125 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

Because you always get a front profile shot when sniping right?

The early game consists of both teams sniping eachother. In order for the mechs on the other team to snipe you they have to be facing you. So yes sniping is typically always a front profile shot. And having a smaller profile is a huge advantage in the sniping game, which is why mechs with high hardpoints are generally favored for sniping, because you can expose less of your mech to take shots at someone.

No Trebuchet can go 151kph so no Trebuchet has the potential speed of a Cicada. And if you're referring to the Trebuchet 3C, it tops out at around 139kph, and you need a frickin XL390 engine to do that, which is 9.5 tons heavier than the max engine of a Cicada. You would have to sink so much tonnage into your engine that you would barely have anything left for weapons (maybe ~8 tons left for weapons). At that point you're just making an ineffective troll build.

The max reasonable speed for a Trebuchet is around 115kph (with an XL325 engine). Which still isn't fast enough that it can avoid getting hit. Especially with its above average profile. I suspect the 7M will become the most popular variant of the Trebuchet because of the jumpjets which let you fire while limiting your exposure

Quote

All the enemy has to do is wait for you to expose your ST and they pick it off with ease given the size and lack of armour it's mega easy to instantly kill a treb with a single volley.

Yeah especially with that XL engine. You can easily die in one or two volleys. The Trebuchet is pretty much forced to use an XL engine because it can't go the speed its supposed to without an XL.

Edited by Khobai, 21 February 2013 - 03:16 AM.

[Wingbreaker]

Onmyoudo, on 21 February 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

After playing my Trebuchet and measuring it against other mechs in game (taller than Cataphracts, inches shorter than a Stalker and a little taller than Awesomes give or take cockpit heights) I believe that all mech sizes should be recalibrated slightly (taller assaults, slightly smaller lights) in order to exaggerate and emphasise the differences in class for the sake of flavour as much as anything else. I find it a little disconcerting that except for the lights and the Atlas, every other mech appears to be basically the same size.

I find it a little disconcerting that except for the lights and the Atlas, every other mech appears to be basically the same size

What.

No, seriously. What? With four classes, you're concerned that the middling two classes are similar, and that the outlier two classes are significantly different?

[Sifright]

Wingbreaker, on 21 February 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

I find it a little disconcerting that except for the lights and the Atlas, every other mech appears to be basically the same size

What.

No, seriously. What? With four classes, you're concerned that the middling two classes are similar, and that the outlier two classes are significantly different?

you could try engaging your brain hard work and much effort i realise it could also burn out those two brain cells you do have but honestly at least try to keep up

[Onmyoudo]

Wingbreaker, on 21 February 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

I find it a little disconcerting that except for the lights and the Atlas, every other mech appears to be basically the same size

What.

No, seriously. What? With four classes, you're concerned that the middling two classes are similar, and that the outlier two classes are significantly different?

So Atlas is a class all on its own now? Well I suppose my lesson has been learned.

Nevertheless, I do not feel that in gameplay a 50-ton Centurion or Trebuchet should be the same size as an 80-ton Awesome or 85-ton Stalker, or taller than a 70-ton Cataphract, for aesthetic and flavour reasons. Not to mention the added functional vulnerability of decreased armour.

[Wingbreaker]

Onmyoudo, on 21 February 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

So Atlas is a class all on its own now? Well I suppose my lesson has been learned.

Nevertheless, I do not feel that in gameplay a 50-ton Centurion or Trebuchet should be the same size as an 80-ton Awesome or 85-ton Stalker, or taller than a 70-ton Cataphract, for aesthetic and flavour reasons. Not to mention the added functional vulnerability of decreased armour.

No.

lol, wat

[Khobai]

The Atlas basically is in a size class of its own because of how underscaled the Stalker is for its weight.

[Tennex]

i don't think they have any guy overseeing the height of these mechs. lool or the communication in this company isn't very good. balance isn't exactly kept in mind when making the mech sizes. mediums are very gimped.

[Gregore]

ok I did not read all the posts so sorry if I reiterate someone's idea.

Here is the thing, you can have many people the same height but different weight. This is true for mechs as well. Do you know why?
Because just as people are, mechs are THREE DIMENSIONAL!!! Just because your monitor is flat, does not mean the mech is.

SO a mech has height width and depth. So a treb is same height as an awesome, it is also more narrow and much thinner. Go figure that this results in less weight. Hard to imagine that 2 machines built with the same materials that are the same height but one is thinner and narrower and ends up weight less.
It is almost as if 2 things with the same or similar density but different volumes weigh different amounts. holy crap this is new science.

[Noth]

Gregore, on 21 February 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

ok I did not read all the posts so sorry if I reiterate someone's idea.

Here is the thing, you can have many people the same height but different weight. This is true for mechs as well. Do you know why?
Because just as people are, mechs are THREE DIMENSIONAL!!! Just because your monitor is flat, does not mean the mech is.

SO a mech has height width and depth. So a treb is same height as an awesome, it is also more narrow and much thinner. Go figure that this results in less weight. Hard to imagine that 2 machines built with the same materials that are the same height but one is thinner and narrower and ends up weight less.
It is almost as if 2 things with the same or similar density but different volumes weigh different amounts. holy crap this is new science.

Doesn't make that much sense when you actually look at them. The treb is almost as wide as an awesome in the points where people always aim. Having a thin waste is meaningless in this game.

[DaZur]

ZnSeventeen, on 20 February 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

Yes, as has been stated to an extent, the game models are three dimensional.
There is height, width and depth. Together, they give volume. Multiply volume by density and you get mass, which when multiplied by gravity gives you weight.

Yay!

Second most intelligent thing stated in this thread... Besides my own post.

[Gregore]

Noth, on 21 February 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Doesn't make that much sense when you actually look at them. The treb is almost as wide as an awesome in the points where people always aim. Having a thin waste is meaningless in this game.

What that the thinner shallower one made of the same material as the thicker deeper one weighs less?

Hey look this medium pizza I ordered is just as thick and almost as wide as a large pizza, how come it is cheaper? They are almost the same size, they should be the same.

[Mazzyplz]

someone said this in another topic some time ago, but the trebuchet doesn't have as much volume as the awesome, look at the awesome's torso and legs, they're way meatier, not just on the sides but front to back too.

the trebuchet is tall but real skinny, slightly side to side and really skinny front to back.

[Mazzyplz]

DCLXVI, on 21 February 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

i just dont like the scaling at all in this game, im sure its easier to make all the mechs nearly the same size.



it dosn't make sense that a human should be able to fit in an Atlas eye ball, but a jenner is nearly half the size of an Atlas.

the eyeball is the window, the actual cockpit is presumably half the head, with that eye to peek out from.
if you sit on the cockpit you'll notice how the window is rather small compared to the cockpits of many mechs

btw optimus is only 9m?
marvel sentinels are the same size as the commando/spider? WOW...

at-at and mechagodzilla are megasword's pets

also worth noting how the transformer from macross which is a plane turns into a 15 meter high robot (which would make sense given how a combat jet is about 15 meters long) - this seems like a very fragile robot - double cockpit.
but now i'm not so sure the atlas height is correct at around 16 meters...

i guess the macross robot manages to waste a lot of space in that transformation.
and i'll assume those lasers the sentinels shoot are small lasers if they can't even kill the x men. lol

i used to roleplay my awesome was optimus, but now i think awesome might crush optimus under his boot

Edited by Mazzyplz, 21 February 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[Adridos]

Tennex, on 21 February 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

i don't think they have any guy overseeing the height of these mechs. lool or the communication in this company isn't very good. balance isn't exactly kept in mind when making the mech sizes. mediums are very gimped.

Quite the opposite. I'd say that when it comes to such accurracy, they are the most precise company in the entire world... because absoluetly never bothered with such details and yet: http://penny-arcade....ricate-birth-of

[Tennex]

Gregore, on 21 February 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

ok I did not read all the posts so sorry if I reiterate someone's idea.

Here is the thing, you can have many people the same height but different weight. This is true for mechs as well. Do you know why?
Because just as people are, mechs are THREE DIMENSIONAL!!! Just because your monitor is flat, does not mean the mech is.

SO a mech has height width and depth. So a treb is same height as an awesome, it is also more narrow and much thinner. Go figure that this results in less weight. Hard to imagine that 2 machines built with the same materials that are the same height but one is thinner and narrower and ends up weight less.
It is almost as if 2 things with the same or similar density but different volumes weigh different amounts. holy crap this is new science.

but there are mediums the size of assaults. how come there aren't light mechs the size of heavy mechs. if you want to talk dimensions. the legs on a raven are very skinny. theoretically it could be as tall as a dragon and still weigh that much less

[CDLord HHGD]

Ricky Cheung, on 20 February 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

Interesting thread, I snapped a quick screenshot here for you guys:

http://imageshack.us...es/5/treas.jpg/

Hope this helps.
Depends if you want to count the Trebuchet's antenna or not

Roland, on 20 February 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

That size looks perfectly correct to me.

Also, I dunno who this Ricky dude is, but he posts answers to our questions and thus he is awesome. Huzzah for Ricky!

Indeed!

[Corvus Antaka]

Has anyone actually done a proper scaling evaluation of building sizes, mechs, etc? I'm curious given the jumpjet hieght as well how the sense of scale is in general.

ie in Crysis 2 buildings are much bigger, but of course you are just a tiny human.

[ChrisOrange]

Onmyoudo, on 21 February 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

After playing my Trebuchet and measuring it against other mechs in game (taller than Cataphracts, inches shorter than a Stalker and a little taller than Awesomes give or take cockpit heights) I believe that all mech sizes should be recalibrated slightly (taller assaults, slightly smaller lights) in order to exaggerate and emphasise the differences in class for the sake of flavour as much as anything else. I find it a little disconcerting that except for the lights and the Atlas, every other mech appears to be basically the same size.

Yes definitely.  The only problem you run into is that the already slow feeling of the biggest mechs will be increased when their size is increased.  I guess it's not that big of a deal though.

Like I wrote earlier, I personally just have a problem with the Centurion being so tall and easy to hit.  Trebuchet could be shorter too.  It really feels like medium mechs should be closer to smalls than they are to heavy mechs.  If they ever come out with a super tall Shadowcat for example then that's going to be a damn shame.

Edited by ChrisOrange, 21 February 2013 - 10:09 PM.

[s5134195]

Tennex, on 21 February 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

i don't think they have any guy overseeing the height of these mechs. lool or the communication in this company isn't very good. balance isn't exactly kept in mind when making the mech sizes. mediums are very gimped.

I asked Dennis about this. On an aside (and not to you personally, Tennex): I find being polite, encouraging, and sincere in a private message produces far better communication than creating attention-seeking soap boxes in a public forum. Not saying this to anyone in particular, just some anecdotal advice. Anyway, Dennis responded to me, and I will share his response with you all:

"Now, regarding 'Mech scale; there seems to be quite a bit of contention about this on the forums. The original eight 'Mechs were scaled by me; I am fully accountable for them and stand by my decisions. Many people use the silhouettes as their only source of reference when comparing scales and neglect other factors; the most important being the density of every 'Mech is not spread equally over it's structure. The Catapult, for example, may have a large silhouette over it's fuselage, but this is just a large box and its content doesn't weigh that much. Most of it's actual weight is in the fuselage and legs.
Here is a quote I wrote in the design doc regarding 'Mech scale:

Mass should not be confused with weight as mass is a constant and weight is relative.
In other words, an objects weight is dependent on the amount of force exerted on it by gravity, whereas mass remains constant, even in weightless environment: inertia depends on mass.
Given that all Mechs are (by enlarge) made of the same materials, it can be determined that their masses are relative to one another i.e. One cubic measurement of every Mech has equal weight.
A relatively light Mech may be taller than a Mech of equal weight or heavier. The Centurion, for example, is taller than both the (equally heavy) Hunchback and the (heavier) Dragon.

This may or may not convince everyone that my decisions are correct, but a call has to be made, and I made it. The rest of the 'Mechs' scales are determined as we go, are based on every one before it and are discussed thoroughly between Alex (concept), Evan & Kris (modelers) and myself."

[EDITED FOR FORMATTING]

Edited by s5134195, 22 February 2013 - 01:46 PM.

[Slab Squathrust]

Alistair Winter, on 20 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

Remember, ladies, it's not only about length. It's also about girth.

What about yaw?