20 replies to this topic

[SgtKinCaiD]

Last night, the new ELO system went live. I'm not here to discuss about its problems of finding a match, etc. but it highlights two main concerns :
- farming cbills and mech xp
- testing your mech build

When i played last night, i was in a group of four and nearly every match were tied. One good point PGI. Rapidly, we were playing like in 8vs8 : gathering intel, planning attacks, etc. in short real strategy.

But i don't see me farming xp and cbills like this. If you take a average 100-125k cbills reward per match (not counting win/loss), it would take between 48 and 60 mactchs to buy a 350XL Engine ... Not to mention, matches are significantly longer than usual and more stressful.
Plus i quickly left my shinning new trebuchet to play my long now mastered Muromets in order to play effectively.

MWO need a game mode aside the Elo one, where you can play quick match to farm cbills/xp and test your builds. Like the old matchmaking maybe tuning it a bit : no groups only indivual player, no elo ratings only weight restriction, and you play like a no-brainer.

PS : Sorry for my english.

[StalaggtIKE]

Essentially an unranked match option.

[DeadlyNerd]

StalaggtIKE, on 20 February 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

Essentially an unranked match option.

this, but pugs only. pre elo pug stoming whine etc.

[SgtKinCaiD]

DeadlyNerd, on 20 February 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

this, but pugs only. pre elo pug stoming whine etc.

Not if you ban groups from this game mode.

[Eddrick]

SgtKinCaiD, on 20 February 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

Last night, the new ELO system went live. I'm not here to discuss about its problems of finding a match, etc. but it highlights two main concerns :
- farming cbills and mech xp
- testing your mech build

An unranked queue can help with grinding/farming.

The offline testing ground that was mentiond in one of the recent "Ask the Devs" should fix the problem with testing builds.

[Elder Thorn]

SgtKinCaiD, on 20 February 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

Not if you ban groups from this game mode.

this is what he said...

[focuspark]

ELO was disabled http://bit.ly/UygCvz

That said, even if a player wants out of the ELO system (which I support) their stats should still be tracked and used to calculate ELO rankings.

As for c-bill incomes, the devs will adjust awards as time goes on. If the ELO system is so good that most matches timeout without a proper resolution, the devs will find a way to make the game fun again. Awards are the carrot that keep people coming back for more, they cannot let the carrot wither - and they won't. It's in their best interest. Additionally the community will adapt - humans always do - and gameplay will change to accommodate the new skill levels and people will get better at not allowing the timer to run down.

[blinkin]

i would like ELO to be calculated per mech variant. i have one mech that i am very good with some that i am mediocre with and a great many that just get me killed over and over again.

[focuspark]

blinkin, on 20 February 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

i would like ELO to be calculated per mech variant. i have one mech that i am very good with some that i am mediocre with and a great many that just get me killed over and over again.

+ 1

[SgtKinCaiD]

Ok let me try to explain another way : compare MWO with Starcraft 2 . SC2 has also a ranking system but you don't need xp or money to buy equipment in order to play. The match suffice itself.
The problem is not the ranking system, the difficulty is that you have to farm xp and cbills BEFORE the match in order to play.

[focuspark]

SgtKinCaiD, on 20 February 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Ok let me try to explain another way : compare MWO with Starcraft 2 . SC2 has also a ranking system but you don't need xp or money to buy equipment in order to play. The match suffice itself.
The problem is not the ranking system, the difficulty is that you have to farm xp and cbills BEFORE the match in order to play.

Oh oh MW:O is free and SC2 isn't too

[Donas]

blinkin, on 20 February 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

i would like ELO to be calculated per mech variant. i have one mech that i am very good with some that i am mediocre with and a great many that just get me killed over and over again.

+1

[Donas]

Wait, let me see if I understand this correctly... I'm going to substitute the word 'farming' with 'picking apart a new guys mech so I make more money per match'... Because that's what farming is, right? A nice way of saying that I want to be able to walk in and destroy lesser skilled opponents for greater rewards... huh.... Yeah no, I don't support that.

How about this instead, the rewards for destroying components on enemy mechs is directly proportional to their Elo rating. The higher their ELO, the better your reward. That system would encourage you to seek out the tough fights, encourage pushing yourslf to the limit, and reward you handily for bravery and valor, instead of giving the bully the little kid's lunch money, which is what it sounds like you are mourning the loss of.

If I'm off target here, I'm interested in what farming actually is.
If I'm on target, cry me a river.

[SgtKinCaiD]

Eddrick, on 20 February 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

The offline testing ground that was mentiond in one of the recent "Ask the Devs" should fix the problem with testing builds.

At least we should be able to test our mechs and explore maps.

Donas, on 20 February 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Wait, let me see if I understand this correctly... I'm going to substitute the word 'farming' with 'picking apart a new guys mech so I make more money per match'... Because that's what farming is, right? A nice way of saying that I want to be able to walk in and destroy lesser skilled opponents for greater rewards... huh.... Yeah no, I don't support that.

No, that's not my point. What i mean is a fast repeatable match mode like skirmish or ffa, a brawl fest, ... I can't explain it properly.

Donas, on 20 February 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

How about this instead, the rewards for destroying components on enemy mechs is directly proportional to their Elo rating. The higher their ELO, the better your reward. That system would encourage you to seek out the tough fights, encourage pushing yourslf to the limit, and reward you handily for bravery and valor, instead of giving the bully the little kid's lunch money, which is what it sounds like you are mourning the loss of.

It's a very good suggestion.

[Calimaw]

ELO: Based off of DAMAGE.
Done.
KD? Kills come when you deal damage.
Location of interest? If youre doing damage, you're in the right spot.

I carry a 1.52KD, I'm going up in KD, but my wins are below my losses.
I routinely do 600 to 700 damage with a 3M, and end up on top. Doesn't ensure a win.

If I can get a little co-op merc action then it's much easier to secure a win, but that all depends on if they want to play ball or not.

I take orders from others, I'm not a 1337 K!77Z0r **** (<--- lol @ that being filtered), N4B-B0!

I'm simply 1/8th of a team ( give or take a farmer, or two... )

Edited by Calimaw, 21 February 2013 - 04:59 AM.

[Stringburka]

blinkin, on 20 February 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

i would like ELO to be calculated per mech variant. i have one mech that i am very good with some that i am mediocre with and a great many that just get me killed over and over again.

YES. THIS.

Or people will start new accounts. I'm usually in my Raven 3L or Cicada 3M and doing quite well, so I'll get a decent ELO score from that - but I also like jumping around in my Spider 5D even though I'm a LOT less effective in it, and I'm currently trying to exp the Spider 5V to unlock master - let's just say, doing that with ELO in place will be hell.

Calimaw, on 21 February 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

ELO: Based off of DAMAGE.
Done.
KD? Kills come when you deal damage.
Location of interest? If youre doing damage, you're in the right spot.

No. Damage is a very bad way to calculate ELO as you can be a very skilled player and win a lot without doing any damage at all. A skilled spider can completely rip apart new players in Conquest without dealing a single point of damage. It would just mean high ELO matches = Atlas/Splatcat brawlfests, low ELO matches = supercapping.

Players who are good at neither won't meet other players who are good at neither (which is the point of the ELO system), they'll meet insanely good cappers.

[SgtKinCaiD]

Calimaw, on 21 February 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

ELO: Based off of DAMAGE.
Done.
KD? Kills come when you deal damage.
Location of interest? If youre doing damage, you're in the right spot.

It doesn't work for conquest mode.

Edited by SgtKinCaiD, 21 February 2013 - 05:09 AM.

[Stringburka]

Donas, on 20 February 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

How about this instead, the rewards for destroying components on enemy mechs is directly proportional to their Elo rating. The higher their ELO, the better your reward. That system would encourage you to seek out the tough fights, encourage pushing yourslf to the limit, and reward you handily for bravery and valor, instead of giving the bully the little kid's lunch money, which is what it sounds like you are mourning the loss of.

That's an excellent suggestion.

[Calimaw]

SgtKinCaiD, on 21 February 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

It doesn't work for conquest mode.

If captures counted towards that it would. Unfortunately its harder to figure out when some one is doing something smart as per tactics.

Time capping, time counter capping, I dont know. but W/L doesnt make sense

[Stringburka]

Win/losses make excellent sense, because if you're unlucky enough to drop with bad players a lot of time and get low ELO due to that, you'll drop against worse opponents and even out the scores. If the goal is to make the matches as even as possible that is the best stat to use.

I also have a K/D over 1:1 (1.12) and a W/L below 1/1 (0.86), I guess to a large degree people tend to have it because when you start out you suck and when you've gotten good, you can get like 3 per match to even it out but you can't get more than one win per match.

So it's faster to make up for low K/D than low W/L gotten during one's first weeks.

Edited by Stringburka, 21 February 2013 - 05:19 AM.