25 replies to this topic

[Sanreal]

For PUGs, there's really only two possible outcomes on this map:

1) Spend several minutes walking across the map in the shortest path to the enemy base that is way out there beyond f'ing Egypt. The enemy team does the same, and now we have a long range battle while pillar humping the center mountain. Any mechs with short range weapons can afk. Any light mechs without ECM can simply die (to one LRM Artemis volley).

2) Get bored of this camping snipefest map, decide to circumvent the middle mountain and simply race to the enemy base with a pair of fast mechs to cap. Game will end LOOONG before anyone can get back to their base to stop you.

So much for balance. Until we can choose which mechs to bring for which maps, we're all stuck either running long-range builds, or simply base capping on this map. Light mechs without ECM really have no other choice, while slower mechs get to spend all their time marching and not fighting. Why did this map survive internal testing, PGI?

EDIT: Okay, criticism is fair, I'll remove my inflammatory lead sentence. But the point still stands, PUGs really aren't going to like this map.

Edited by Sanreal, 21 February 2013 - 12:42 AM.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

guess you may have to scout, and protect the base. Sounds like the end of stomp slow mechs that carry 6 srm 6's and 6 med lasers or some other ****** crap like that.

[Fergrim]

The OP precluded any discussion when he stated his initial dismissive premise: "I know all the sim fanboys are loving the strategy"

Apparently, using the power of informal logic, you either agree with him... or are a sim fanboy... No room for intelligent discussion here, may as well move along... He posted this as an exercise in whiny self-aggrandizement.

[One Medic Army]

3: communicate via text chat, find the enemy via scouting/spotting, while remaining near base, and then vector in on them.

Text chat does wonders, all it takes is being willing to type and read. If you're in combat just report the grid. If you're not in combat you can take time to type.

[jakucha]

This is the only map where scouting is actually useful. You don't know for sure which side the team will go first so if you want to turn the match into a long range fight then you get a scout to check the way you aren't going.

[Simoncritz]

i wish i could comment, played about 40 matches the past couple days and still havent gotten it

[Ace Kaller]

Actually, I have noticed a distinct strategy that comes into play on this map, we'll call it "All chat fast-talking". Here's how it works:

Both teams rush to base, and do not run into each other on the way. When the first mech hits the cap zone, the fast-talking begins. The team that is not capping immediately floods the all chat with things like "cap win is for ****" and "what a chicken**** way to win, noob". Now, if your team is good enough at this, you will shame the other team off the cap. Sometimes, you can even get the other team to start FFing the people who are capping until they get off the cap. Once the cap stops, you mass your team just outside the enemy cap and rush the cap all at once. When the other team starts QQing that your tactics were dirty and underhanded, you hope that your team is more immune to the fast-talking that the other team was to your fast-talking. If they are, you win!

I wish this was a joke, but sadly, I've seen it play out in about half of my Alpine matches.

[bitMuse]

Well, to be perfectly honest. This is a mechwarrior sim.

So I guess that makes it.. *drumroll*

A sim.

[Commander Kobold]

OP has a bit of a point the whole conquest base cap mechanic is not very alpine friendly.

[Tal Kharn]

OP,

baring the "almost" requirement of having your very own 'press agent' to vet your wording on this forum and avoid flaming, i do understand your frustration but also feel that this new situation/map requires each pilot to engage with their team a little more than on a smaller map. I'm not going to demand you jump on TS/C3 and talk, but small maps allow PUGs to get away with not engaging with your team mates very much. The first of many new large maps to come, alpine peaks, means that that soft cushion of very short distance is about to start slipping away bit by bit.

Alpine peaks pushes the steriotypical PUG "i'm just going to do my own thing and not worry about what the big picture is for my team" thinking. If you find yourself in a PUG, i really think initiating some quick typing at the start of your match may greatly assist both yourself and your team. most are probably exactly the same, just waiting for the blob to pick a direction and then fullfill what role you have for yourself in your head. My suggestion, start a match simply with a few lines like this:

Hi, i'm a X fitted Y mech
thinking of playing (insert your playstyle i.e support, brawler, sniper, scout etc).

The others may join in and then your team has a better idea of what they have and also it encourages others to share and talk. Pretty soon a picture starts to form up about what your PUG team's strengths and weaknesses are. From here i'll leave it to fate but you've taken the first step and engaged with your team without too much personal commitment/energy.

[BladeSplint]

HALP HOW SCOUT????

[Tarman]

BladeSplint, on 20 February 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

HALP HOW SCOUT????

Form a metalbabby.

[Chavette]

Ace Kaller, on 20 February 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

Actually, I have noticed a distinct strategy that comes into play on this map, we'll call it "All chat fast-talking". Here's how it works:

Both teams rush to base, and do not run into each other on the way. When the first mech hits the cap zone, the fast-talking begins. The team that is not capping immediately floods the all chat with things like "cap win is for ****" and "what a chicken**** way to win, noob". Now, if your team is good enough at this, you will shame the other team off the cap. Sometimes, you can even get the other team to start FFing the people who are capping until they get off the cap. Once the cap stops, you mass your team just outside the enemy cap and rush the cap all at once. When the other team starts QQing that your tactics were dirty and underhanded, you hope that your team is more immune to the fast-talking that the other team was to your fast-talking. If they are, you win!

I wish this was a joke, but sadly, I've seen it play out in about half of my Alpine matches.

PGI stepping up their game.

After CW, information W, mech W, we get psychology warfare too.

[OneEyed Jack]

One Medic Army, on 20 February 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

3: communicate via text chat, find the enemy via scouting/spotting, while remaining near base, and then vector in on them.

Text chat does wonders, all it takes is being willing to type and read. If you're in combat just report the grid. If you're not in combat you can take time to type.

Well, no. It also takes a couple light or very fast medium pilots actually willing to do the same. Unfortunately, many of the light pilots consider themselves front-line combat units and would rather find a heavy/assault to circle that actually do any scouting. While this requires them to find an enemy, it doesn't always equate to scouting, since they often don't bother passing along any info before charging in. A depressingly large number of them won't even bother to report that info if/when they get killed, they just immediately quit the match.

Yes, I know, I could solve that issue by driving my own scout mech. I sometimes do. But I'm not a dedicated light driver and don't care to be stuck in them all the time to fill the role when others are already in them. I try to be a team player, but within the role I choose.

[Khobai]

They need to increase how long it takes to cap on Alpine. Its currently impossible to get back to your base from the center of the map before it gets capped.

[Adridos]

Khobai, on 21 February 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

They need to increase how long it takes to cap on Alpine. Its currently impossible to get back to your base from the center of the map before it gets capped.

Then leave a guy to defend.

[van Uber]

Sanreal, on 20 February 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

For PUGs, there's really only two possible outcomes on this map:

My experience so far has never ended in either of your two possible outcomes. They have been interesting fights, that have never ended in cap, but with several meta-fights over base control (lights trying to sneak a cap, meds detaching from main confrontation to counter). I'm sure I'm going to end up in a boring fight sooner or later on Alpine, but I have yet to be in a game that ends in anything but total team obliteration.

[Fate 6]

Play Conquest. A lone light can cause troubles if your team doesn't cap at the start, but it ends up being a better overall experience. This is true of all maps, not just Alpine.

[p4r4g0n]

Beg to differ, I've solo'd Alpine and I enjoyed every one of the matches I had on that map. That said, it is even more fun if you have a group.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 21 February 2013 - 05:26 AM.

[Dagnome]

Sanreal, on 20 February 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

For PUGs, there's really only two possible outcomes on this map:

1) Spend several minutes walking across the map in the shortest path to the enemy base that is way out there beyond f'ing Egypt. The enemy team does the same, and now we have a long range battle while pillar humping the center mountain. Any mechs with short range weapons can afk. Any light mechs without ECM can simply die (to one LRM Artemis volley).

2) Get bored of this camping snipefest map, decide to circumvent the middle mountain and simply race to the enemy base with a pair of fast mechs to cap. Game will end LOOONG before anyone can get back to their base to stop you.

So much for balance. Until we can choose which mechs to bring for which maps, we're all stuck either running long-range builds, or simply base capping on this map. Light mechs without ECM really have no other choice, while slower mechs get to spend all their time marching and not fighting. Why did this map survive internal testing, PGI?

EDIT: Okay, criticism is fair, I'll remove my inflammatory lead sentence. But the point still stands, PUGs really aren't going to like this map.

I beg to differ, I think that Alpine is promoting teamwork more than ever, A uncoordinated PUG group will suffer from what you describe above. A somewhat coordinated group can effectively navigate the map and engage the enemy in a timely manner. We made another step into promoting teamwork with Alpine and people are going to be uncomfortable with it, especially those who solely pug.