if you have good aim then go for whichever torso is weakest.

Personally, I think with the machine gun buff the 5K might have some potential as a crit seeker. I ran a 4xMG with LPL when it was released and it was highly amusing if ineffective.