68 replies to this topic

[AZA311]

I think it will balance the game better and make it more strategic and enjoyable overall.

Here are my points

The time in action is noticeably less than the time not in action
We are constantly waiting. Waiting for matchmaker, the 10 second countdown, to lumber into position. Finally, when the action starts, it's over before you can enjoy it because we don't have enough armor. I am rarely ever satisfied with the actual fun part of a match compared to the setting up of it. Then you have to re-start the whole process. That is not fun man.

Less strategic gameplay because of low armor
Aim for the weapon, scout, torso twist, find cover, re-group. How can I do any of that if i'm already dead or have no weapons remaining because of low armor. This is further compounded by the fact that the main strategy in this game is to gang up and focus fire. If i am lucky enough to survive one skirmish, there is nothing left in my armor for another engagement. There is just no time for strategy because of low armor.

No chance for stars to shine
It's a team based game but it doesn't have to be the only way to play. A player who can shine on their own is inherently playing as a team. Why is everyone in little annoying mechs? Cheese builds? Because they want more survivability in order to be the hero. Roles would be enhanced. The Atlas would be seriously scary. There would be no confusion on the role of a medium mech. A scout could scout and live to tell about it. If we had more armor, players could shine more and they would complain less about other little nuisances. More independent people would join and stay to play. Not everyone runs in units.

Increase armor is the only option
Why? Because no one wants to lower the number of weapon hardpoints. No one wants repair modules or repair stations. No one wants hi-tech future stuff because its arcadey. And with airstrike coming, the already inadequate armor we will be strikingly so. Increasing armor is the only option!

Suggestions

• Increase the armor ratings by _x_%. Matches would last longer by _x_%
  
• Increase the strength of structure. When armor is stripped, there is not much protection provided by structure i read somewhere. Structure is strong man!
  
• Have different types of armors and structures for sale.
  
• We need more defense measures but that's a whole other thread.

You see, having low armor is taking away from my game time even more because i have to complain and write about it.


More armor = more fun!

Edited by AZA311, 09 March 2013 - 08:32 AM.

[KingCobra]

I agree the mechs are like butter and 3-5 minute matches are a joke but you have to remember the DEVS are the old NHUA=NO HEAT UNLIMITED AMMO players that like one shot kills and mechs that melt in a few seconds.Its more like playing Planetside2 than mechwarrior.

Edited by KingCobra, 09 March 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[Felbombling]

They could double the armour again. They could slow down the weapon recycle times. They could reduce the damage of the weapons to compensate for how fast they recycle. All the builds that use ammunition seem broken to me. A Trial build with a LRM launcher might carry one or two bins of ammunition. A player modified build with that same LRM launcher might carry four or five bins of ammunition. If the stock builds are not viable, does that not indicate something wrong with the game mechanics? If that is the case, is the extra ammunition needed due to the speed of the recycle, the damage needed to kill off opposing Mechs or a combination of other factors?

This game really does feel like Call of Duty, where a player 'dies' after a few hits. I don't feel like I'm in a large walking tank anymore. It is weird when even a Heavy Mech fears coming over any ridge... there is next to zero endurance to the game at this point. The OP is correct... in game play or in the Testing Grounds, some builds carve through Mechs like a hot knife through butter, and it gets boring fairly quickly.

[Zyllos]

The reason why armor feels inadequate is because of weapon convergence.

That is the whole reason why armor was doubled in the first place. You should have seen the closed beta before armor was doubled. Everything died quickly. Especially with the "real" head hitboxes. Atlas' died in seconds.

But since they have doubled armor, single weapons are completely worthless. So now everyone wields multiples in locations in which they will converge onto a single point.

If they added more spread to weapon fire (cone-of-fire, torso weapons do not converge, ect, any system would work) then you will begin to see mechs survive MUCH longer.

It is also why the Raven is so good compared with other lights is because when you fire at a Raven, you are spreading that damage all over the Left, Center, and Right Torso. It is extremely hard to concentrate fire onto a single location on that mech. So now that Raven has as many armor points as an 80t Awesome's Center Torso.

Edited by Zyllos, 09 March 2013 - 07:57 AM.

[Sheraf]

I would disagree with you. This is a team based game. Going solo needs to always guarantee failure. If you want lot of action, stick with each other as a team, and you will see a lot of action, providing the other team also do the same.

[MadSavage]

No.....................

Increased armor just skews the game even more to favor the team who doesn't have a disconnect or has heavier assets.

Zyllos, on 09 March 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

So now that Raven has as many armor points as an 80t Awesome's Center Torso.

WTF are you smokin bro? I want some

[RG Notch]

KingCobra, on 09 March 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

I agree the mechs are like butter and 3-5 minute matches are a joke but you have to remember the DEVS are the old NHUA=NO HEAT UNLIMITED AMMO players that like one shot kills and mechs that melt in a few seconds.Its more like playing Planetside2 than mechwarrior.

Exactly that's why they doubled armor from TT to start.... oh wait never mind.

[KingCobra]

RG Notch, on 09 March 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

Exactly that's why they doubled armor from TT to start.... oh wait never mind.

OW wait have they not rebalanced the already overpowered weapons even more as in way overpowered now compared to the armor? Or it just looks like they doubled the armor and doubled the hitbox size instead? I can make the mech stats look like whatever i want sure double armor let me redo the simple code here in fact they wont know it really does nothing in actual game play but it sure looks good.

[Fajther]

I too remember the closed beta days before they increased the armor. It felt like call of duty then, not so much now. If the weapons fire 3 to 5 times faster and the armor is only 2x more then we will die faster then what the table top game was. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. Staying very close to your team really keeps you alive longer. But for the people who want more armor they should get it. A usable hardened armor is very important not only for player customization but it is also for the survival of the inner sphere given what is about to happen. They made ecm stronger then it was supposed to. Give us some hardened armor that will keep our mechs competitive during the invasion.

Edited by Fajther, 09 March 2013 - 08:26 AM.

[Zyllos]

MadSavage, on 09 March 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

...
WTF are you smokin bro? I want some

Heh...not smoking anything. But did you miss my argument?

Edited by Zyllos, 09 March 2013 - 08:34 AM.

[RG Notch]

KingCobra, on 09 March 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

OW wait have they not rebalanced the already overpowered weapons even more as in way overpowered now compared to the armor? Or it just looks like they doubled the armor and doubled the hitbox size instead? I can make the mech stats look like whatever i want sure double armor let me redo the simple code here in fact they wont know it really does nothing in actual game play but it sure looks good.

You're right, don't let anything get in the way of a good rant.. well honestly it's not even a very good rant but don't let me or the facts or anything stop you.

[Deamhan]

KingCobra, on 09 March 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

I agree the mechs are like butter and 3-5 minute matches are a joke but you have to remember the DEVS are the old NHUA=NO HEAT UNLIMITED AMMO players that like one shot kills and mechs that melt in a few seconds.Its more like playing Planetside2 than mechwarrior.

I'd say it's more like CoD than PS2. Hell, if this game had the PS2 persistant huge pvp maps but set in the BattleTech universe....oh man that would be awesome.

As for the OP. There is one more benefit to another armor doubling. It will amplify the difference that exists between weight classes. With a greater difference in maximum armor between the weight classes, each weight class is better defined.

[Khobai]

I agree gameplay is currently way too fast. Not only that but the Atlas simply does not feel like a tank. It dies in seconds.

Either damage needs to be nerfed or survivability needs to be increased.

[Aethon]

Oh, hell yes! We should double armor AGAIN! That way, we can make the smaller weapons even more useless than they already are, see even MORE cheesy boat builds (because anything else would be pointless), and we can pretend our AC/20's are shooting ping pong balls!

/sarcasm

Seriously, though...no. Just no. Doubling the armor was only done to attempt to compensate for the lack of weapon spread, which was one of the primary factors in Battletech working with its existing formula. They removed that, so they had to compensate for it (which doubled armor failed to do anyway).

[Khobai]

Quote

Oh, hell yes! We should double armor AGAIN! That way, we can make the smaller weapons even more useless than they already are, see even MORE cheesy boat builds (because anything else would be pointless), and we can pretend our AC/20's are shooting ping pong balls!

Here are the facts:
1) triple rate of fire over tabletop = x3 damage
2) allowing aiming at specific locations instead of random hit locations = x3-x4 damage
3) doubling armor = /2 damage

So were already dealing with 4-5 times more damage than tabletop. The damage in MWO is way higher than it should be. Tripling armor is not nearly as bad as it seems.

Look at it this way...
when clan tech comes out and you have madcats with four erppcs doing 60 pinpoint damage, do you really want every mech in the game dying in two volleys? Or do you really want light mechs dying in one volley to SSRM6s? Increasing armor is the only real way I can see of balancing clan tech anyway...

Plus 12v12 is just gonna be stupid if mechs die in 3 seconds to focus fire. If an Atlas can't even tank in 8v8 what chance does it have in 12v12?

Edited by Khobai, 09 March 2013 - 09:42 AM.

[PapaKilo]

I had this whole long spiel typed up, but I deleted it. I'll just say this:

Even with state rewind making direct shots more accurate, as an almost-exclusive light pilot I cannot agree with adding more armor to our 'Mechs. It would simply make all classes harder to kill and won't fix the problem. The big boys would still be whining that they can't kill lights.

We are getting 12v12 matches and bigger maps. That'll change the dynamic, no?

[Khobai]

Quote

We are getting 12v12 matches and bigger maps. That'll change the dynamic, no?

Yeah in the wrong direction. More mechs = more focus fire = mechs die even faster.

[VikingN1nja]

Heres my 2 cent a heavy say stands toe to toe with a medium, who should win the one with twice the armor.
Double heatsinks dont improve cooling that much for what they cost.
Improved engine types should take up less space as they are supposed to be more advanced and lighter and cost loads, why would a more expensive engine make you more vunerable anyways it should be just improved weight.
its like 2 steps forward one back less fun.

Edited by omegaorgun, 09 March 2013 - 09:46 AM.

[Runenstahl]

My opinion is that instead of making armor better they should make aiming worse. What about something like in World of Tanks where your shot lands somewhere in the general area you aim at, but definitely NOT with pinpoint accuracy. That should automatically "cure" weapon convergence AND make for better survivability.

[Khobai]

Well to elaborate...

1) In a fight between a medium and heavy. Who should win? The better pilot.

2) XL engines do not work like tabletop. Tabletop has random hit locations. MWO has aiming. Being able to aim at someones side torso completely devalues XL engines. They are supposed to be much better than they are.

Quote

My opinion is that instead of making armor better they should make aiming worse. What about something like in World of Tanks where your shot lands somewhere in the general area you aim at, but definitely NOT with pinpoint accuracy. That should automatically "cure" weapon convergence AND make for better survivability.

Because most players hate the idea of RNG being added to the game. Increasing armor doesn't introduce RNG into the game. Plus it requires a whole lot less work on the part of the devs to just increase armor values.

Edited by Khobai, 09 March 2013 - 09:53 AM.