210 replies to this topic

[Recon777]

As a contrast to this thread, I'd like to say that the absolute worst way a game can end is like this:



WTF?!!

Seriously, this kind of cap abusing is way worse a problem than those who complain about capping at all. Yes capping has a place in Assault games, but it should NOT be rushed. That just wastes the time of a dozen people because nobody benefits from it. The only thing it accomplishes is to end the match early.

[MortVent]

defense... heard of it?

If nobody bothers to run back till base is mostly captured, you lose

If it's possible for me to make it back, I defend. If not I'll try to cap/fight to the end.

But on some maps... ya just going to have a base run if you pick the wrong routes

[Recon777]

Have *I* heard of base defense? I'll let you decide.


I have no issue with base capping as a part of the game, and the idea of the lights rushing back to take care of it (like I did here in the above video) can be quite thrilling. This is not the type of game I'm talking about. I'm talking about a game where the entire enemy team concentrates itself to getting an early cap rush, for no reason at all. They didn't even bother to engage us in battle. Its fine if base capping is a part of the strategy to distract the enemy and draw off part of their forces so you can take out their heavies without light support. But that is not what is going on here in my original post. There was no reaction plan which would have stopped a base cap rush like this. When enough mechs are standing in the base, the cap goes REALLY fast. Much faster than you can react, even with lights.

Edited by Recon777, 29 September 2013 - 08:21 AM.

[MortVent]

The catch is, lights should have told ya it was a rush so you can counter it.

But if everyone forms a skirmish line and none scout, yeah it's gonna happen. The lights should have said they are rushing base and your team could move to intercept/counter

[Farix]

You are playing Capture the Flag and your entire team sat there and didn't go back to defend your flag until it was too late. Shouldn't blame the mode or your enemy when your team uses bad tactics.

[Recon777]

Capture the Flag? This isn't Team Fortress.

Also, if you noticed, it was only a minute between the initial warning of base cap and when it was finished. People didn't just sit there. We all tried to return to base, but there simply wasn't time. The entire enemy team must have been sitting on the base to make it go that fast.

And... what is the purpose, really? If there was some incentive to capture a base in Assault mode, then I could totally see what you are saying as valid, and there SHOULD be someone keeping a watch out for cap rushes. But this is not how the scoring system works. There is NO advantage of the cap rush. Even the team doing the rush gets no credit for doing so. They would get paid much more by actually fighting. When I started playing I did some early cap rushes myself, because I assumed I got credit for doing so. When I learned that this is not the case, I stopped doing that.

Edited by Recon777, 29 September 2013 - 08:40 AM.

[MortVent]

capture accelerator modules

Will speed up a base capture to the point a couple lights can cap you out before a slowboat can get back. which is why it's a good idea to have scouts out and one or two defenders

[Farix]

So for you, it is all about the C-bills. But that's not true for all players. Some don't give a damn about C-bills and simply want to win.

It is unfortunate that the rewards for Assault are so screwed up. It sucks that actions that helps your team win aren't rewarded and only the actions related to combat given rewards. In fact, I proposed a number of changes to Assault not long ago to encourage players to play it more like Capture the Flag and less like a Team Death Match. However, it doesn't seem to have gotten much attention.

But with all that said, players are going to play Assault as Capture the Flag and all the chest thumping, fist waving, and gnashing of teeth by those who play it as Team Death Match are not going to change that.

[Recon777]

When you've been playing two weeks, yeah its about cbills because of how slow cbills accumulate, the rewards system should be tuned to give rewards to people for playing a good game. And I agree that this is not simply in getting kills, but the fact remains that in assault mode, there are no cbills for capping. And anyone who realizes this isn't going to cap if they want to be able to buy new equipment. Its not about the cbills as a status thing, its about what those cbills will buy you. I think playing for chest thumping is pointless. My personality is very pragmatic, and I want a tangible reward for my efforts. I don't have a need for trophy hunting or ladder climbing.

[Farix]

If your focus is entirely on C-bills, you should play Conquest instead. It tends to pay out more because there is almost always some form of combat at one of the control point and you also get C-bills for the resources your team gains. But don't go complaining that other players don't care about C-bills when they play and instead care about winning. Winning more often actually improves their Elo Rankings.

[Strayed]

Watch the last match of the MWO tournament. It's pretty much how the game is meant to be played. You are meant to use recon to gain intel on what the enemy are doing and react. Too often people are content to sit in one big blob.

Communication = Victory

[R Razor]

If your focus is on capturing a point then you should play conquest and stop screwing the game up for the folks that want to fight.

Assault mode should have capping disabled for the first 7.5 minutes just so phallic craniums don't rush and are forced to fight.

[MadPanda]

From my observations, cap wars on assault happen only on certain maps, and by certain maps I mean river city night. And I'm perfectly okay in ending that crappy maps existance in a couple of a minute walk.

[MortVent]

Caps happen a lot on some maps, simply because it's too easy for the blobs to miss each other, or someone really wants to get off it fast (terra therma, river city night, etc)

[L Y N X]

Recon777, you were part of a really bad team. If your team would have RTB (return to base) immediately upon notification it was being capped, then the game would have went the way you would have liked. Many folks consider a win, a win by any legal means a legitimate win. I tend to be one of those folks. I plan to fight for planets and if this kind of win would capture a planet, (I have low expectation that it would versus a highly competitive 12 man premade team) then heck yeah I'd use it.

I try to convince my pug teams to RTB all or none. It becomes a well fought game if everyone RTB's or it can become a cap race which is boring but at least it is over quickly. It is still a legitimate victory condition, until and/or if PGI changes it. But you can look on the bright side... Deathmatch mode is coming, I just hope PGI limits deathmatch to the smaller maps.

[XphR]

A kid sits down in a field to play jacks, in the middle of a game of red rover, gets trampled and ... here come the tears. Of course he cries, he was oblivious to the other children already fielding a game. You can show up and play jacks, but dont be surprised if a few get melted or stuck in your forehead.

The goals are: Attack and defend or destroy all enemy mechs.

To accomplish "destroy all enemy mechs" you will also have to "defend" or risk "loss".

Controlling the line of battle is something done with force and subterfuge.

Some people make ten trips to the river for water.. others plug the hole in the bucket and make two.

[Recon777]

Farix, on 29 September 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

If your focus is entirely on C-bills, you should play Conquest instead. It tends to pay out more because there is almost always some form of combat at one of the control point and you also get C-bills for the resources your team gains. But don't go complaining that other players don't care about C-bills when they play and instead care about winning. Winning more often actually improves their Elo Rankings.

I've found Assault pays more cbills quicker than Conquest, because in Assault mode, I get more than twice as many cbills per assist. And a kill assist is very easy to get since you just have to hit somebody once and if they end up dying that's 6500 cbills for you. Also I get a fair number of savior kills. Conquest pays very limited amounts not dependent on your fighting ability and requires much more sitting and waiting. I'm trying to make mechs that are good at fighting, and hoping to get paid well for that at some point.

Also, what is this "Elo Rank" you speak of?

R Razor, on 29 September 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

If your focus is on capturing a point then you should play conquest and stop screwing the game up for the folks that want to fight.

Assault mode should have capping disabled for the first 7.5 minutes just so phallic craniums don't rush and are forced to fight.

Exactly. This would help a LOT.

MadPanda, on 29 September 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

From my observations, cap wars on assault happen only on certain maps, and by certain maps I mean river city night. And I'm perfectly okay in ending that crappy maps existance in a couple of a minute walk.

Did you watch the video? It wasn't RCN. But honestly if it were, I would not be complaining about it either.

Edited by Recon777, 29 September 2013 - 03:37 PM.

[L Y N X]

so basically you are complaining that you were part of a really bad team that did not RTB... nothing to see here, please move along...

[Recon777]

I'd really like to know what the alternative to PUG is. I keep hearing about people who play in games other than with random uncoordinated morons, but how does one find such games?

Also, seriously did you happen to notice it was just ONE minute between first warning and end of cap? From what I could see, it appeared the team WAS trying to RTB but there simply was not time. I know I personally turned around when I figured out what was going on but I had to negotiate the caldera rim and was in a slow Catapult.

Edited by Recon777, 29 September 2013 - 04:57 PM.

[Burke IV]

Recon that is a very good question. When you find out you let me know.

Defending is good. I say lets defend but often dont even get an answer. I think they are roleplaying or something....


Edit: just in case, i didnt watch the video

Edited by Burke IV, 29 September 2013 - 05:30 PM.