152 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Lykaon, on 21 February 2013 - 03:12 AM, said:

Noob friendly? I will give you streaks as a noobgun but LRMs are an important counter to a certain very popular A1 catapult or K2 catapult build that we all see in droves.

Would we be seeing swarms of 6X SRM6 A1s or twin AC20 K2s if they actually had to be concerned about getting into killing range? Without any fear of sustaining damage these builds are free to lurk in cover under ECM "cloak" to wantenly kill because someone took the paper out of paper rock scissors.

Ask Doc. In my LRMboating days. Gausscats and SRMCats were my favorite meal! I literally hunted those builds over Atlas or Awesomes. And if you had LRMs... I made sure you knew I had your number! I came to the weapon mix i have now shortly after ECM, SRMCats are more of a threat, GaussCats not much change there. Only I use Gauss and PPC to tangle with em and SRMs up close and personal.

[Teralitha]

DocBach, on 21 February 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

They can do a lot better than MW4 and make both systems interesting while providing utility without complete dominance and unbalance.

Yes they could, but atm they havent done better than an older game. They did worse....

Edited by Teralitha, 21 February 2013 - 12:51 PM.

[Red squirrel]

How comes that most pro-ECM posts are full of insults?

[Khobai]

Quote

How comes that most pro-ECM posts are full of insults?

Because players hate ECM and it brings out the worst in them.

[Red squirrel]

Khobai, on 21 February 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Because players hate ECM and it brings out the worst in them.

That's exactly the opposite of what I stated.

[Fitzbattleaxe]

I'm curious how many of the pro-ECM crowd pug primarily, because a lot of so-called counters really depend on planned team loadouts. If no one can be sure that someone else will bring tag, then everyone has to bring tag.

Of course that's kind of true anyway - it takes 1 ECM to cloak 8 mechs, but you'll need 8 independent tags to make them all detectable again.

[Thuzel]

Red squirrel, on 21 February 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

How comes that most pro-ECM posts are full of insults?

Because there's a high correlation between vocal pro-ecm users and trolls. I'm not saying all ECM users are trolls, but there are a lot of them out there. Also, they usually don't have a lot of cogent pro-ecm arguments, so they resort to insults and name calling.

The sad thing is that they get attention, so they tend to get more obnoxious over time.

[Abivard]

funny, it seems the opposite, anti ecm troll boards, they live on some of the threads it seems, You don't see the insults because they are from your side, so in some magical way known only to you they become words of encouragement.

Just like the following seem to magically occur only to the ban ECM crowd.

Unable to fire any weapons
Armor disappears off your mech
you always drop against premade sync droppers
You always encounter all ECM mechs on enemy team and only your mech has ECM on your team
You always lose
The deathblow always comes from ECM
ECM took your lunch money

[DocBach]

Fitzbattleaxe, on 21 February 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

I'm curious how many of the pro-ECM crowd pug primarily, because a lot of so-called counters really depend on planned team loadouts. If no one can be sure that someone else will bring tag, then everyone has to bring tag.

Of course that's kind of true anyway - it takes 1 ECM to cloak 8 mechs, but you'll need 8 independent tags to make them all detectable again.

The thought process is, if you don't play the game way they like to play it, ie in competitive level, with organized with teams, you don't deserve to play the game.

Though a funny thing -- if you look at the post history of a lot of the people so vocal about ECM staying the same, you'll find tons of them made "QQ" posts about how unfair and dumb missile implementation was. In fact, the OP of this thread has a huge rant against Streak Missiles. Maybe they should have taken their own advice and learned to play the game and adapted to missiles in a combat environment?

Edited by DocBach, 21 February 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[Thuzel]

Abivard, on 21 February 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

funny, it seems the opposite, anti ecm troll boards, they live on some of the threads it seems, You don't see the insults because they are from your side, so in some magical way known only to you they become words of encouragement.

Just like the following seem to magically occur only to the ban ECM crowd.

Unable to fire any weapons
Armor disappears off your mech
you always drop against premade sync droppers
You always encounter all ECM mechs on enemy team and only your mech has ECM on your team
You always lose
The deathblow always comes from ECM
ECM took your lunch money

You're helping prove his point. Exaggeration doesn't help.

Of course you're going to see more negative posts from the anti-ecm crowd. Because it's contrary to the current implementation, people have to prove their case as to why they think it's bad. That involves points going against the current system, which are usually negative. Anyone defending the current system has a lot more freedom in their statements, and can be much more positive, though I don't see a lot of positive pro-ecm posts.

[Red squirrel]

Thuzel, on 21 February 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

You're helping prove his point. Exaggeration doesn't help.

Indeed

[gunkie]

K0M3D14N, on 20 February 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

The majority is also completely uneducated on why ECM is an issue. It isn't an issue. It's a symptom. They see these ECM Lights (Raven 3Ls, COM-2Ds) and assume taht ECM is the problem with them. It isn't.

Streaks are.

No! I actually think the A7 DC is a bigger problem than the ecm lights. ECM is a force multiplier! A force of mech lead by an ecm equipped assault will almost always beat the non ecm equipped. All PGI has to do is look at the win loss ratio for ecm capable mechs. I would bet a significant amount of real money that it's well over the 50% standard you'd want every mech to have.

[Inertiaman]

Red squirrel, on 21 February 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

How comes that most pro-ECM posts are full of insults?

Because the common argument on the pro-ecm side seems to end up at "you're all complaining because you're bad at playing mwo. I am not bad at playing mwo (like you) and I am telling you ecm is fine". That's hardly a solid starting point.

The better pro arguments list all the things which provide any counter to ECM. The problem with those arguments of course is that you end up with ECM on one side of the seesaw and 40,000,000CB and 20,000GXP of items weighing 20 tons on the other. And ECM is still better.