210 replies to this topic

[Gladewolf]

R Razor, on 30 September 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

Yes, winning is nice and it sucks to have losing steaks.......I'll ***** and moan with the best of them when I have one.......but the excitement of the fight is what brings me back even while on that losing streak. When people who's only goal in life is to rush to the cap take away that chance for a fight the game becomes less than appealing.
You can blather on all you want about staying and defending but that is only a valid tactic if either ALL of your team does it, or if the enemy only attacks with a part of his team............and here's a news flash for ya bub, most PUGS don't give a rodents posterior about your requests to stay and defend (or flank here, or rush there or any other suggestion you might have) as all they want to do is either find the enemy and fight or, much like yourself, rush the enemy base and cap.

Interesting....you seem to be forgetting which group is having their gaming experience ruined....see that's you, because YOU are the one that can't seem to figure out how to deal with cappers...because YOU are the one that believes he must stand in a gigantic pile of mechs and wander away from the cap WITHOUT looking for your enemy. YOU ARE THE ONE GETTING CAPPED WITHOUT A FIGHT. YOU and those like YOU are ruining your OWN GAMING EXPERIENCE. Never once did I mention being elite...I'm far from it, but I can, at the very least, pay attention to the win conditions of the game I'm playing...and act accordingly. So....for the last time, if you want to have that epic fight....in that match that is being CAPPED OUT...go to your base and kill your opponents, or scout for them in the first place. No dumbing the game down, thanks.

[Burke IV]

Majorfatboy, dont dispair. Maybe one day this game will be about objectives and war and the c bills will come from contract completion and salvage will be important. If and hopefully when that time comes the lights will be exactly equal to every other mech and will be highly prized for what they can do. A drop without lights will be suicide. What we have now for assult... its a placeholder. Assult? it should be 1 team attacking a fortified base and one team defending. Thats assult. Calliope turrets and reinforced concrete walls.

[Majorfatboy]

JeffGoldblum, on 01 October 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

TL:DR Cowardly cappers try to give lame excuses for their lack of skill.

Move along people, nothing else to see here.

Well duders, maybe if you actually read some of the comments here, you'd see this is not always the case. Here, I was planning on starting a thread about this, but I'll use it here first:



Earlier today, at about 11:20 AM US central time, I dropped into a quick round with My Jenner. I thought I'd try some old school scouting at first, rat-out the enemy team's position to My team, then join the fight and back-bite any poor assault who got to far from the pack. I have a Cap assist module, but that's only for those "special occasions".
The matchmaker, in it's infinite wisdom, put 6 (SIX) lights on My team, along with a fair mix of other classes. I set off, following an ECM Spider to the left. Eventually the other lights join up, it starts to look like another cap rush.... Sigh.
I stop at a high ledge, where I can spot our opponents. Surprisingly, My light pug pals join Me. So We start to see the enemy come in, and I start reporting what I see over team chat. I start to see the whole of the enemy team's composition.....

That's when the horror of the situation came in.
It was ALL Heavies and assaults, save for one or two. They are playing smart, marching in a tight group. I sound off on team chat something to the effect of: "Jesus, that's a BIG group!". Then the rest of the team catches sight.
We are out-gunned, out-armored, and royally screwed. Even if all six of our lights joined the fight, with our opponents that closely grouped, We'd be cut to ribbons.
From the non-light-side of our team comes "lights CAP", "CAPCAPCAP" and so forth. Our light brigade hauled-*** across the map, where we encountered an Jager a few hundred meters outside their base. We took him out, and were met by an enemy Jenner. Half our lights stayed behind to run defense, the rest of us did warp factor 9001 to the cap. Our other six players were getting stepped on by the superior sized enemy force.

Capping was the only way we'd ever get a win out of those conditions.

So Jeff, You ever so powerful player, you who obviously know everything in this game and have only the greatest of skill, what would you have done. Please tell us, oh mighty skill-lord? And when You are done with that, then please magically bestow upon all other players your skill, and then conjure up a matchmaker that actually works, and then call forth from Valhalla game modes that actually give light mechs some purpose other then capper/harasser.
And don't say conquest, that's a joke.

[Kitane]

Winning through base rush screws up people who still have the 2x daily bonus.

Wasting it on an empty victory with no damage and kills is worse than rewards from average loss.

[Spawnsalot]

I don't get this "the only thing lights can do is cap" mentality.

I'm just polishing off my 3rd elited commando at the moment and I have brawled and head-hunted all the way with each variant, it's great fun - amongst other things I've gone toe to toe with Atlases, dissected AC/40 Jaegers and had plenty of vicious knife-fights with other lights. I think I capped maybe 3 times the whole time.

So, all you naysayers, I encourage you: Put on your big boy pants and get stuck in! Win or lose there's some seriously good fun out there and I promise, it's way more engaging that checking out the textures on the drilling platform!

[Lefteye Falconeer]

It would be easily solved if PGI remembered to put on a very simple mechanism: no base capping in assault in the first 5 minutes.

[Magna Canus]

I dont have any screenshots at hand (at work currently), but I have also encountered matches (a lot of them) with vast tonage difference. In such cases capping is really the only way out.

I also agree that it is a terrible waste for those with the x2 SP they were hoping to take advantage of.

It is really hard, if not impossible, to convince people in a PUG match to defend the base and if some do hang back and the enemy does not go for our base, their Tonnage and skill is wasted and often enough sorely missed on the front.

I agree that assault should be about the fighting and cap should be the "last resort" for teams that get out gunned. No matter if I win or loose it is annoying to have the entirity of the enemy team sitting on our cap point near the beginning of the game. Sometimes I run a light and go back to defend just to see a DDC with ECM coving the majority of the enemy team on our base. By the time the situation is clear and I can convince the rest of the team to RTB for a coordinated assault it is all over. Right now there are few tangible rewards for a cap win without a fight, though this may change with CW, so why do it? Just for the minimally rewarded win? I have been on a team or two that used this tactic and for me at least it was a very hollow win.

Also, something seems to be wrong with ELO; since the last patch before this one I have been dropped exclusively in teams that get rolled horribly, usually 12 to 4 or less. I used to get an average of 2 kills per match, now I am happy to get 200-300 damage before getting mutilated. Nothing has changed on my mech builds and I at least believe that I did not start to majorly suck over-night. If other people are experiencing the same this may be the reason why more groups are starting to go for cap rather than fighting. Just a hunch really, but that does not exclude the possibility that some people are just capping for the easy win.

I am no knuckle dragger, but with the current modes win or loose has no real value, it is the fight that counts.

[Joseph Mallan]

Recon777, on 29 September 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

As a contrast to this thread, I'd like to say that the absolute worst way a game can end is like this:



WTF?!!

Seriously, this kind of cap abusing is way worse a problem than those who complain about capping at all. Yes capping has a place in Assault games, but it should NOT be rushed. That just wastes the time of a dozen people because nobody benefits from it. The only thing it accomplishes is to end the match early.

Sorry Recon. No sympathy here. Your team failed to properly respond to the "Someone is taking your stuff" warning an plain up an let the enemy win by cap. on't blame the winner for playing your teams weakness. Cap happens less than 15% of the time, so let the sneaky players have there moment an hit Launch.

[MortVent]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 October 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Sorry Recon. No sympathy here. Your team failed to properly respond to the "Someone is taking your stuff" warning an plain up an let the enemy win by cap. on't blame the winner for playing your teams weakness. Cap happens less than 15% of the time, so let the sneaky players have there moment an hit Launch.

Indeed, much like the ones that complained in chat when the lance I was in capped in terra.

The nice part - The enemy commando pilot that was scouting and ran into a nasty surprise butting in and saying "umm I told ya there was a lance headed to base, didn't you see me light them up and tell you!"

He and I both pointed out that:
1 - They knew we were going for the cap while they were at thunderdome with the rest of our team dancing
2 - They were warned and decided not to do jack

Net result 4 to 8 match with us winning. Tunnel vision on shooting things and not looking at a tactical game with an eye for tactics means you lose when you don't want to.

It's about objectives, it's base assault not team deathmatch. There is a set of two objectives cap or destroy the defenders (which means the match ends because there is none to stop the cap)

[Majorfatboy]

@Spawnsalot:

You are the exception, not the rule.
Back in closed beta / early open beta, everyone and their dog was complaining about how awful both the Centurion, and the AC10 were. Except Me. I was having a blast (literally) with both of them. I would whittle down stray Stalkers with the AC10, support the assaults, hold the line, Etc.
But that was just Me. Most folks were banging their heads against the walls trying to make both of these work.

Same thing here. For every one light player who is successfully doing more then capping, there are countless others who can't even look at the enemy without getting blown to quarks.
Here, this is a match I just came out of:



Both sides, almost completely heavies and assaults. Both sides tightly grouped. Like usual I tried to scout. Even in the dead of night, and several hundred meters, the moment I left the cover of a building, I got er larges to the face. Later, when I was in the middle of the fight, I got a lucky shot into a badly damaged Kintaro, then got My **** pushed in by an AC Jager and his Phract buddy. Would you of "put on your big boy pants" and had fun there? No. You'd of gotten your cheeks blown off like I did. The enemy stayed tightly packed, close to their base, and had the armor and guns advantage over Me.

What few kills most lights get these days are vulture kills; Showing up at the right moment and getting the kill shot on an opponent who was already badly damaged by friendly heavies and assaults. Lights can not pierce the blob, and instadie if you so much as look at them.

[Spawnsalot]

Yep. Been there too, you can't win them all, I just pick up the remnants of my arse and go again in a fresh match.

My previous post wasn't me trying to say "I'm the most awesome light pilot because I do this!", sorry if it sounded like that and I'm probably still not wording this right but I'm just trying to encourage more pilots to take the plunge - I don't want light pilots, new and old, to feel like the only thing they can do is actively avoid combat and go cap.

[Mycrus]

Said it before and saying it again... After grinding over a battalion worth of mechs.. Its all about harvesting tears... Cap rushes are useful for this...

[Training Instructor]

It doesn't happen super often, but there are also dedicated troll teams running 2-4 fast movers with cap accelerators and ecm.

Thankfully most of them only do it for a couple of matches maximum, just for the lolz.

[Majorfatboy]

Spawnsalot, on 02 October 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

I'm just trying to encourage more pilots to take the plunge - I don't want light pilots, new and old, to feel like the only thing they can do is actively avoid combat and go cap.

Amen. I want that too. That's why I'm such a grumpy **** about this. It's getting really hard to not cap lately, and if We want to keep players, new and old, in their light chassis, they've got to have something to look forward too.

Look at it this way:
Let's say a new player comes along. He likes the light mechs, and could potentially be a bad *** light player. Then He starts dropping into matches, And finds out how futile actually scouting is, how dangerous it is for you to fire that TAG laser, painting a line right back to your position. He then finds out that fighting in a scout is a "only when the situation permits it" scenario. He discovers that even on a successful scout round, He makes jack squat cbill-wise, as damage and assists are the only money maker here. He then finds himself either avoiding participating in the match entirely, or getting horribly killed.
At this point, He has two choices:

1: He abandons light chassis, giving us one less light player, and adding to the heavies and assaults only meta.

2: He caps. Just for the sake of still driving his light mech, and actually feeling like he did something in match, He goes capping.

Out of the two, I'd say choice two is best. At least We'll still see light mechs in use. Even if they're doing ludicrous speed straight for your base.

[SpoonFighter]

There are two types of people who play Assault, those who want to shoot other people, and those who want to win. Somehow, these two viewpoints don't always agree with each other, and we get discussions like this, calling cappers cowards, calling fighters neanderthals, its pretty exhausting.

I think it would be solved if there was any reason to defend the base, or if the game mode was changed to having one team defend and one team do the assaulting, but the way it is now, there's no real reason to defend the base other than "I will lose." Also, to appease both crowds, there should be another game-mode created that actually revolves around 'mech combat, with smaller maps and less units, perhaps more aligned with the Solaris matches in MW4, with team and free-for-all modes. In this way, there's more room for the reconnaissance work that other 'mechs can provide, since now that a defending team has to stay at their base, it would be important to know where the enemy is going to assault from, and vice-versa how the defending team is positioned to defend, and those who simply want to slug it out have their own place as well.

Until something like that is done, we're stuck with a game-mode that is an ugly combination of the two. I'm not going to call it a bad game-mode, I rather like the idea of a simultaneous attack and defense mode where the alternative is to annihilate the whole enemy team, but there's too much disagreement between people and varying amounts of situational awareness for it to be the game-mode I'd wager it was originally designed to be.

[Jon Gotham]

Good post Spoon.
I'm sorry to exhaust you, but I am utterly unapologetic. My comments were squarely aimed at the mentality of the "fight like men" group, making some sort of honour or prowess related silliness out of brawling. Killing them all is not more worthy than capping-it's simply a win condition in an online game. It also usually ends in ganking of one or two near helpless stragglers-where's the prowess or skill in that?
I like the mode as it is now, there are multiple ways to win or lose. You have more than just one option. I'm perfectly happy to do any of them with no preference to which happens. I simply want a good game when I click launch. If that happens via cap, or kills or combination of the two -then GREAT.
The only time assault fails as a mode is when most of your team just want to shoot and kill and ignore any of the other options.

This games NEEDS a deathmatch mode for the people who enjoy that.That way, they would not have to play with us cowards and we would be able to not have to put up with the middle map blobbing of fraghunters. Everyone would be happy then I think.
Though, I think they would have to break deathmatch down into weight catagories, else why would you bring a light mech or a medium to face 12 assaults?

[SpoonFighter]

kamiko kross, on 06 October 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

This games NEEDS a deathmatch mode for the people who enjoy that.That way, they would not have to play with us cowards and we would be able to not have to put up with the middle map blobbing of fraghunters. Everyone would be happy then I think.
Though, I think they would have to break deathmatch down into weight catagories, else why would you bring a light mech or a medium to face 12 assaults?

To expand upon that thought, a weight class limited deathmatch mode would be fun as hell, I don't know where Solaris stands timeline-wise, but having those kind of matches to play in would be a blast.

Edited by SpoonFighter, 06 October 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[Fuerchtegott]

Late at night, my hitdetection is so bad, that often the alternativ and suprisingly well working capdetection is my way to go for a good game.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Edited the whole post because the majority of the posters here are the type of people that **** me off to the point where I call it like I see it and wind up having a conversation with the mods.

If you don't like something about the game, then take it up with the devs. Calling people names is where you prove yourself to the be the things you accuse others of being.

I sincerely hope I don't see many of you folks on the battlefield. But rest assured, I will take some notes, and for many of you, see if my friends are up for a base rush.

Edited by Nick Makiaveli, 06 October 2013 - 07:29 AM.

[R Razor]

We can take notes too Nick, we'll compare them when we're done. I bet my Lasers can outrun your light when I see you sprinting off for a cap.