23 replies to this topic

[jay35]

By tying everyone down to their starting point bases, you're ruining the tactical benefit of having a larger map, and guaranteeing people are going to complain about its size and how many games end in stalemates or cap losses because there's no ability to have a proper battle out in the countryside like many of us are looking for.

This (from the patch notes) is possibly the worst thing one could read in relation to a new, larger map:

Quote

Stray too far from your base and you risk being flanked, as slower Mechs will find they will have quite the trek to get across the battlefield. Be sure to bring your ranged weapons, small lasers won't cut it here!

Don't go too far from your starting point? How utterly contrary to the whole purpose of a larger map.

Quote

Isn't it a bit early to complain about a map you haven't even played yet?

Not at all when the problem already exists on the current maps and will only be greater on a larger map.

We already have reduced-strength battles because each team is essentially forced to leave one mech behind at their base cap point to help slow any cap attempt. On a larger map that just becomes more imperative and likely requires at least two mechs left behind.

As it stands, you'll almost never see proper full-strength battles on large maps until cap points are disabled until X number of minutes of gameplay have expired (i.e., caps only become active for 2 minutes before the end of the match or something similar). That way the caps still serve a purpose but don't detract from having a proper battle with all your team's units engaged.

Edited by jay35, 19 February 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[Snowcrow]

Isn't it a bit early to complain about a map you haven't even played yet?
Also, team death match is comming I believe.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

Conquest.

[Hobo Dan]

Narcisoldier, on 19 February 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Conquest.

Yes. If this map is as big as they say, conquest could really shine here, especially in 12v12.

[shintakie]

Narcisoldier, on 19 February 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Conquest.

I'm expectin non ECM mechs to finally have a purpose in Alpine conquest and to also really punish those slow Assaults.

I am a little worried that this will continue the push to make slow mediums obsolete though >.>

[HighlandCoo]

I havent seen the map yet. Have you?

[CygnusX7]

Seems that very intelligent people play this game. Unfortunately, a byproduct of intelligence is thinking too much.
Lets try it first!

[Livewyr]

Don't stand still. Guard your base.

Play the game.

[Adridos]

Play conquest, we tend to simply dish it out 98% of the time.

Not quite there, but still prefferable for a large map.

[jay35]

Snowcrow, on 19 February 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

Isn't it a bit early to complain about a map you haven't even played yet?
Also, team death match is comming I believe.

Not at all when the problem already exists on the current maps and will only be greater on a larger map.

We already have reduced-strength battles because each team is essentially forced to leave one mech behind at their base cap point to help slow any cap attempt. On a larger map that just becomes more imperative and likely requires at least two mechs left behind.

As it stands, you'll almost never see proper full-strength battles on large maps until cap points are disabled until X number of minutes of gameplay have expired (i.e., caps only become active for 2 minutes before the end of the match or something similar). That way the caps still serve a purpose but don't detract from having a proper battle with all your team's units engaged.

Edited by jay35, 19 February 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[Mr Mantis]

Team death match? I thought that was the only game mode.
No i think if people complain about the size of the map they need to stop, unless it is still too small.
Yay for scouting having a purpose.

[Davers]

People cried for larger maps. Now we have them and everyone is going 'QQ It's Too Big!'

[Snowpaw]

Livewyr, on 19 February 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Don't stand still. Guard your base.

Play the game.

What he said, Learn to play more then just zerg. Tactics, theres more then one way

[shintakie]

Davers, on 19 February 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

People cried for larger maps. Now we have them and everyone is going 'QQ It's Too Big!'

Who is everyone? The only one complainin is the OP?

[jay35]

Nope, I'm pre-empting the complaining about the map size by noting that the map is not too big, it's the game types available that can negatively impact the experience, if anything does.

Davers, on 19 February 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

People cried for larger maps. Now we have them and everyone is going 'QQ It's Too Big!'

Yep, basically the tl;dr of this thread is: "In before the QQ'ing that the map is too big". Which is what will happen when people get upset that they can't defend their cap point. Maybe PGI's goal is to get people to hate larger maps so they don't have to make as many of them.

Snowpaw, on 19 February 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

Tactics, theres more then one way

What you're missing is that the variety of viable tactics is severely reduced or inhibited by the requirement to leave a portion of your team stuck back at the starting base cap point.

Edited by jay35, 19 February 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[Bubba Wilkins]

jay35, on 19 February 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

Not at all when the problem already exists on the current maps and will only be greater on a larger map.

We already have reduced-strength battles because each team is essentially forced to leave one mech behind at their base cap point to help slow any cap attempt. On a larger map that just becomes more imperative and likely requires at least two mechs left behind.

As it stands, you'll almost never see proper full-strength battles on large maps until cap points are disabled until X number of minutes of gameplay have expired (i.e., caps only become active for 2 minutes before the end of the match or something similar). That way the caps still serve a purpose but don't detract from having a proper battle with all your team's units engaged.

The problem exists because most games lack anyone effectively scouting and the team either commits to one side of the map blindly or ends up getting spread out. All of which are side effects of not communicating with your team mates.

Basic TDM has no place in a large map because it leads to trolls hiding out and otherwise prolonging a loss without some sort of secondary winning condition.

You have two objectives: Kill the enemy, defend this house.

[zhajin]

I like the potential of larger maps, it will change game play. However since the map you get is still random, I do not see it working well. Most will still prep for small maps, as that will be the vast majority, 80-86%(?) depending on how they count maps. Thus a lot of players are going to end up hating the bigger map.

eventually more large maps, drops ships and possibly other changes will alter game play, but for now its just going to be a pain depeniding on your play style.

Edited by zhajin, 19 February 2013 - 11:33 AM.

[Krazyjim]

shintakie, on 19 February 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

Who is everyone? The only one complainin is the OP?

So... Do you mean to say the OP is some sort of bundle of sticks?

[Pyrometheus]

I haven't seen the map yet, but I have read the dev's description of it. And, I must say, I love the idea of adding maps that will require new strategies and tactics, and maps which will allow certain subsets of weapons to be actually meaningful again.

But......

Since the preponderance of maps we get to play on will be the "old" maps with short sightlines, lots of cover, and limited paths to the enemy, the bulk of player Mechs are going to be rigged for those conditions and that will render moot the stated advantages and purpose of a map like Alpine.

If "no one" is rigging for a long range battle map, and we have no way of knowing that is the map we're going to draw, it kind of beggars the point of loading the map in.

At least, that's what I'm thinking of it.

I love that they're doing it but...without some supporting tools allowing players to select that kind of map, it's going be a bunch of Mechs running around not able to really take advantage of the map features and just trying to get the match over with so they can "get back to a good map".

[Mystere]

Davers, on 19 February 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

People cried for larger maps. Now we have them and everyone is going 'QQ It's Too Big!'

Well, you can't please some people at all.