12 replies to this topic

[Karr285]

Here is a thought that fixes Steaks with ECM and doesn't change any balance.

ECM on disrupt means they cant lock on you fine

but make it so you CANNOT lock onto them either while active. Done fixed.
want to shoot streaks turn your ECM to counter.


If you want a real world reason (for those who like those) Lockon via radar seems to be what we use, if you dont know the Frequency the enemy uses you have to blanket the whole area across multiple frequencies, downside you cant lock either.
(Think of it like a Bubble where No SSRM's can function if even 1 mech in the bubble has his ecm turned on and isnt being countered.)

^^^^ seems very similar to what we have now. On a secondary note you can go as far that if ecm is on disruptthey cant target you and you cant target them either.

This would also stop the ssrm locks too. either one I would think would fix a ton of the ECM issues players have and does not remove what players like about ecm (ppl cant see you)

as a balance feature to this although making little sence I would make your team LRM's unaffected by this due to the possible team grief factor of this.

[Metafox]

I like the simplicity and effectiveness; the issue I see is that your idea doesn't fix the underlying problems with SSRMs vs. lights and it adds the issue of friendly jamming. The problem with SSRMs vs. lights is that the target's speed and the player's skill has little effect on whether or not the missiles hit, and lights' survivability is based almost entirely on speed and skill. Your idea will balance a streak raven vs. streak jenner battle, but a laser jenner vs. streak raven will still be totally one-sided. The other possible issue is that a "friendly" pug might unintentionally lock out friendly streaks. Unlike with friendly fire, it wouldn't be obvious if you're ECM-locking a friendly mech. Overall, I think that your idea would improve the game, I just think that there are more comprehensive solutions out there.

[Karr285]

I agree that It may still be one sided, but at least if the raven has to drop his ECM to fire streaks he is now vulnerable to other non-ecm streak mechs and LRM's ontop of he cant hide himself on the map or your friendly target he is trying to kill.

The friendly lockout i know would be an issue but it would also stop the raven flocks. maybe only taking 1 ecm scout in a group instead of 4.

[Rakura]

/signed

[Calimaw]

Karr285, on 20 February 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

Here is a thought that fixes Steaks...

Mmmm, Steak.

That's not how electronic counter measures work.
You want a true fix for ECM vs Streak?
Toggle to override SSRM "Assured Hit" so that Streaks fire as dumb missiles. Same speed as Streaks (200, not 300 like SRM).

Bing bang ding dong done.

Edited by Calimaw, 20 February 2013 - 07:16 PM.

[Monky]

The issue with this is trolling, intentionally or unintentionally. Imagine getting a lock on someone and needing to fire but some derp has his ECM set to disrupt and they're even on your team and your head explodes from the rage.

A better solution is; Let Streaks fire like normal SRM when jammed. This is how it works in TT. A lock is still required (and therefore would need to be made possible), which means the ECM is jamming the missiles, not the mech itself.

As far as streaks themselves, they're a bit OP. The best option is to ensure they hit a spread of target areas, possibly reduce the splash radius on them so that they aren't all pegging the torso with splash if that is what's causing it. Either that or revamp the targeting code so legs/arms have a much higher chance of being targeted rather than torso (or what I suspect; center of mass targeting, blech).

[Calimaw]

For a solution of SSRM hitting torso its a simple matter of changing what they target.
Currently SSRMs target the center torso ( correct? need a citation ), for them to spread damage they could target a RANDOM part on a 'mech. Would this be per instance of lock? per instance of fire? per instance of SSRM weapon? per instance of missile?

I see nothing wrong with SSRM targeting the center torso. 'Mechs are 3-Dimensional objects, you can turn to take a hit in the flank.
If JJ capable you can take them to your legs.

Not JJ capable? Too bad, buy a JJ capable 'mech.

SSRMs should not be SRMs IF there is an option to fire them as such. SSRMs travel 1 third SLOWER than SRMs, this is because of the ammunition itself.

SSRMs are a 2 piece component weapon system.

SRM(2) vs SSRM(2) as a weapons system shows that SSRMs are 50% heavier, this is due to the system that locks onto the target. The ammunition itself is 100 meters per second slower, this is to reflect the fact that it is guided ammunition.
My logic suggests that the 100 m/s difference is to suggest that SRMs use a non-vector thruster, linear directional force; where SSRMs use a vectored thruster, or perhaps even winglets that cause drag.

The only problem I see with SSRM and ECM is that ECM while within 180 meters of a SSRM is able to disable the weapon system entirely.

SSRMs are not a big deal to fight, 3 x SSRM = 1 x SRM(6).

[Karr285]

Calimaw, on 20 February 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

SSRMs are not a big deal to fight, 3 x SSRM = 1 x SRM(6).

except 3 SSRM = 100% damage everytime you shoot even at 270m 1Srm 6 = 50-75% damage if you don't miss completely, Plus you can lock a target with your arms and hit them with torso mounted SSRM's

Anyway Well if you guys dont Like the possible friendly greifing how about While ECM s active all actions (moving, jumping fireing weapons) cause 50% or 100% more heat. Although this would need a new toggle option to turn it off all together
BUT it would bring back the use of ECM as a SCOUTING role with even tag not a brawling light. Or with the DDC a command platform.

[HRR Insanity]

No. Does not fix the problem.

A good RVN-3L (or any 'Mech) will flip ECM modes rapidly to avoid being locked and still be able to lock enemy 'Mechs. Because they control when they can and cannot be targeted, this will not solve the issue.

[Mahnmut]

If only the ECM carrier, not the rest of the team, is affected by the negative effects than it would work ok. This would actually make other non-ecm lights viable as they would still get the protection of the ecm so the ECM mech would need others to be most effective. ECM carrier no longer god mode and other lights get some love.

Edited by Mahnmut, 21 February 2013 - 09:12 PM.

[Mahnmut]

HRR Insanity, on 21 February 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

No. Does not fix the problem.

A good RVN-3L (or any 'Mech) will flip ECM modes rapidly to avoid being locked and still be able to lock enemy 'Mechs. Because they control when they can and cannot be targeted, this will not solve the issue.

It would still open up windows where other mechs can lock onto them. Sure, the ECM pilot will have a slight advantage, but it adds a little more skill in order to be most effective. Currently there is zero thinking required by an ecm light with ssrm's.

[HRR Insanity]

Mahnmut, on 21 February 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

It would still open up windows where other mechs can lock onto them. Sure, the ECM pilot will have a slight advantage, but it adds a little more skill in order to be most effective. Currently there is zero thinking required by an ecm light with ssrm's.

Does not fix the issue. Good pilots will still be a complete hard counter to other lights. This is not good game balance.

[Karr285]

so taking a mech that currently takes 0 skill to play effectively and putting in SOMETHING that makes it start to take skill to be effective is bad, good argument.