64 replies to this topic

[Swervedriver]

Now that we are less than two weeks away from launch, I have a radical suggestion.

We are about to get an influx of players (hopefully). However, the speed in which your mech can get creamed in game could be a real turn off for many. Several of my real life friends have tried the game, and every single one of them was put off by the speed in which their mechs were bombed out. They couldn't stand it, and moved on...never to return despite my best recruiting efforts.

The solution to this isn't nerfing the gauss rifle or the PPCs or turning perfectly good weapon systems or loadouts into unusable combos. The solution is Quadruple Armor.

PGI has already doubled armor from Table Top, and everyone was extremely receptive.

I believe that Quadruple Armor would satisfy just about everyone.

Think of the many benefits:

-Your mech will live longer, making the game more enjoyable for many.

-15 minute matches might actually happen..meaning less c-bills will be earned overall. This is something PGI has been trying to address. Simple solution: Quadruple Armor!

-No more funky changes to the weapon systems: That Dual PPC/Gauss blast can be shrugged off a few times while your team closes in on the Pop Tart.

-Brawling will become more viable and more fun due to lengthier engagements. You might actually live long enough for your teammates to arrive on scene.

-Heat becomes an ongoing concern and must be managed properly. Heat in the current meta, despite PGI's best efforts, remains an afterthought.

-Ammo will run out. Some people may complain, but Quadruple Armor will force more energy weapons and varied loadouts. This could make the end-game more interesting...

-It will be easier for newer players to integrate: More money for PGI

-Light & Medium Mechs will live longer and play more role warfare instead of being 1 alpha trashcans.

I see the benefits of Quadruple Armor to be many...and this would address some of the gameplay balance concerns that PGI seems to have trouble addressing.

I also think it will make the game more fun.

Discuss....

Edited by Swervedriver, 05 September 2013 - 10:22 AM.

[Lord Perversor]

Swervedriver, on 05 September 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Now that we are less than two weeks away from launch, I have a radical suggestion.

We are about to get an influx of players (hopefully). However, the speed in which your mech can get creamed in game could be a real turn off for many. Several of my real life friends have tried the game, and every single one of them was put off by the speed in which their mechs were bombed out. They couldn't stand it, and moved on...never to return despite my best recruiting efforts.

The solution to this isn't nerfing the gauss rifle or the PPCs or turning perfectly good weapon systems or loadouts into unusable combos. The solution is Quadruple Armor.

PGI has already doubled armor from Table Top, and everyone was extremely receptive.

I believe that Quadruple Armor would satisfy just about everyone.

Think of the many benefits:

-Your mech will live longer, making the game more enjoyable for many.

-15 minute matches might actually happen..meaning less c-bills will be earned overall. This is something PGI has been trying to address. Simple solution: Quadruple Armor!

-No more funky changes to the weapon systems: That Dual PPC/Gauss blast can be shrugged off a few times while your team closes in on the Pop Tart.

-Brawling will become more viable and more fun due to lengthier engagements. You might actually live long enough for your teammates to arrive on scene.

-Ammo will run out. Some people may complain, but Quadruple Armor will force more energy weapons and varied loadouts. This could make the end-game more interesting...

-It will be easier for newer players to integrate: More money for PGI

-Light & Medium Mechs will live longer and play more role warfare instead of being 1 alpha trashcans.

I see the benefits of Quadruple Armor to be many...and this would address some of the gameplay balance concerns that PGI seems to have trouble addressing.

I also think it will make the game more fun.

Discuss....

Nvm i'm ashamed to recognize i fell to the troll..

Edited by Lord Perversor, 05 September 2013 - 09:07 AM.

[Hellcat420]

this is a horrible idea. it will have no bearing on weapon balance other than making ballistic weapons almost worthless.

Edited by Hellcat420, 05 September 2013 - 09:07 AM.

[Khobai]

I would rather see internal structure increased instead of armor.

Because increasing internal structure doesnt change the number of armor point per ton like increasing armor does. So all our builds would remain exactly the same.

Additionally increasing internal structure would solve the problem with crits not mattering because the location gets destroyed before the items are destroyed.

[Swervedriver]

Lord Perversor, on 05 September 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

This just this.. so ammo running out makes more variable loadout? it will be energy Mech online and that's it all.
This would kill almost any build with ballistic.

The idea of ballistics (with the exception of the new, awful "upgraded" gauss) is quick damage when needed. Quadruple Armor will force you to conserve. I don't have a problem with it.

Triple UAC/5 Iyla Muromets would still be extremely useful to tear apart that Quad Armored Atlas leading the charge against your position, but you may want to consider adding a couple lasers in the mix.

Frankly, mixed energy and ballistic loadouts are typically what BattleTech was all about. There will always be room for special variants that are ammo dependent.

But go check out the Technical Readouts. You'll be hard pressed to find mechs that feature only ballistic & missiles with no energy back up. There's only a few variants that are all energy boats.

A few more Awesome 8Qs roaming the field wouldn't be the end of the MWO.

[Swervedriver]

Khobai, on 05 September 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

I would rather see internal structure increased instead of armor.

Because increasing internal structure doesnt change the number of armor point per ton like increasing armor does. So all our builds would remain exactly the same.

Additionally increasing internal structure would solve the problem with crits not mattering because the location gets destroyed before the items are destroyed.

When PGI doubled the armor in Closed Beta, it didn't change anything in terms of loadouts. All it did was give mechs more survivability. It added tremendously to the quality of the game, and matches weren't ending within 3 minutes of first contact.

This is about making the game appealing. People want more pew pew, bang bang & whoosh...not **** I just died in 3 seconds after I turned that corner.

Edited by Swervedriver, 05 September 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[Roland]

The more you increase armor, the less effective the bad players are gonna be.

Sure, you think that it'll make you die less.. but the reality is that you'll just die even more, perhaps after a slightly longer period of time, but you will NEVER kill the better players.

You'll just lose even more.

[MustrumRidcully]

I wonder why it's never triple armor, or 2.5 armor?

Roland, on 05 September 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

The more you increase armor, the less effective the bad players are gonna be.

Sure, you think that it'll make you die less.. but the reality is that you'll just die even more, perhaps after a slightly longer period of time, but you will NEVER kill the better players.

You'll just lose even more.

The value in raising armor across the board has is to slow down gameplay a bit, and it can give players more breathing room for error. It can also make heat into more of an issue. The Quad PPC Stalkers of old also relied on being able to deliver deadly or crippling amounts of damage before their heat cap was used up, if you suddenly need to deal 50 % or 100 % more, then your heat cap runs out too early. That's what you get if you treat heat as regenerating ammo.

It doesn't do all that much about skill, I think. The extra forgiveness tends to help skilled players, too, after all, since no one is perfect. I suspect it might raise the skill floor. But quick thinking and precise shooting will still be a significant advantage.

It can be a stylistic thing only. Those MW:O videos always looks like mechs are exploding after about 3 shots, where the general feel of the game should (or shouldn't it) be more of two giants duking it over a longer period of time.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 05 September 2013 - 09:32 AM.

[Szkarlat M]

No thanks. Mechs are pretty rugged already with double armor.
I never feel like my Mech dies too fast. When I do die fast, its because I made a mistake.
As Hellcat said, ammo reliant mechs would be disadvantaged unless you want to double ammo aswell...

Another point to note is that this would increase match time like you stated Swervedriver.
Matches average around 8 minutes right now according to PGI. If you increase the mech armour games will take even longer increasing time required to grind C-Bills.

That would be even less noob friendly then dying. Dying leads you to try increase your effectiveness and you will need to tinker with mechs. C-Bills are synonymous with survival for newbies.

Edited by Mike W, 05 September 2013 - 09:34 AM.

[Chrithu]

Roland, on 05 September 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

The more you increase armor, the less effective the bad players are gonna be.

Sure, you think that it'll make you die less.. but the reality is that you'll just die even more, perhaps after a slightly longer period of time, but you will NEVER kill the better players.

You'll just lose even more.

This.

Balancing with new players in mind allthough it may appear otherwise is NEVER a good idea.

Why?

Because new players have a hard time because of lack of experience and practice. NOTHING you could do balance wise will EVER change that. Thus any balancing change that makes something stronger will just make live harder for a beginner.

Why?

Because of practice and experience veteran players will make exponentially more use of any buffs than any beginner could and thus roll the beginners even harder.

[Cael Voltek]

I think an issue at play here are traditional FPS/MMO players are used to a respawn. This concept of die and you're out is foreign to them.

Also, this isn't a traditional FPS/MMO. And that's the way, uh-huh, uh-huh, I like it.

[Swervedriver]

MustrumRidcully, on 05 September 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

I wonder why it's never triple armor, or 2.5 armor?



The value in raising armor across the board has is to slow down gameplay a bit, and it can give players more breathing room for error. It can also make heat into more of an issue. The Quad PPC Stalkers of old also relied on being able to deliver deadly or crippling amounts of damage before their heat cap was used up, if you suddenly need to deal 50 % or 100 % more, then your heat cap runs out too early. That's what you get if you treat heat as regenerating ammo.

It doesn't do all that much about skill, I think. The extra forgiveness tends to help skilled players, too, after all, since no one is perfect. I suspect it might raise the skill floor. But quick thinking and precise shooting will still be a significant advantage.

It can be a stylistic thing only. Those MW:O videos always looks like mechs are exploding after about 3 shots, where the general feel of the game should (or shouldn't it) be more of two giants duking it over a longer period of time.

Exactly.

-heat finally becoming an issue to deal with. as it stands now, it's almost a non-concern.

-Slowing the game down, just a bit...will help suck new players in and keep them there.

I just see too many benefits, and very little drawback to not double the armor once more.

I think you'll see a much wider variety of mechs. You'll see more hair balls and knock down drag outs that can last more than 1 minute. The kinds of things that made BattleTech so much fun in the first place.

[Swervedriver]

Cael Voltek, on 05 September 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

I think an issue at play here are traditional FPS/MMO players are used to a respawn. This concept of die and you're out is foreign to them.

Also, this isn't a traditional FPS/MMO. And that's the way, uh-huh, uh-huh, I like it.

Quadruple Armor woudn't change any of that. You'll still die. You'll still sit and stare until the end of the match.

The only difference will be you'll actually get to fight a few more rounds prior to your glorious (or inglorious) death.

Did I post ANYTHING about respawn? No.

[Ser Barristan]

You end up screwing over lights and mediums. Sure they can take a little bit more damage but you've also scaled back their damage output to a pittance. They simply wouldn't be able to scratch the paint on an assault or heavy.

[Cael Voltek]

Swervedriver, on 05 September 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

Quadruple Armor woudn't change any of that. You'll still die. You'll still sit and stare until the end of the match.

The only difference will be you'll actually get to fight a few more rounds prior to your glorious (or inglorious) death.

Did I post ANYTHING about respawn? No.

Settle down Sparky. I was referring to what might cause some new players a bit of frustration. You know, stating an opinion. Either that, or your friends share the same "stick up their backsides" issue that you have going on today.

But, I digress. As stated, lasting longer will be more detrimental in the long run than dying, dropping match, jumping in a different BSR and dropping again. You realize you can drop match and get into a different BSR, right? You don't have to "stare until the end of the match". Maybe you need to figure out how the game works.

[Kaldor]

Increase internal health

That is all that is needed

Quoting post below for truth

Khobai, on 05 September 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

I would rather see internal structure increased instead of armor. Because increasing internal structure doesnt change the number of armor point per ton like increasing armor does. So all our builds would remain exactly the same. Additionally increasing internal structure would solve the problem with crits not mattering because the location gets destroyed before the items are destroyed.

[Swervedriver]

Cael Voltek, on 05 September 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Settle down Sparky. I was referring to what might cause some new players a bit of frustration. You know, stating an opinion. Either that, or your friends share the same "stick up their backsides" issue that you have going on today.

But, I digress. As stated, lasting longer will be more detrimental in the long run than dying, dropping match, jumping in a different BSR and dropping again. You realize you can drop match and get into a different BSR, right? You don't have to "stare until the end of the match". Maybe you need to figure out how the game works.

You *****. Of course I know I can drop the match and launch again.

I've been playing since closed beta.

[Tezcatli]

Increase internal hit points. It's usually not hard for people to knock out my internals with any weapon.

[Swervedriver]

Kaldor, on 05 September 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Increase internal health

That is all that is needed

Quoting post below for truth

Requiring twice as much damage to blow off an armor panel achieves that same thing. When PGI doubled the armor from table top figures, it didn't change any load outs. It made the game more fun.

As it stands, the internals are balanced just fine. It still takes a few well placed shots to finish off a stick man.

[NinetyProof]

What is the difference between "bufffing" armor and "nerfing" weapons? Oh ... there isn't one.

I don't think either is really necessary as "n00bs" don't die very fast cause other "n00bies" can aim to save their lives, and make terrible builds that are not effective anyways.

If your "goals" is to make the game better for "n00bs", they need to keep them in the n00b queue longer, and be more strict on ELO around the "starter" band.