351 replies to this topic

[rustyk]

I personally agree with those saying that random map rotation promotes more diversity.
If they introduce a separate game mode that allows a choice of maps then fine, but if it was a default choice then it would kill the game for newcomers as they wouldn't be able to compete with the specialised builds dropping into the maps.
ECM is a bone of contention but that change in itself promoted more diversity as when I first started playing this game as a pugger it was just lrm wars and nothing else.
The more maps they add the better. Once we get a decent amount of variety in the map sizes then we can revisit this, but not everyone has the time or money to have a specialised mech for each map.
Not knowing where you're going to drop actually makes it less likely that you'll be penalised for bringing along the mech you actually enjoy piloting. I don't believe that there is such a thing as a 'generic' build and a lot of people would probably enjoy playing a different mech and just accepting that it has strength and weaknesses on certain maps.

[Willie Sauerland]

MadCat02, on 19 February 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Nice~! Randomly selected map that is 90% long range . So if people use srms like me i just stay in place and weit behind the corner hole round

Smart choice there


Quote:

If i do use balanced build like 4srm and 4 lasers i will still loose to random lrm player on that map

Yea like having ER Large lasers gona help anyone , you can't trade LRMs with that

Put some map artifacts at key points or something

Wait, you mean this map requires more skill and different tactics?

Oh, the horror of it all!

[van Uber]

jay35, on 21 February 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Except you can't, because with things as they are you don't know what your surroundings will be until after you drop!

Speak for yourself. I'm fully capable of adapting my standard brawler to each map we have, including Alpine. When the startup sequence ends I usually have a very clear view of what I should do and how to do it based on the map and the composition of the drop. That may change during the course of the fight, but each and every time there is a unique plan even if I choose to field the same brawler the entire evening.

jay35, on 21 February 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

With random drops, you can't even choose an appropriate camo, rendering those utterly useless as anything more than mere cosmetics -i.e., doll painting. Again, fine for lazy people who aren't interested in tactics or strategy, but not befitting the MechWarrior game lineage.

They ARE cosmetics. What did you think Phranken would hide you from? Or do you truly expect a 100 ton walking warmachine be less visible with a paint job? If that ever would ever be the case in this game, people would use heat vision more.

jay35, on 21 February 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Unless what you call tactics and specialization equates to taking a particular build into a crapshoot of about a 1-in-12 chance of landing on the map you've actually set it up for...? So you're not really talking about tactics or specialization, and any claim to this mess fostering adaptation in a player is essentially rendered moot because it's going about it backwards. The random drops scenario goes against a core concept of game design, namely, that players shouldn't be routinely forced into situations where the majority of the time they're prevented from using the most appropriate tool for the job, particularly when they've been granted the ability to create said tool. Here, have a mechlab where you can outfit mechs that are appropriate for each environment, but wait, we'll prevent you from being able to select the right one for each mission. No matter how you want to color it, that's a fundamental failure in game design, and it's proven by the way it results in a negation of, or reduction in, the functional purpose of certain content and mechanics within the game.

When I talk about tactics i talk about adaptation, manoeuvring and positioning, you know, like the very definition of the word. When I speak of specialisation I mean it in tactical terms of long range support, short range brawler, fast scout etc.
Adaptation is in this case to take a specialised Mech that is built for a certain task (ie a short range brawler for the buildings in River City) and put it out of its element (Alpine), adjusting your playstyle to not overly expose your weaknesses (ie hug the mountain ranges to try to force short range combat).

This means that if you play the same build over several matches you can lead assaults on some, but need to hang back on others and pay extra attention to scout information, etc.

Contrary to your belief, people are actually doing this. Adapting by using different tactics on different maps.

[Hayashi]

This leaves the 3L Craven as the only Mech left that is still overpowered in every map.

[Rushin Roulette]

Edit:

You should have taken at least one Long range Missile launcher. Even Nelson knows this;

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 22 February 2013 - 05:17 AM.

[Watchit]

Even if you by some chance are running only short ranged weapons for whatever odd reason, you could always just defend the base. Literally how I lose half my games on Alpine is because we get capped from behind and none of the PUGs fast enough to run back don't.

[Willie Sauerland]

Hayashi, on 22 February 2013 - 04:39 AM, said:

This leaves the 3L Craven as the only Mech left that is still overpowered in every map.

That is only because of a faulty SSRM implementation. If PGIGP would follow the TT on this one, each launcher would have to lock, fire, and then reacquire the lock. This one lock to rule them all is crazy. Implementing it like this would make the SSRM more skill based than the easy mode they are now.

In the TT, if I saw a SSRM Commando or Raven, I would have laughed. Only here do I have to take them seriously. My favorite Mech right now is the Commando 1D sporting two ML and 2 SRM4s which is a hefty 30 point alpha for such a small mech. However, if I run into a Raven, Commando, or Jenner running SSRMs, I'm going to be hurting. I can usually take one, but two will kill me.

Just sayin...

[Hayashi]

Lagshielding, more importantly... if the larger weapons could hit the lights more reliably, it wouldn't matter too much what the Raven could mount if it'd be destroyed by Gauss and AC/20 anyway. Lights are supposed to use cover, scout, do hit and run and shoot from behind. Their ability to fight any other weight class head on and win at the moment is horribly unbalanced.

A fix for lagshielding by back-predicting the hit location based on ping is supposed to be forthcoming, so that what appears to hit on our screens will actually hit on the server. When that fix comes in, I do expect Lights to lose their godmode status entirely, leaving the AS7-D-DC as the only ECM mech that will last long enough for ECM to have a significant effect - and it's easy to hit with PPCs.

Then throw in a few more large maps like Alpine, and the SRM cat will become useful only in limited situations, and give us a lot more diversity on the battlefield.

Edited by Hayashi, 22 February 2013 - 07:29 PM.

[wanderer]

Noth, on 20 February 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Which is just poor. it's as bad as trying to balance build by the economy. It is particularly poor when the map punishes short range more than the other maps punish long range.

Which is why we need more like it, honestly. People used to whine at me because I had range advantage on any map that didn't have near 100% easy-mode closing to cover.

How soon people forget not being able to come over the caldera before the LRM pimpslapping descended...

While they don't have to all be Alpine-sized, there needs to be more reasons to be cautious about a superheavy short-range layout. When enough maps make that a clearly bad idea, we're moving more towards balanced loadouts.

Welcome to the metagame.

[Atlai]

I don't have to worry about it, i never get that map

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Captain Stiffy, on 19 February 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

My 2LL 3SSRM AC20 atlas is awesome on this map. BECAUSE I USE MORE THAN ONE TYPE OF FRIGGIN WEAPON! And that is a generally short-range atlas, really.

The only way this map could gimp you is if you are effectively exploiting or trying to play a Citytech mech in an open map. Which you shouldn't.

Why did you disconnect from Alpine almost immediately after dropping into the map then?

Edited by Daisu Saikoro, 06 March 2013 - 10:44 PM.

[Dirus Nigh]

I have done quite well in my 4SP on alpine. If you have a short range build on alpine you can do at least three things.

1) Stay in cover near your LRM support and long range snipers.

By doing this you keep your self protected and in a position to hit any mech that flanks your team and attacks the support mechs.

2) Hang back and protect the base on assault.

You do not have to stay right at the base. Move farwared so you can advance with your team if the enemy commits to a full out fight. Yet close enough to pull back if some one does try a base cap.

3) Use the very large hills to flank the enemy team.

By keeping yourself out of sight you can put yourself into a position to spot targets for LRM boats several hundred meters away. You can also move into kill the support mechs and instigate a brawl. Which would allow the rest of your team to advance. You could also try a base cap.

That is just three things off the top of my head a close range mech can do to help the team on a large map like alpine. Granted the speed of your mech will push it's player towards one option over another.