351 replies to this topic

[Larth]

Well considering in their blogs, many of the devs once said they wanted to try to bring the old battletech experiences to the game. Including the tabletop, so yes I am including the tabletop and novels and such. Though I suppose we could be like like the Battletech game for the 286 computer or Battletech: Crescent Hawks and just use 3025 mechs that were stock variants and that's it. I liked my Chameleon. Sure, Mechwarrior 1-4 video games added changes on the fly, but those games also had Omni's and the Clans.

As for not picking the map or mech, fine your drop ship got shot out of the sky and you had to eject. You know those 1-3 people that are D/C'ed at the start...they didn't eject in time. *laughs* Or maybe you were sent to go fight over here....oh wait, we need you fend off this force over there. Your the closest. Random is Random. I hope Random stays this way. I ALSO hope they do add a 'Pick Your Own Adventure...err Map" ability too.

[Cubivorre]

One Medic Army, on 21 February 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

Just felt a need to point out that your first paragraph argues that this is a video game, and then your second paragraph argues based on reality.
As to military forces doing stupid things, dear god do they, I hear stories all the time from my friend who served.

Regardless of any contradicting statements, his step by step proposal has merit. Many games have that sort of lobby set up and and work quite well.

[armyof1]

I think the reason people hate Alpine Peaks is because they can't maximize their damage output for every map, because before Alpine peaks every map had a lot of close quarter battle spots so you could always have a mech setup for close range battle and do pretty well all the time. Alpine Peaks puts a huge wrench in that way of thinking and force you to cut back on your max DPS in favor or range. Well that will diversify the loadouts and add some variety to the gameplay instead of now when it's always just a big brawl waiting to happen that will always favor certain mechs and weapons. This can only make MWO better.

Edited by armyof1, 21 February 2013 - 02:21 AM.

[Fate 6]

ownka, on 19 February 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Try running short range weapons on a fast mech, or defending your LRMboats/snipers.
Putting shotguns on your 40kph atlas never really made sense. The only reason it worked was every map being point blank brawling.

^
I ran a Cent-A with 3 SRM6s and 2 ML, with a 260 engine. I went like 1-1-5, being one of the only guys on the team to die since I ran in to fight.

[Onmyoudo]

van Uber, on 21 February 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

I guess it's just a difference of opinion then. I feel quite the opposite, I enjoy the challenge of being dropped outside of my Mechs "comfort zone", or trying to figure out slightly more versatile builds that do not deviate too far from the efficiency they currently enjoy.

To me it adds variation despite if I drop with the same Mech and build over and over. Trying to be effective with an Assault Brawler between buildings is quite the different experience compared to the same Mech on "the open tundra". But equally fun. To me.

I understand your point, and to a large extent I do not disagree - I am to a certain extent playing Devil's Advocate, I suppose. I do however feel that there is a potentially large element of frustration to be involved in this, which I don't think would be conducive to the success of the game.

[Onmyoudo]

Larth, on 21 February 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

Well considering in their blogs, many of the devs once said they wanted to try to bring the old battletech experiences to the game. Including the tabletop, so yes I am including the tabletop and novels and such. Though I suppose we could be like like the Battletech game for the 286 computer or Battletech: Crescent Hawks and just use 3025 mechs that were stock variants and that's it. I liked my Chameleon. Sure, Mechwarrior 1-4 video games added changes on the fly, but those games also had Omni's and the Clans.

As for not picking the map or mech, fine your drop ship got shot out of the sky and you had to eject. You know those 1-3 people that are D/C'ed at the start...they didn't eject in time. *laughs* Or maybe you were sent to go fight over here....oh wait, we need you fend off this force over there. Your the closest. Random is Random. I hope Random stays this way. I ALSO hope they do add a 'Pick Your Own Adventure...err Map" ability too.

The old Battletech experiences... within reason. In this case limiting a player to one mech and one mech only would ensure
the downfall of the game because it would not be at all fun, regardless of how accurate it may be to Battletech.

While I approve of your story (it made me laugh) there is at the moment no flavour of that sort in the game. Maybe if there were it would feel less arbritrary than it does, but all the context ever given in game is "You're Team A, beat Team B."

[DogmeatX]

Just to reiterate even if there are (for example)

5 small/brawl maps
5 medium size maps
5 huge/long range maps

This still doesn't negate that randoms can't coordinate their mechs before the round, but premades can. This is an undeniable fact.

So some kind of thing like my idea above would still be good.

So if you want truly random/unknown coming up:

1) Have equal numbers of map sizes
2) Still have the prematch lobby like above, only just don't show the upcoming map.

All problems solved.

[Larth]

I look at also as this is still beta. Yeah it's open beta, but still beta. Maps may not be their high point at the moment. Maybe the collision netcode is. Perhaps that'll add things like destructibles which will add more campaign styles like Defend/Obliterate or Defend/Capture. For the still early stages of the game, yeah it's a bit limited, but it is still early too.

@DogmeatX: (*chuckles* I'm too lazy to quote) As for your above ideas, they are good. Maybe they will do something like a Campaign mode, where you have to fight for a world. That sort of set up would be perfect for it. But for a quick a random fight, I don't know if I'd want to reconfigure my mech every time.


Edit: Although the lobby would be great irregardless of campaign mode.

Edited by Larth, 21 February 2013 - 02:32 AM.

[One Medic Army]

DogmeatX, on 21 February 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

Your serving friends, they never got any clue at all where they'd be deployed? It's somewhere hot? Somewhere cold? Bring extra heatsinks? Bring some warm clothes? Zip? Nada? The "only omnimechs" reason is a weak one in the video game context. (p.s. no need to reply about your friends, no insults intended just an illustration)

Sounds like when he got deployed to Louisiana post-Katrina.

Quote

So honestly, what real reason is there why it would be detrimental to have a system like the one I've detailed above? Especially when you consider this is something every moderately competent premade group does (assuming they use voice coms to set up beforehand) and this is the only way to give randoms the same abiility?

Mainly because I think that allowing people to tailor their builds to specific maps will negatively impact variety.
If close range brawlers are better for some maps, those maps will intimately see 90% or more brawler mechs, to the inevitable outcome that other types of mechs become extinct there. Now it's realistic, but it doesn't make for very entertaining gameplay when everyone's in the same or a similar build.
I prefer the gameplay where we get to see lots of different builds, all the time. I'd prefer if there were more large maps like alpine, and they showed up at equal incidence to the small clustered maps we have now.

All that aside, from a technical perspective allowing players to choose maps splits the player base,which is a bad thing. Allowing players to choose/modify mechs only after seeing which map is chosen makes matchmaking more difficult and increases how long it takes to get into game.

Edited by One Medic Army, 21 February 2013 - 02:41 AM.

[kingade]

MadCat02, on 19 February 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Nice~! Randomly selected map that is 90% long range . So if people use srms like me i just stay in place and weit behind the corner hole round

Smart choice there


Quote:

If i do use balanced build like 4srm and 4 lasers i will still loose to random lrm player on that map

Yea like having ER Large lasers gona help anyone , you can't trade LRMs with that

Put some map artifacts at key points or something

if u need help with your loadout, i can try to help u,
else u just need to try harder.
my last alpin game i was in an atlas with
1xAC20
4xML
2xSRM6

result was 2kills 2 assists

[Cubivorre]

@Onemedicarmy
They would be able to choose maps, but only be given a choice of 2 randomly selected maps or a generic random map button if nobody likes either map. So their would still be the possibility of your mech not being suited to the map. But it satisfies more people than not making a change. In the end this seems like something bigger than all of us. And its not like we cant just try something out. If it doesn't work it can always be taken out.

[Larth]

Hmm, I like that Cubivorre. Makes a nice compromise and still keeps the possibility of being wrong.

Maybe with the training mode for the future, they are working on the lobby and such as well, not just a map. Some UI where the actual selection of game with it's modifiers picked. And an integrated mechlab or something. Perhaps it'll be a stripped down version, like add weapons/ammo/tech, but not actually change the core mech like the engine, IS, armor, HS type, etc. If something like that is the case, then we might get a new 'mode' when we get our next map. Sadly this is all just supposition.


on a side note, i've posted more tonight than in the last 5-6 months combined.

[Sidekick]

warner2, on 19 February 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

[size=4]
I think the OP has raised a legitimate concern to be honest.

The thing is, justifying large/small maps being in a rotation where you don't know what map is coming up next by saying that [size=4]this will force everyone to take "balanced" builds, which mix short/medium/long range, is really forcing people to play in a certain way. People don't like that.

Errr.... wasn´t the current map design "forcing" the players to use close-range builds? And people did or didn´t like that..... Your statement is completely confusing me.

[LordDante]

Thontor, on 21 February 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

Yes, mechwarriors would know what they were dropping into... But unlike us they couldn't make changes to their mech on a whim... And they generally didnt have an assortment of mechs to choose from and pick the one best suited to the environment... They were stuck with what they had.

I think the fact that we don't know what we are dropping into basically simulates that, while at the same time allowing for the customization we have.

+1

[Lukoi Banacek]

+2

[Murzao]

So let me get this straight. Some people want to 'know' what map they get in order to boat the best combo for it.........what a dumb idea. That means everyone will boat SRMs for River City, and ERPPCs/LRMs for Alpine if given the chance.

Right now, you don't know what you're going to get...........so you have to boat less and have more moderate builds. OH SNAP!

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Thontor, on 21 February 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

Yes, mechwarriors would know what they were dropping into... But unlike us they couldn't make changes to their mech on a whim... And they generally didnt have an assortment of mechs to choose from and pick the one best suited to the environment... They were stuck with what they had.

I think the fact that we don't know what we are dropping into basically simulates that, while at the same time allowing for the customization we have.

This is really it in a nutshell.

People need to decide, do they want fully customizable mechs and random maps. Or limited mech customization with map choices at your discretion.

Perhaps once lobbies are in you can have fully customizable mechs and decide which maps to drop into, but i'll be avoiding that like the plague.

[Carnivoris]

You mean your SRM boat is less useful?!? *GASP*!

Maybe you should try diversifying your loadouts rather than going for cheese builds. That's WHY I like the new map.

[Raso]

The option to select you mech AFTER you know what map you're going to drop on would solve this problem. What mech warrior would bring a PPC sniper to a tight, urban setting to a brawler to a large, flat, dessert?

Honestly I don't know we we haven't gotten this yet. Don't let people mess with builds just let us choose from several, valid mechs which are ready to drop. Give us about 15 seconds to make our choice and if you don't choose something in that time it defaults to what ever you had selected in your mechbay before you launched.

BOOM problem solved. You can bring your 4SP out to play on River City and Forrest Colony with out fear of gimping yourself and others on Alpine Peaks.

[Onmyoudo]

I wish the people still rehashing the same points (i.e. all detractors run A1s, real mechwarriors only had one mech and liked it) would read the whole thread and take in the discussion that has already occurred around these.