32 replies to this topic

[Team Leader]

Lets throw some around. Nobody reads suggestion forums enough for there to be any real discussion from a large group weighing pros and cons, people only click on the topics they support too. So I'm bringing this here. Anyways, back to the point. Of course these are not all set in stone, it would probably have to be tweaked and tuned until it was nicely balanced with the super expensive modules. Heck, make targeting computers pretty expensive too!

My suggestions for targeting computer to have a use are:
1) increase lock on speed by 5~10% (apparently TC doesn't have anything to do with missiles, this point can be ignored, however it would still give missile boats a reason to carry TCs)
2) increase target info acquisition by 5~10%
3) lock weapon convergence to your current targets distance (the big one!)
4) once a mech has had all its info gathered, down to the weapons, their mech variant will be posted on the scoreboard for your team (just like it is for your team! This is also another big one!)

ECM would counteract the lock on and scanning bonuses, but not convergence or scoreboard posting.

That last one might be used for command console as well/instead, whatever helps give either a purpose. I'm sure everyone would like to see 3 and 4.

Anyways, post your propositions!

Edited by Team Leader, 24 March 2013 - 09:34 AM.

[Erasus Magnus]

Team Leader, on 23 March 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

Lets throw some around. Nobody reads suggestion forums enough for there to be any real discussion from a large group weighing pros and cons, people only click on the topics they support too. So I'm bringing this here. Anyways, back to the point. Of course these are not all set in stone, it would probably have to be tweaked and tuned until it was nicely balanced with the super expensive modules. Heck, make targeting computers pretty expensive too!

My suggestions for targeting computer to have a use are:
1) increase lock on time by 5~10%
2) increase target info acquisition by 5~10%
3) lock weapon convergence to your current targets distance (the big one!)
4) once a mech has had all its info gathered, down to the weapons, their mech variant will be posted on the scoreboard for your team (just like it is for your team! This is also another big one!)

ECM would counteract the lock on and scanning bonuses, but not convergence or scoreboard posting.

That last one might be used for command console as well/instead, whatever helps give either a purpose. I'm sure everyone would like to see 3 and 4.

Anyways, post your propositions!

why should the TC INCREASE lockon time?

or is it meant to increase the time, the lock on weapons are locked on, pretty much ike the target decay module?

Edited by Erasus Magnus, 23 March 2013 - 08:49 PM.

[Moromillas]

Another module? Why not just buff BAP if it's needed. Or, some unlocks for BAP.

Or maybe even unlocks for the sensor module. The one already in the game.

Edited by Moromillas, 23 March 2013 - 08:50 PM.

[Team Leader]

Erasus Magnus, on 23 March 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

why should the TC INCREASE lockon time?

Because there's no way to add a +# to hit on a game that relies entirely on mouse input with no cone of fire or movement penalties. And it makes sense. That's why.

Moromillas, on 23 March 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

Another module? Why not just buff BAP if it's needed. Or, some unlocks for BAP.

Well TC will have very little purpose, if any, if they ever put it in at all. Much like C3 network, we practically have it already. There's no way to represent it in game without good bonuses.

[Moromillas]

Team Leader, on 23 March 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

Well TC will have very little purpose, if any, if they ever put it in at all. Much like C3 network, we practically have it already. There's no way to represent it in game without good bonuses.

Well, if we make too many modules and equipment, chances are that there will be too much modules and equipment. If the bonuses are balanced etc, yeah it probably would be better to have it as an unlock for something already in the game.

[Team Leader]

Moromillas, on 23 March 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

Well, if we make too many modules and equipment, chances are that there will be too much modules and equipment. If the bonuses are balanced etc, yeah it probably would be better to have it as an unlock for something already in the game.

I don't understand. How is more stuff bad?

[No Guts No Glory]

Team Leader, on 23 March 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

Because there's no way to add a +# to hit on a game that relies entirely on mouse input with no cone of fire or movement penalties. And it makes sense. That's why.

The TC adds a -1 to hit rolls making it easier to hit your target.

All TC should do is Lock your weapon convergence to the targeted mech.

And ECM doesn't need to counter anymore equipment. It's already a hard counter to LRMs and streaks and one could argue it's a soft counter to everything else.

Hell, make it so that the TC allows targeting of ECM shielded mechs within 180 meters, but does not provide a lockable target for missiles. Or, perhaps provide a lockable target to allies only.

This is the only way I could see TC's being worth the weight or somewhat sensical short of MW3's little lead calculation reticle for each weapon and specific bodypart targeting.

[Team Leader]

On crap, I forgot about the weight. Make it 1 ton, or .5 ton, and only one slot, and it covers your whole mech. Seriously, computers aren't that big. According to the sarna site it's like Artemis for ballistics and lasers. If they leave it using TT rules, 1) it wouldn't make sense 2) it would be too useless and resource consuming

[Erasus Magnus]

Team Leader, on 23 March 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

Because there's no way to add a +# to hit on a game that relies entirely on mouse input with no cone of fire or movement penalties. And it makes sense. That's why.


Well TC will have very little purpose, if any, if they ever put it in at all. Much like C3 network, we practically have it already. There's no way to represent it in game without good bonuses.

i ask again, why should the tc prolong the time for a weapon to lock on?
if at all, it should REDUCE it. and we already have that, its called BAP.
second, why should the tc mess around with lock on type weapons (streaks, lrms) at all? the TC in tt only works fir direct fire weapons, NOT for srms,ssrms ,mrms and lrms.

howevver, i think it actually would be pretty huge if it would provide convergence adjustments, like you suggested.

i`d support that. it could be well another module for that single purpose.

Edited by Erasus Magnus, 23 March 2013 - 09:51 PM.

[Moromillas]

Team Leader, on 23 March 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

I don't understand. How is more stuff bad?

Not that more stuff is bad, but rather taking up more and more space is what's bad.

[No Guts No Glory]

Team Leader, on 23 March 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

On crap, I forgot about the weight. Make it 1 ton, or .5 ton, and only one slot, and it covers your whole mech.

The problem with changing how the weight and crit slot calculation works is that it if we ever see clan mechs it will screw with the variants and mechs that use it. What would you use the saved weight on in the stock mechs? Additional armor, heatsinks, ammo, etc would simply improve them and break away from the fluff of clan mechs running hot, with limited ammo, etc.

Besides, if you're gonna mess with the weight, just make it work like artemis. Something like 0.5 tons for each weapon or something. Hell, I'm not sure that would work either depending on how game changing being able to lock weapon convergence to a specific target would be. The TT way of calculating TC weight and crits would make it more beneficial to mechs running many lighter weapons ( 9 ML, 6 SL, etc ) while making it work like artemis would make it far more beneficial to designs like the gauss cat or AC20 Jager.

Honestly, I just can't see it being implemented in a way that works, is balanced, and makes it worth taking on something with many lighter weapons while still being worth taking on something with fewer heavier weapons.

Quote

Seriously, computers aren't that big.

Realistically, the weight of the TC would include Servomotors, actuators etc, to allow fine adjustment of the weapons within their torso and arm mounts thus increasing their accuracy by enabling very precise minute adjustments. Heavier weapons require more/stronger servos/actuators while lighter weapons simply need less. I'm not sure how the weight is explained in the fluff probably something like, "Durrrrrrrrr we forgot how to make microchips we had to use Vacuum Tubes brah, Lots and lots of vacuum tubes. Oh, and punch cards. ******* love punch cards."

Edited by No Guts No Glory, 23 March 2013 - 10:47 PM.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Well I had an idea I posted in suggestions about this already. Since the TC only works for direct fire weapons like lasers and AC's it shouldn't do anything for missiles at all. Instead, have it outline enemy mechs in a red halo or outline to make them easier to spot (maybe within a certain range). Also, to represent the ability to target specific locations, when your crosshair covers a specific section of an enemy mech, it gets highlighted (like when you select a location in loadout in the mechbay). The exception would be the head/cockpit which would just highlight the CT instead. And finally, have it improve the zoom function, say to 2x and 3.5 times instead of the standard 1.5x and 3x. That way it is not overpowering by making your weapons overall better, just giving you more tools to use skill with.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Team Leader, on 23 March 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

. Much like C3 network, we practically have it already.

No we don't; C3 shares TELEMETRY data. Mechs can share targeting data on their own without C3.

Edited by Astroniomix, 23 March 2013 - 11:16 PM.

[Utilyan]

How bout a audible cue to shoot. Thats the computer "assistance". Kinda like how if you currently shoot a tag and it hits your target turns red.....so instead of shooting a beam and doing a visual hit indicator when your aim is over a target you hear a audible beep of some kind. One type of beep for torso, another for arm aims. The targeting computer would be brutal vs still targets.


Lead reticle would be too OP. (they had this a long, long, long, long time ago.........back in the zone days for like first 5 noobie games........when they only had like frozen city........)

[Anony Mouse]

No Guts No Glory, on 23 March 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

Realistically, the weight of the TC would include Servomotors, actuators etc, to allow fine adjustment of the weapons within their torso and arm mounts thus increasing their accuracy by enabling very precise minute adjustments. Heavier weapons require more/stronger servos/actuators while lighter weapons simply need less. I'm not sure how the weight is explained in the fluff probably something like, "Durrrrrrrrr we forgot how to make microchips we had to use Vacuum Tubes brah, Lots and lots of vacuum tubes. Oh, and punch cards. ******* love punch cards."

This. Exactly. Also in canon a TC would lead a moving target, giving various degreas of "lock" tones representative of how good a firing solution it was. They were directly tied into the myomer musculature of the entire mech, able to steady it as it moved and manipulate the arms and torso for combat. Thing of it as a team of circus midgets with balance poles strapped all over a gigantic drunk, when working in perfect unison to keep the drunk on his feet. Even if thats a bad anaology its good imagery.

Tincan Nightmare, on 23 March 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

Well I had an idea I posted in suggestions about this already. Since the TC only works for direct fire weapons like lasers and AC's it shouldn't do anything for missiles at all. Instead, have it outline enemy mechs in a red halo or outline to make them easier to spot (maybe within a certain range). Also, to represent the ability to target specific locations, when your crosshair covers a specific section of an enemy mech, it gets highlighted (like when you select a location in loadout in the mechbay). The exception would be the head/cockpit which would just highlight the CT instead. And finally, have it improve the zoom function, say to 2x and 3.5 times instead of the standard 1.5x and 3x. That way it is not overpowering by making your weapons overall better, just giving you more tools to use skill with.

Wow thats spooky, I came here to make almost this exact suggestion. Though I wouldn't touch zoom, I would say the "Halo" effect should be a tinted outline, where the colors tinting the areas would match the target info paper doll on the hud (as in armor strength etc) and as the reticles lie over a location have the tint intensified to near solidity.

It should not effect weapon lock on times, nor missles. It should weight the 1 ton/1 crit per five tons of direct fire equipment as in TT. Accelerated convergence is a possibility but debatable, and another possible function could be a leader reticle. A leader reticle would be a third reticle, which estimates where you should aim in order to hit a moving target, though that may be deemed OP as it circumvents skill, the argument being juggling three reticles could be tricky, idk.

[ShadowDarter]

[Malora Sidewinder]

Section 8: Prejudice did a unique feature that I feel would be absolutely okay for a targeting computer. (BTW S8P is actually a great and highly underrated game, it's really quite fun)

that is to say, you press a button and the game locks onto the enemy you're shooting for you, and maintains the lock regardless of what you do with the controls. (I'd like to say that in order for this to not get abused, headshots should not be possible with a targeting computer)

what's that? horrendously broken and unfair, you say?

i guess i forgot to mention that the autolock lasts 3 seconds MAXIMUM and has roughly a 1 minute cool-down time.

having a 3 second aimbot every minute, once a minute wouldn't do very much, realistically. it'd be cute, useful in clutch situations (crit CT atlas vs crit CT light) but for the most part would do relatively nothing. good pilots can already keep reticle on target, so this would benefit new/unskilled players the most.

seems very fair for maybe a ton or two and a few crit slots.

for some perspective, if this exactly as is was dropped into the game tomorrow, i would NOT run it on my main mech. i've already used up all my crit slots, and i'd actually prefer to have an extra double heat sink over this for that particular mech.

[Khobai]

Targetting computer should let you aim for specific hit locations. Oh wait.

[Lyteros]

If it lets you autoaim it's very broken and OP.

I'd go with: Double to tripple the crosshair circle and it hits the biggestmechzone inside the circle, thus improving your aim somewhat (especially vs lights / fast mechs) but it should not be gamebreaking, if its to strong make the circle a little bit smaller again.
Apart from that let it show the different armorzones and where you would have to shoot - like it did in MW3.

[Tor6]

Malora Sidewinder, on 24 March 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

Section 8: Prejudice did a unique feature that I feel would be absolutely okay for a targeting computer. (BTW S8P is actually a great and highly underrated game, it's really quite fun)

that is to say, you press a button and the game locks onto the enemy you're shooting for you, and maintains the lock regardless of what you do with the controls. (I'd like to say that in order for this to not get abused, headshots should not be possible with a targeting computer)

what's that? horrendously broken and unfair, you say?

i guess i forgot to mention that the autolock lasts 3 seconds MAXIMUM and has roughly a 1 minute cool-down time.

having a 3 second aimbot every minute, once a minute wouldn't do very much, realistically. it'd be cute, useful in clutch situations (crit CT atlas vs crit CT light) but for the most part would do relatively nothing. good pilots can already keep reticle on target, so this would benefit new/unskilled players the most.

seems very fair for maybe a ton or two and a few crit slots.

for some perspective, if this exactly as is was dropped into the game tomorrow, i would NOT run it on my main mech. i've already used up all my crit slots, and i'd actually prefer to have an extra double heat sink over this for that particular mech.

Hex-PPC stalkers should definitely NOT get to make a 'called shot' every minute.