483 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Tenoctris, on 28 February 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

Two things I've noticed about ELO. One positive and one negative. From a pugging prespective, sometimes you do drop in as a pug into a 4+man premade and they stack themselves a certain way. It's usually pretty obvious when this happens. Everything here is based off dropping into mostly full 16man pug matches.

The Positive: ELO is working great in terms of who(the person behind the computer) you are being matched up against. I've noticed a pretty big change in the overall skill level of the people I drop in with. As I improve/win everyone around me; allies and enemies alike become more intelligent and skilled. And when I suck I end up with more of the "other" kind of people, I don't like to discuss the "others", you know who and what they are.

The Negative: ELO is failing in terms of what(the actual pixels on screen) you are being matched up against. I've seen anything from teams made up of mostly Atlas and lights, teams of all meds, teams of 6 Catapults, just the most random totally not intended matching. ELO is still young which means it hasn't filled its fat brain with all the relevent data from us. This could be a direct result of that, which goes away once ELO grows up. Perhaps ELO isn't taking mech choice into account when making a match. It's pulling 16 random people with the same scoring but not making the decision that 5 Atlas on each team is a little ridiculous.

ELO is half working and half not working. The match making pre ELO patch was much better in terms of the what but less effective in terms of who. Keep up the good work guys, the game improves every patch.

Well, you see,

Spoiler

Is the match maker taking weight class into account?
Yes the version currently live on production does take weight class into account. The way the match maker works it tries to group players within certain thresholds and grows those thresholds over time to ensure a match is made within currently a 2 minute time period.
These curves will likely see some tuning for both skill and weight as we monitor the data coming in and work to ensure more and more matches are created within good thresholds. This tuning will happen over the course of upcoming patches.
I'm still getting matches that seem unbalanced.
It will take time for the ratings to stabilize please bear in mind that this will likely happen over weeks not days. Also it's important to clarify that the system is only using your match history since we announced that we enabled it for pre-seeding. If you've been with us since closed beta your skill rating is essentially a few weeks old and only based on what you've done in that time. This is the only way to be fair to everyone.
Also currently after 2 minutes you may get an unbalanced match as the match maker increases the thresholds dramatically to ensure you get a match this is as designed to ensure that you don't wait longer than 2 minutes to find a match.
How does the match maker compose a teams Elo rating, is it average rating or closest to a target?
It's closest to a target value, so the match maker starts trying to make a match for an Elo of say 1300 and will pull in players to those teams closest to those values; however, as mentioned earlier within growing thresholds and those curves will be tuned. Currently it may be a bit 'sloppy' about how it's filling those buckets but over time it will be tuned to be much more precise.
We need to do this carefully over time as generally the cost of precision is time to find a match we want to slowly find a very nice balance between time to find a match and the number of matches that are correctly composed.
Can we expect match making to be tuned?
Yes as just stated we will monitor and tune over time to ensure it is working optimally and as everyone plays more games things will naturally settle out over time.
If your getting consistently hard or easy matches please bear with it while the system adjusts and know that we are monitoring and planning adjustments to ensure everyone gets fair matches.

So, while it is taking weight class into account, I think it needs to prioritize it more - and the Devs are monitoring and tuning it, as they have planned to do from the start.

Edited by Void Angel, 28 February 2013 - 11:35 PM.

[Cest7]

More weightbalance bias

[BlueSanta]

The 4 lights on the opposing team were together. 3 of the DDCs were grouped too, while the fourth was a pug. You cannot ******* tell me that ECM should not be factored into the matchmaking. Tell me how THIS is acceptable?

[Scorcher One]

The matchmaker is totaly mischief... it does groups, that are redicolous.

[BillyM]

More Phase3 goodness,

OppTeam: 615tons - 5 assault 1 heavy 1 medium 1 light (3 total ECM)
OurTeam: 510tons - 2 assault 2 heavy 4 medium (our Atlas was packing LRMs, and no ECM whatsoever)

..and for the second time this week, I'm so disgusted with where this game is going, I'm off early to go watch TV or anything else honestly. No more MC to be spent, no more games to be played. ..but don't worry, Ravens, ECM, and Streaks are all working as intended. *waves*

[Carmaga]

Edit: Nothing....

Edited by Carmaga, 01 March 2013 - 10:40 PM.

[skamage]

Because of the matchmaker....I'm good with not playing for awhile.

[SVK Puskin]

BlueSanta, on 25 February 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

Your weight matching sucks. Not the only time something like this has happened to me, either.

Holly sh*t, unbelievable!

[TheSteelRhino]

I was planning on writing an epic flame post. And decided now, I'd give legit feedback. But it appears there is lots of feedback. So PGI..Normally I am good for a few hours of play each night and an MC purchase every month or two.

I'm grateful for the Treb (it's not perfect but its a mech!) , and I love the alpine map. But I am getting sick of this rather sad state of matchmaking. Weight class was better...that straight elo.

In fact, I really don't want to play PUG games. And my merc corps isn't playing because we can no longer drop effectively against ourselves to train, or against other units in a "planned drop". Honestly, I play MUCH better with a team. I suspect if you could differentiate between my effectiveness with a TEAM vs just a pug drop the results would be quite different.

Can you just put in the ability for team A to challenge team b.....it doesn't have to be fancy.

I'm going to go...watch netflix or something. Tired of being massively out tonned, or short a player in every drop.

It's just...not fun..

[SVK Puskin]

BlueSanta, on 01 March 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

The 4 lights on the opposing team were together. 3 of the DDCs were grouped too, while the fourth was a pug. You cannot ******* tell me that ECM should not be factored into the matchmaking. Tell me how THIS is acceptable?

Unbelievable!!!

[Max Genius]

Don't know if this has been suggested before but instead of just weight class matching, also try take total weight into account. I've seen it where each side had 4 assaults but 1 side had 4 atlases for their assaults and the other side had 3 awesomes and 1 atlas. Needless to say the side with 4 atlases won by far.

They should try to balance out with weight as well.

Edited by Max Genius, 02 March 2013 - 09:59 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Elo doesn't balance skill. It balances success. It doesn't take into account whether you achieved that through skillful play or simply piling on the cheese and running Raven 3L or Splat Cat 4 mans. That is the problem with the matchmaking system right now.

Also the lack of class balance. Nothing like having to play Alpine conquest with no lights while the other team has 4.

[Void Angel]

... I'm tempted to set up screen captures just to record all the matches where things are fracking fine.

/unfollow

[Hekalite]

Now that I've played a bunch of matches both solo and in a 4 man, I thought it would be a good time to revisit this feedback thread. For me, the matching making system is working very well overall. It would be foolish to claim it's perfect because it obviously has flaws, but so far so good. I'm looking forward to futher refinements to the system so it is good for everyone.

[Glythe]

Please give us an option to disable "forcing a match" after 2 minutes.

I'd rather wait 10 minutes than slog through a game that will be lost before it is over.

Currently 90% of my matches end in a blow out 6-2, 7-1 or 8-0.



This is by far the worst matchmaker we've had to date. And I must admit I quit playing at first because of all the 8 man drops vs pugs.


To have fair matches we need three components:

1. Weight balance (overall tonnage or relatively close)
2. ECM balance (if one team has ECM other team must have ECM. total difference in ECM cannot be greater than 2)
3. Elo

You need to balance them in this order.... so throw out the Elo for a while eh?

[Capt Cole 117]

Yesterday I dropped in a fourman with 3 atlai and a 3L. we got paired with another 4 atlai and matched against a team with only one assault. Something is ******. Did elo get disabled again when I wasn’t looking?

[Sahoj]

Feels good - our 4mans are actually losing a few matches if we're not goofing off.

[Klaa]

Just out of a round where the mm pitted 4 mechs against 8.

[Space Odin]

Im noticing the new matchmaking system isnt balancing teams by mech classes... at all. Im routinely playing games with uneven ratios of heavys assaults etc. The worst example is a game I played where my team had 4 lights 2 mediums 1 heavy 1 assault and the enemy team had 2 lights 1 medium 4 heavys and 1 assault. I dont know if this is an intended part of the matchmaking system or a bug, either way its bad.

Balancing teams by mech class doesnt really work that well in the first place but just throwing it out the window is way worse.

[NemesisXIII]

Had a terrible matchup where we had no lights and they had 4 they based us before we had even moved half way across the map. Screenie below. Of note, we didn't even wait 30 seconds for the matchup. We didn't hit this match after waiting over 2 minutes indicating a bad match, this game was very quickly found. ELO should take into account ECM #'s as well as general weight classing. Without knowing how the ELO rated our team vs the other it's hard to know who *should* have won, but it's clear that 4 lights fighting a group with no light or medium mechs would be an easy win for the 4 lights.