483 replies to this topic

[Karl Marlow]

I've stopped playing personally. I gave it a shot the first couple of days and I've played maybe 4 matches in the following 2 weeks. The mismatched teams are a deal breaker for me.

I honestly don't care how much better, worse, or equal my opponent is. What annoys me is this stacked deck effect. If my opponents are of equal skill to me and my team then being out tonned puts us at a handicap. Just match us by weight class like you were before this last patch. That worked fine. We are dropping in random matches. We aren't doing some kind of ranked matches for some sort of BS Tournament ladder.

Edited by ThomasMarik, 04 March 2013 - 12:48 PM.

[Sh4dow78]

What to hell is this ?


Its not like a 1st time, its not like onetime happend, its CONSTANT ppl sync drop 2x4ppl with setup like this.. U ballanced game by ELO but u forgot to balance it by mech weight, u just CANT beat team who have 6-7 atlases u just CANT if u dont have same setup as they, the just go and kill all on their way...


Same crap is when u meet 2x4ppl with raven 3l or other fast and furious... seriously? they all use cap modules and just run for cap. Its suppose to be fun ? not to mention they get crapy 25k.

U really need to do something to prteven ppl with sync drop bcoz they simply ABUSE game weaknes atm and for me is same as cheating. And u need to make weight balance other way there is no other way to play but only if u have friends. PUG games sux so much its only 2way we smack them or they smack us i was newer in an equal game whare skill determinate who win. And not to mention all those stupid builds with 4/6 ppc or other crap who can 1shoot u from 700m away.

Edited by Scarface1978, 04 March 2013 - 02:17 PM.

[Aratan Aenor]

Battle. Value. System. Each mech gets a rating based on its capabilities (armor, speed, dps vs ammo capacity, hps vs heatsinks, ECM, etc...), that rating is then modified by the ELO rating of the pilot to get the final weighted value of the mech+pilot.

That's how we did it back in the TT days.

Edited by Aratan Aenor, 04 March 2013 - 02:28 PM.

[Amberite]

Getting set against Sync Drop teams isn't good matchmaking.
Getting put against 4 atlas d-dc isn't good matchmaking, but its worse when you have only 1 piece of heavy metal in your team.
Getting put against 3 ravens running ecm and 2 Atlas d-dc when your team has -no- ecm isn't good matchmaking.

Please look at the info, sort it out and give us matchmaking that works properly.

[Jaxass]

No words needed:



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[Carmaga]

The fact is that you don't decide the match outcome. MatchMaking phase 3 does it for you. If it decides you should win, you win. If it decides you lose, you lose. Just scroll up in this thread and take a look the images people have posted.

Game is getting really complicated. And there are and there will be those who abuse the game mechanics. And the game will never be balanced. That's simply impossible. If they fix something, the same rat race begins all over again. At the moment there are people who enjoy MM3 and they are going to be mad and frustrated if it gets balanced.

So if you can't win them, join them. Buy a OP build. Go with 6xPPC's or take 3xSRM6 + AC20 DDC atlas or take some other build that has lots of armour and huge alphas. Drop in a game where you have at least 4 assault mechs, bunch of ECM lights while the enemy runs with mediums. They are easy to get down. Just stomp them to the ground. Have a good laugh and drop to another match.

Well... I say a big NO to that. I will continue to play with my favourite mechs (which are mediums). So you have to put your chin to your chest, raise your right arm and off you go towards new disappointments. There's nothing more you can do about it.

But at least, try to have fun, and if you can't find any, try to create it.

[MavRCK]

This elo system is ridiculous - if you're good, you get matched with terrible players and get out-tonned by ridiculous amounts. This is supposed to be a good idea? And you want players who are good at this game and to support your game and pay more money for this game?

Wow - what bright boy in Vancouver thought this would be a good idea?

Punish the good players. That'll make people spend more money!

In all my years of competitive gameplay and testing I've never seen such stupidity.

[jay35]

Honestly, until you can figure out a way to balance for teamwork and cooperation, there's really no way for ELO or any other matchmaking scheme to properly balance teams and create a fun and competitive environment on a consistent basis.

The result of the current attempts based almost exclusively on wins/losses, swings wildly between extreme balance issues (a team with 5 Assault-class mechs vs a team with 2, or a team with 3 Raven 3-Ls, vs a team with three non-ECM Lights, and sometimes no ECM mechs at all), and a significant percentage of the wins end up as shutouts/near-shutouts (7-1, 8-0, etc).

Really, the first thing that could aid this would be to incorporate capturing and analyzing the scale of the wins & losses and not just whether they were wins or losses.

• Instead of a binary Win/Loss, actually capture how many kills & deaths each team had, assign all possible outcomes a point scale from least (0-8) to greatest (8-0), and factor that into player ELO as well. It will give a much more informative and accurate assessment of the quality of the match and the magnitude of the victory or loss. (To take this a step further and add another level of information quality, also capture whether the player was alive or dead at the end of the match.)
  
• Example: Two players each play 50 matches, of which both had 25 wins and 25 losses. Currently, their ELO would be identical if I understand it correctly. However if Player A won their 25 matches 8-0, while Player B's 25 wins were mostly 8-7 or 8-6, and they were among the dead on their team almost every time, that's a hugely significant difference in skill, and I don't believe ELO accounts for that right now and it may go a long way in explaining some of the imbalances we experience today.
  
• If Player B's team is carrying him/her to the wins they have, when Player B's ELO rises and the matchmaker starts assigning them as a higher ELO member of a team, they are unable to contribute enough skill to carry their team to victory and instead we see the constant flux and imbalances as a result, where the ELO thought Player B was more skilled than they really were simply because they had wins, when in reality they were carried by their teammates to those wins.

Second, start tracking battle values for the 'mechs that were fielded and run that data against the wins/losses for the games where BV is captured, to see if any patterns emerge.

• Factor BV(battle value) for 'mechs into the matchmaking algorithm to help better balance the firepower of teams

In addition to the battle value, a third factor is certain special equipment that can significantly alter the balance if only one team's mechs have it.

• ECM is a good current example of equipment that should be accounted for in a useful matchmaking/balancer function. If in time, ECM becomes less dominant, it could simply be removed from the equation.

Edited by jay35, 15 March 2013 - 12:15 PM.

[KKRonkka]

I simply dont like this new matchmaking at all. The basic idea that "the better you play the more you get facerollers in your team for balancing reason" is doomed to fail. And tonnage difference? Many matches has been lost at beginning when enemy has a) more assaults compared to your team or b ) more lights and usually ecm variants. Tonnage difference gives advantage immediately - especially highlighted in Alpine Peaks where you may see your team consisting of assaults/heavies only while enemy team has 4 lights.

Edited by KKRonkka, 15 March 2013 - 02:13 PM.

[Zerberus]

My main complaint is the tonnage balancing, and has been for a while.

Tinight I literally got so sick of dropping as the only assault on my team and getting chewed up when all the lights and mediums ran away in fear of the other team`s 3-5 assaults and left me to die with the other 2 heavies. 6 of those 10-11 games were matches were I didn`t see a single targeting indicator for more than 1 second but got to spend the whole map running from LRMs and dumbfiring my own LRMs at "ghosts" and potential targets while using heatview + zoom to at least score some ERLL hits... after a while it becomes so tedious you start to reconsider your next build /current loadout /overall future as a mechwarrior. Finally finished the new build and was dying to see what It could do, and from the first match on there wasn`t a single fair fight to be seen. Maybe tomorrow.

I mean, it`s great practice and fun for a map or two, maybe 3, but after having that be 50% of what you do for 2 hours, you eventually spend time doing domething else that makes more sense than spending another 2 or 3 hours earning 50k/ match on average. 100k average is already slow as continental drift. That`S not to be interpreted as a complaint in any way, but merely as to why it is demoralizing to constantly end up in matches where the other team has a 200 ton+ weight advantage AND multiple ECM mechs.

Edited by Zerberus, 15 March 2013 - 04:52 PM.

[Ryvucz]

This, is why I hate games with ELO.

[Hekalite]

Prime time matchmaking is extremely frustrating. Way too many organized groups versus disorganized chaos. I don't mind getting beat, but when I have lost before I've even finished the power cycle it's just not worth playing.

[Ryvucz]

This one is my favorite.

[Antarus]

I would take tonnage balance over Elo any day at this point. It is exclusively tonnage that is dominating about half of my games, and it is usually the other team (Because I play in generally middle of the road, weight balanced 4-mans) that has more assaults (Always STK-3K and AS7-D-DC) and more lights (Usually RVN-3L, sometimes commandos or spiders) There is no place for any medium or heavy that isn't an XL, SRM spamming Centi, Splat Cat, or Pop Tart Treb/Cat with PPC/Gauss. The lack of weight matching and the abhorrent boiling down to 5-7 powerful loadouts that everyone in the game runs is making the game pointless.

[Hayashi]

The 8-man queue seems to have disappeared. My Merc Corp finally got 8 pilots together two days ago, only to fail to launch 7-8 times in a row. We had to break up and drop as separate 4-man teams, but that was really quite sad.

[Genewen]

Antarus, on 15 March 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

I would take tonnage balance over Elo any day at this point.

I am the oppsite. To me, a skillwise balanced team and balanced ECM capacities are much more important then balanced weight. Of course, weight should also be taken into account, but it is generally the last thing that interests me.

I have won my fair share of matches against teams outweighing ours by 100 tons and more. What I have basically never won is a drop of two high ELO players with six bottomfeeders against a skillwise balanced team. And when I get an otherwise balanced drop I can bet my grandmother that one of them gets three ECM and the other team none, making the match unbalanced again.

Of the matches during the past few days, the biggest part were landslide victories for one side. Most ended between 8:0 and 8:2, rarely did we have matches ending 8:6 or 8:7. One cannot even GG to those matches because of how unbalanced that is.

Edited by Genewen, 16 March 2013 - 01:02 AM.

[Hayashi]

Merging in a thread regarding this.

[Ken Fury]

Well it seems to provide some close matches:

Well if we're using Commandos the fights seem quite balanced (would have won if the slow boats would have engaged the enemy instead of following the commandos to "help cap"):


If we drive Stalkers...

well

[Lt David Barns]

Just dropped into a game with my atlas. Our team was made up of 1 assault, 2 heavies, 2 mediums and 2 lights with the last slot remaining open. All in all a pretty balanced mix, or so I thought. We faced 4 assaults, among them two D-DCs, and 4 heavies. Needless to say, it was a complete slaughter. The tonnage was around 400 tons vs. 650 tons. Cheers to no weight class balance whatsoever!

edit: Sadly I had nothing running in the background to make a working screenshot with :/

Edited by Lt David Barns, 16 March 2013 - 01:54 AM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

i don't take many screen shots but these ae the most extreme match outcomes that i have. make up your own minds about this but elo hasn't made anything worse for me. if anything mm has improved somewhat. not like the worst outcomes weren't happening before so perhaps MM needs more work but i don't think it's as bad as everyone else says it is. though that's proberbly just me