351 replies to this topic

[Zeh]

Destoroyah, on 20 February 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

The OP is right in a way. Without players being able to tell what map they are going to drop in they don't know which mech is best to bring. Not every mech is designed to be versatale, It's like telling a HNK 4G too adapt and lose their signature AC20 for a gauss or other wise or telling all lights they have to now be using Large lasers or PPCs, cause they might end up in the large map.

I don't get this argument at all.
When you drop onto a battlefield, it should not be a given before the drop that you know how far away the enemy location will be, it would be stupid IMO to allow people to coordinate which mech they bring dictated on a predetermined map size.

[ferranis]

Have fun playing against nothing but ppcs and gauss on alpine when map specific machs are allowed - NO

[Jacmac]

ownka, on 19 February 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Try running short range weapons on a fast mech, or defending your LRMboats/snipers.
Putting shotguns on your 40kph atlas never really made sense. The only reason it worked was every map being point blank brawling.

True, you better be fast if you are carrying short range weapons. The days of the 8-mans loaded with AC/20 + 3x SRM6 Atlas D-DCs are over (unless they alt+f4 on Alpine). Teams used to winning by bum rushing are going to have to work on a real strategy.

[Noth]

Mercules, on 20 February 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

Or they could do what people have been doing for 30 years with an AC/20 Hunchback. Use it for escort duty for larger mechs who do have the range to force engagements. I get that people are going to be upset that they can't be Rambo anymore and might have to actually consider helping the team out in some other way than running at the nearest enemy shooting.... but... I actually don't care all that much for some odd reason.

And that AC20 hunch is still useless since he runs into other mechs that can engage far beyond his range. The map is far more punishing on short range builds than all the other maps were punishing on long range builds.

[Chunkylad]

Wait, you mean I have to diversify my SRM boating to possibly have LRMs on mechs?? WHAT IS THIS WIZARDRY?
Wait, you mean I have to take a mech with mobility instead of an atlas that sacrificed all of its speed for weaponry?? WHAT IS THIS WIZARDRY?
Wait, you mean that scouts actually have a more complex role now instead of just streak kiting?? WHAT IS THIS WIZARDRY?
Wait, I died in a splatcat and didn't kill anybody before I died?? WHAT IS THIS WIZARDRY?
Wait, you mean I have to consider putting other ballistic weapons in my slots instead of an AC20?? WHAT IS THIS WIZARDRY.
Wait, you mean that 6 ERPPC stalker can actually be used as a sniper role without being rushed in 15 seconds?? WHAT IS THIS WIZARDRY?

Edited by Chunkylad, 20 February 2013 - 09:36 AM.

[Noth]

Chunkylad, on 20 February 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

Wait, you mean I have to diversify my SRM boating to possibly have LRMs on mechs?? WHAT IS THIS WIZARDRY?
Wait, you mean I have to take a mech with mobility instead of an atlas that sacrificed all of its speed for weaponry?? WHAT IS THIS WIZARDRY?
Wait, you mean that scouts actually have a more complex role now instead of just streak kiting?? WHAT IS THIS WIZARDRY?

No, it just switching from short range to Long range. It's not diversifying your build, it's specializing it in the other direction.

[boobooo42]

MadCat02, on 19 February 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Nice~! Randomly selected map that is 90% long range . So if people use srms like me i just stay in place and weit behind the corner hole round

Smart choice there


Quote:

If i do use balanced build like 4srm and 4 lasers i will still loose to random lrm player on that map

Yea like having ER Large lasers gona help anyone , you can't trade LRMs with that

Put some map artifacts at key points or something

My heart bleeds for you.

[Ngamok]

All the people who are crying that you can't brawl in Alpine are wrong. Out of the 8 times we played the map last night in a 4 man or me and 1 friend, we were involved in 3 brawls. One was a snipe only match. One was a 2 Light Mech race to base cap. Rest were enemy teams slowly closing on each other sniping till others got closer. Most of those were on the high base where the enemy team sits on the top overlooking the road below.

[Red Klown X]

Before post troll , learn to play , learn to get cover , learn the map .

[Phenakist]

Sweet justice, oh sweet sweet justice!

Edited by Phenakist, 20 February 2013 - 09:41 AM.

[Dracol]

I hope they never remove the random map option for matches that give exp and bill rewards.

To those that say they should know before hand which map they are dropping on... battletech wars are fought across an entire planet. When a mech unit is deployed out to a new planet, by the time they arrive the engagement can very easily have been move from the southern, freezing cold polar region to a desert on the equator.

Clan omni mechs were great due to the fact new weapons for a particular battlefield could be swapped in easily and within a reasonable amount of time.

Inner sphere mechs do not have that luxury and are forced to arm themselves to cover any type of battlefield or else run the risk of being at a severe disadvantage.

[RobotZombieDragon]

warner2, on 19 February 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

[size=4]

I think the OP has raised a legitimate concern to be honest.

The thing is, justifying large/small maps being in a rotation where you don't know what map is coming up next by saying that [size=4]this will force everyone to take "balanced" builds, which mix short/medium/long range, is really forcing people to play in a certain way. People don't like that.

Speak for yourself. Look at the general response to this thread. You are the first person supporting the opinion of the OP. Every person I know who plays MWO is tired of all the people boating SRM A1 cats and dual gauss/ac20 K2 cats. So far every indication is that people actually do like the map rotation forcing more dynamic weapons loadouts.

No offence intended but I don't think your opinion or that of the OP is representative of the general community. I also think the devs want MWO to keep its ties to the tabletop game and to a certain degree the older pc games (these had their flaws too), making people use a large assortment of weapons and not just lots of one type. I think personally it makes for more interesting gameplay instead of just repeating a gimmick over and over again that turned out so effective that it forces people to either do the same thing or suffer through their inferior builds because they were "balanced".

That forces people to play in a certain way even more than you mentioned map size affecting their play style. Try and adjust and see the light!

[PropagandaWar]

Five times I played alpine with a buddy 3 of the four matches I brought a Short/Medium Mech we closed in and killed. One time we were caught with our pants down and lrm rain cam.So yes you can just don't be light and don't be slow.

[Mercules]

Noth, on 20 February 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

And that AC20 hunch is still useless since he runs into other mechs that can engage far beyond his range. The map is far more punishing on short range builds than all the other maps were punishing on long range builds.

Escort...

He is with other mechs. Here is what happens. Longer Range mechs engage the opponents. If you can determine they have more longer ranged mechs then the Brawler like the Hunchie begins to close on them under cover of the fire support. If they have shorter range that will want to close the hunchie protects his fire support by hanging out and picking off those that do close on them.

This is, of course, assuming you use team tactics and don't blindly wander around in the open.

[FrostPaw]

If you design your mech to be good at only one thing, don't complain when the environment isn't tailored to it. You can build the mech however you want, the power to diversify is in your hands.

[Noth]

Thontor, on 20 February 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

He didn't say completely replacing all SRMs with LRMs.. Just some...like instead of 6 SRM launchers, the A1 might use 5 SRM and 1 LRM launcher, or 4 SRM and 2 LRM launchers... You get the idea... Just something so you aren't completely useless at any range.

At which point you gimp yourself on all maps. you can't compete with the range builds nor the brawling builds. Ranged builds were still deadly on all the other maps. Alpine the short ranged builds are nearly useless. I'm all for balanced builds, but completely negating short range is a poor design as no other map completely negates long range.

[Mavairo]

So.... what is the problem here exactly?

Try rolling in a faster mech

[Noth]

Mercules, on 20 February 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

Escort...

He is with other mechs. Here is what happens. Longer Range mechs engage the opponents. If you can determine they have more longer ranged mechs then the Brawler like the Hunchie begins to close on them under cover of the fire support. If they have shorter range that will want to close the hunchie protects his fire support by hanging out and picking off those that do close on them.

This is, of course, assuming you use team tactics and don't blindly wander around in the open.

Seen it happen, the hunchie does nothing and is left till the end or it get close enough. It adds pretty much nothing to the fight and actively hurts the teams since it cannot engage at the long ranges that the other mechs are.

[MaddMaxx]

Buzzkillin, on 19 February 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

So does that mean we will see a decline in splatcats?

Not likely. But what will be increased alot is players with Splatcats watching the Launch screen thinking to themselves:

"Please! Please! Please! Oh F$%^ Alpine. Guys I need an escort this Match!" Then the team mates responding...

LOL! Ok. LOL! We LOL! will LOL! send LOL! an LOL! escort LOL! right LOL! over LOL!... LOL! LOL! LOL! omg... newbs!

[SpiralRazor]

warner2, on 20 February 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

No, not really

I'm talking about a random map rotation where the maps are, now at least, beginning to get diverse. The sensible thing to do in that scenario is not to specialise, to take flexible builds that can cope no matter the map, or if you like, no matter the range. Some people actually like that, I can see the arguments for it.

I personally would like to see what map I'll be placed on before deciding my exact build, so that I can choose to take a Treb with ERPPC on Alpine or a Treb with SRM/ML on River City (random example).

I don't think that's unreasonable, and actually sounds sensible.

No, that actually is bad...Sounds good, but its bad... When people see river city, or any other close urban map, all you will see is huge throngs of SRMS, MLas and AC/20s..no thanks.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 20 February 2013 - 09:59 AM.