164 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

I've been playing MWO hardcore for a week, and reading the forums rabidly when I'm not playing. It's truly remarkable how many threads I've read which feature the same words, over and over...

''But it's a Beta''...

So I'm now going to pop my cockpit, stick my head out of the canopy, and risk you giving me 2 x AC-20s to the face if you think I'm off the mark with the following observations...

MWO is not in Beta. It's time to stop claiming that it is, and using that as an excuse.

I'm a MechWarrior of 29 years experience. And I am loving playing MWO. I'll be buying some MechCredits soon, both to accelerate my acquisition of new tech, and to reward the devs for what they've built so far. However, after a couple of hundred matches, I feel I can also recognise that the game currently has some flaws and omissions. And that, two days ago, some new flaws were introduced, along with the welcome new content. As a fan, I want to see these flaws and omissions addressed post haste, so that this good game fulfills its potential, and becomes great.

That's why I think it's time for everyone - developers, players, fans and critics - to stop using ''but it's a Beta'' as an excuse for leaving longstanding bugs unaddressed, and releasing patches which haven't been sufficiently tested.

MWO is not in Beta...

1. MWO is open for play by anyone who wants to sign up. It already has thousands of players.
2. MWO's developers are selling products - MechCredits - and the game is producing revenue.
3. MWO is not a closed trial of code being tested and readied for launch, with a focus on reporting of bugs, analysis of balance, and incremental patches addressing bugs and balance issues. In fact, MWO's developers are focusing on earning income first, adding new content and features second, and squashing bugs third. (If MWO was a Beta, their order of priority would be reversed.)

MWO is not in Beta. It has launched. It's live. People are playing it, and paying for it. We should stop using ''but it's a Beta'' as an excuse for not addressing longstanding bugs, and releasing code which has new bugs.

By the way, I have no problem with the developers seeking to earn income for their work. In fact, I want them to get rich. I want them to make this game so fantastic, so that it becomes so successful, that they can afford to hire lots more devs to focus on QA, fix the bugs, add more content, and make this game of the year. Nothing would make me happier, or even more prepared to part with my own cash.

But I'd prefer we called ''emperor's new clothes'' on the whole ''but it's a Beta'' gambit. MWO is launched. It's disingenuous - and unnecessary - to claim otherwise. It's time for the devs to step up to production level quality assurance.

[Kooler]

It's an open beta with microtransactions (or macro depending on if your buying assault heros)

Game is still in testing , the devs have stated the game release is this year.

Just because it's not your definition of a beta doesn't mean it doesn't fit under my definition of a beta. We shall agree to disagree

Edited by Kooler, 04 April 2013 - 12:52 PM.

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

Appogee, on 04 April 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

I've been playing MWO hardcore for a week, and reading the forums rabidly when I'm not playing. It's truly remarkable how many threads I've read which feature the same words, over and over...

''But it's a Beta''...

So I'm now going to pop my cockpit, stick my head out of the canopy, and risk you giving me 2 x AC-20s to the face if you think I'm off the mark with the following observations...

MWO is not in Beta. It's time to stop claiming that it is, and using that as an excuse.

I'm a MechWarrior of 29 years experience. And I am loving playing MWO. I'll be buying some MechCredits soon, both to accelerate my acquisition of new tech, and to reward the devs for what they've built so far. However, after a couple of hundred matches, I feel I can also recognise that the game currently has some flaws and omissions. And that, two days ago, some new flaws were introduced, along with the welcome new content. As a fan, I want to see these flaws and omissions addressed post haste, so that this good game fulfills its potential, and becomes great.

That's why I think it's time for everyone - developers, players, fans and critics - to stop using ''but it's a Beta'' as an excuse for leaving longstanding bugs unaddressed, and releasing patches which haven't been sufficiently tested.

MWO is not in Beta...

1. MWO is open for play by anyone who wants to sign up. It already has thousands of players.
2. MWO's developers are selling products - MechCredits - and the game is producing revenue.
3. MWO is not a closed trial of code being tested and readied for launch, with a focus on reporting of bugs, analysis of balance, and incremental patches addressing bugs and balance issues. In fact, MWO's developers are focusing on earning income first, adding new content and features second, and squashing bugs third. (If MWO was a Beta, their order of priority would be reversed.)

MWO is not in Beta. It has launched. It's live. People are playing it, and paying for it. We should stop using ''but it's a Beta'' as an excuse for not addressing longstanding bugs, and releasing code which has new bugs.

By the way, I have no problem with the developers seeking to earn income for their work. In fact, I want them to get rich. I want them to make this game so fantastic, so that it becomes so successful, that they can afford to hire lots more devs to focus on QA, fix the bugs, add more content, and make this game of the year. Nothing would make me happier, or even more prepared to part with my own cash.

But I'd prefer we called ''emperor's new clothes'' on the whole ''but it's a Beta'' gambit. MWO is launched. It's disingenuous - and unnecessary - to claim otherwise. It's time for the devs to step up to production level quality assurance.

Players have been saying this since the first Hero mech launched

[Davers]

You may not like the terminology, but the fact is the game is not in a complete stage and is still being actively worked on and added to. Not just content like mechs and maps, but actual core parts of the game. So you can call it whatever you like, but it is an work in progress.

[BlackWidow]

Ok fine. You can have it your way. Since it's open to every one and they can take payments from you let's not pretend. It's NOT beta.

But get this. It's a soft release of a game that is STILL IN ACTIVE DEVELOPMENT. Do you have a moniker for that? No you don't because they never really existed before the past few months.

So, come up with a new name of give me the 'official' one that is being used currently and will go with that and everyone can shut up about the WHOLE beta/non-beta crap.

And then we can move ot to even MORE tedious topics like what the true definition of F2P and P2W are and whether MWO falls firmly in one category or the other. No thanks.

[Roadbeer]

Yawn. Wrong.

It's not Beta, it's not release, old terms need to be redefined.

I can use the argument that I've paid for Beta before when I paid $45 for a disc and shipping back in the UO days, before you could download a whole game in less time than it takes to eat lunch, and it was explained how I was wrong in my analogy, meh, whatever.

Anyone who thinks this game is release when 2/3 of it's 'pillars' haven't even been implemented yet, is completely off their rocker. And anyone who says that that fact doesn't mean anything when it can be released as DLC expansions doesn't understand the concept of what a 'Release" product is.

Edited by Roadbeer, 04 April 2013 - 12:54 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

It's a beta as long as the developers say it's a beta. LOTS of games have open public betas. LOTS of games start selling items during beta. Just because a gamei s nto closed does nto mean it is not a beta.

If you don't like being in an open beta, you can go. If you think it is not a beta, doesn't change what it is to the developers.
Complaining about it isn't going to change anything.

[DCLXVI]

if it was beta they would be banning people for farming, tking, ect.. a lot faster with an invitation to come back and fool around when its released

[Belorion]

Some people claim its still in Alpha. You guys and those guys kind of equal out...

So that means we are in beta. With release at the end of Summer.

[Appogee]

I respect your opinions.

While we can argue about the definition of what a Beta is or isn't, my key concern is that ''it's a Beta'' seems to get used to excuse issues which have apparently remained unaddressed for months, and that a patch was released which was so insufficiently QA'd that it broke the game for many players.

I am quite willing to hear that I am wrong, or that I'm too new to understand. But the cry of ''it's only a Beta'' did really strike me as odd given what I've seen and am seeing.

[xDeityx]

BlackWidow, on 04 April 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

So, come up with a new name of give me the 'official' one that is being used currently and will go with that and everyone can shut up about the WHOLE beta/non-beta crap.

"Payta" works.

[Zphyr]

Seriously, who cares anymore?

While "it's beta" is a poor excuse for anything, MWO is indeed still in active development phase. Also, plenty of OB games have micro-transactions. Why cry about it? We, you, they pay because we, you, they want to - all the while knowing that it's in Beta. Move one, gents.

[zhajin]

Beta is a marketing term with no meaning these days. unfinished games hide behind it. not that its really any different than all the games in the past that just "released" unfinished. but the people yelling its a beta on the forums are nothing more than marketing lemmings...

[Roadbeer]

Belorion, on 04 April 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Some people claim its still in Alpha. You guys and those guys kind of equal out...

So that means we are in beta. With release at the end of Summer.

I use the term ALPETA, which is not only descriptive, but sounds delicious.

[Syllogy]

Edited by Syllogy, 04 April 2013 - 01:07 PM.

[Appogee]

Elements of Russ Bullock's post of 26 October seems to support my contention...


''Open Beta launch will represent the FINAL data wipe, therefore players will be starting over one last time.''

''There are just limits to what we can do and how long we can hold off on launching the product.''

I am quoting selectively from a longer post. But it sounds to me a lot like an explanation for moving from Beta to launch, just saying.

[Syllogy]

Appogee, on 04 April 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Elements of Russ Bullock's post of 26 October seems to support my contention...


''Open Beta launch will represent the FINAL data wipe, therefore players will be starting over one last time.''

''There are just limits to what we can do and how long we can hold off on launching the product.''

I am quoting selectively from a longer post. But it sounds to me a lot like an explanation for moving from Beta to launch, just saying.

I fixed it for you.

Edited by Syllogy, 04 April 2013 - 01:08 PM.

[l4Dl]

"Beta" (the definition as a whole) isn't what it used to be, previous to 2010~, beta was a term used for very specific (usually closed) testing of a product before sales to the general public.

That isn't the case anymore.
Beta is too widely used by all companies as a process of classing the product as "ready for sale", however, "beta covers us legally if things go wrong".

Its not really PGi's fault, the whole "Beta" as a sale product is now second nature. Just look at all the Facebook games with "Beta" status and making millions, its insane.

This is the way i see the current games market definition of "Beta":
Alpha = Internal Testing
Closed Beta = Initial Funding/testing. Deny refunds as game is "Beta"
Open Beta = Mass Funding/testing. Deny refunds as game is "Beta"
Release = When we know we cant be sued for any faults on our part. Deny refunds initially, then, commit to them.

Welcome to 2013 game development!

Edited by l4Dl, 04 April 2013 - 01:14 PM.

[BLUPRNT]

Beta, definition of,
: a nearly complete prototype of a product (as software) <released in beta> <the beta version>
http://www.merriam-w...dictionary/beta

Or

http://www.internets...-definition.asp

I don't see how "us giving them money by OUR choice" or "that it is open to all public for free access by OUR choice" changes this definition.

[jakucha]

OP, because people can buy stuff for cash does not magically take away the fact that core content is still being added. Don't want to call it a beta? That's cool, but it doesn't mean it's release state. You must not be familiar with F2P betas anyway.

Path of Exile is another example.

Edited by jakucha, 04 April 2013 - 01:11 PM.