210 replies to this topic

[MortVent]

The alternative to a pug is to make friends and form a premade group..

[Recon777]

Really? I thought maybe there was some mode or something which didn't match you up to randoms at all. Forming a group (of 4) would make one third of your team not suck, but forming a group of 12 using the (retardedly designed) available social tools would be extremely difficult.

[Ensaine]

Recon... here is the issue:

Farix, on 29 September 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

So for you, it is all about the C-bills. But that's not true for all players. Some don't give a damn about C-bills and simply want to win.

It is unfortunate that the rewards for Assault are so screwed up. It sucks that actions that helps your team win aren't rewarded and only the actions related to combat given rewards.

EDIT: And because it's broke, we'll exploit it.

And:

Farix, on 29 September 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

Winning more often actually improves their Elo Rankings.
EDIT: And because it's broke, we'll exploit it.

Yes, it's PGI's {Scrap} design. BUT ......
All these [Redacted] care about is their ELO, not a damn thing about YOU, or the other 22 people in the match. They exploit a weaksauce game design element to {Scrap} on the intent of the game, which is to pilot and fight stompy mechs.

Every demo/trailer I've seen of ANY Mechwarrior title had mechs shooting mechs, not singing Kumbaya on their way to stand in a box.

Every version of MW I've ever played (all of them) never had 100 Ton Mechs running and skipping along, to stand in a box.

No REAL Mechwarrior Enthusiast would ever end a match, going gaily to a box to stand in. These are the FPS crowd, not true MW players.

They cap, because a sign says Jump, and they do. Their only defense is that it does indeed say "Cap or Kill" for match ending parameters. So, the weak people cap, because of the above quoted philosophies ......

So, don't wonder who the n00bs actually are anymore. They ran to your base within the first minute of the match. They are there already.

PGI did this, it's true. But the weaksauce it takes to run like a girl to the little box is beyond any design.

Edited by John Wolf, 07 October 2013 - 11:11 AM.
Insults

[Caswallon]

Ensaine, on 29 September 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

Every demo/trailer I've seen of ANY Mechwarrior title had mechs shooting mechs, not singing Kumbaya on their way to stand in a box.

This! Ensaine you are now my hero!

[Farix]

Cute that you alter my comments to say something I didn't say.

Ensaine, on 29 September 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

Yes, it's PGI's {Scrap} design. BUT ......
All these captards care about is their ELO, not a damn thing about YOU, or the other 22 people in the match. They exploit a weaksauce game design element to {Scrap} on the intent of the game, which is to pilot and fight stompy mechs.

All those who complain about caps don't not care a damn thing about YOU or the other people in the match either. They only care about their own rewards (c-bills). I don't see how one is more valid than the other. However, Assault, being based on Capture the Flag, requires the team to defend. If a team refuses to defend its base, it will get captured sooner or later.

Ensaine, on 29 September 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

Every demo/trailer I've seen of ANY Mechwarrior title had mechs shooting mechs, not singing Kumbaya on their way to stand in a box.

All the trailers for World of Tanks and many other MMOs are hardly representative of the game play either. Of course, that should be a given as trailers focus on the action of the game instead of the grind.

Ensaine, on 29 September 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

Every version of MW I've ever played (all of them) never had 100 Ton Mechs running and skipping along, to stand in a box.

Every version of MW that I've ever played had a campaign mode. There is none here. So does that mean anything? In the end, no.

Ensaine, on 29 September 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

No REAL Mechwarrior Enthusiast would ever end a match, going gaily to a box to stand in. These are the FPS crowd, not true MW players.

You don't speak for "Real MechWarrior Enthusiast", much else get to define it. I can just as easily say that a "Real MechWarrior Enthusiast" will achieve the objectives by any means available to him or her. And it would be just as valid as that was how previous MW games were played.

Ensaine, on 29 September 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

They cap, because a sign says Jump, and they do. Their only defense is that it does indeed say "Cap or Kill" for match ending parameters. So, the weak people cap, because of the above quoted philosophies ......

They cap because it is a winning condition, the mode is based on Capture the Flag, and most importantly of all the other team isn't defending their base. It's pointless to whine about the other team getting the better of you when you only have yourselves to blame for the lack of defense.

Ensaine, on 29 September 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

So, don't wonder who the n00bs actually are anymore. They ran to your base within the first minute of the match. They are there already.

PGI did this, it's true. But the weaksauce it takes to run like a girl to the little box is beyond any design.

So you have to resort to name calling because you cannot win the argument without it.

[Jon Gotham]

R Razor, on 29 September 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

If your focus is on capturing a point then you should play conquest and stop screwing the game up for the folks that want to fight.

Assault mode should have capping disabled for the first 7.5 minutes just so phallic craniums don't rush and are forced to fight.

Assault mode means assault. That means assaulting the enemy team AND assaulting their base.

Trouble is, doing something like that would turn the matches into a neolithic,primitive knuckledragging hp trading slugfest. With whomever brings the biggest guns winning.
And that would be utterly TERRIBLE.
Already there is FAR TOO MUCH sitting in the middle in a big blob, peeking over hills trying to lolsnipe each other for 10 mins. If you try to disable any more variety of approach......you might as well have a circular arena where both teams can take it in turns to salvo each other to death.
At least in pugs, capping forces the neanderthals to do something else other than cower behind cover walking backwards/forwards trying to potshot each other hunting for frags.
The trouble is the reward system rewards the stand in middle and fight like real men mentality too much.

[Gladewolf]

Well OP, as you pointed out, you, and everyone on your team........abandoned your base. Despite your ironic gamer tag, 0 Recon happened. Looking at your position on the map when the cap started...didn't you find it a little surprising that you had not seen even a single target? Why did you continue to zombie forward? When we forget the win conditions for a match, we lose.

[Gladewolf]

Recon777, on 29 September 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

Have *I* heard of base defense? I'll let you decide.

As you noted in your video...base defense is not just the job of light mechs(you kept wondering where your heavies were).....but you seem to forget this when it is convenient(did you ever turn your mech around in your cap video?)...and quite frankly, you had to be called more than once by your friend to return to base, even when you were playing a light....verdict? NO, you have very little clue about base defense.

[Rushin Roulette]

Sorry, but looking at those videos im not too surprized why you are continually loosing to capraces.

1st video. Your whole team is completely and utterly overextended. If you dont see any blips or information from your scouts by the time that you reach the ridge (at aproximately 90° around the Caldera) you and your team should be thinking to yourselves that this missing information is suspicious. Turn back at that point at the latest and RTB ASAP!

At the time where the cap meter started up... half of your team (including yourself) stood rooted to one point looking like confused chickens and then running in literal circles deciding if you should go back or cap their base... look at that video and think of what you could do better in the future to improve your own gameplay instead of complaining about others being more successful at standing in a red square.

2nd video... what should I say... the most polite way to say it is directly... that is a great show of what not to do as a light mech pilot.

a: Never run infront of your teammates if possible
b: NEVER EVER run infront of your teammates if they are obviously shooting an enemy (You get hit by quite a bit of friendly fire in your own video because of this)
c. NEVER stand still... you get killed by a dragon because you are standing still and he can easily focus on your already critically damaged leg.. destroying the rest of your mech is childs play after that.

P. S. As for the players complaining that capping is for noobs and that you would rather fight... guess what. Your opponents are telling you EXACTLY where they are standing and inviting you to come fight them (including a friggin big blinking sign and voice informing you of this fact!). You just have to get your lumbering rear center torso back to where you started... so there is not even a chance of getting lost on the way is there?

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 30 September 2013 - 05:52 AM.

[FailasaurusRex]

kamiko kross, on 30 September 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

Assault mode means assault. That means assaulting the enemy team AND assaulting their base.

Trouble is, doing something like that would turn the matches into a neolithic,primitive knuckledragging hp trading slugfest. With whomever brings the biggest guns winning.
And that would be utterly TERRIBLE.
Already there is FAR TOO MUCH sitting in the middle in a big blob, peeking over hills trying to lolsnipe each other for 10 mins. If you try to disable any more variety of approach......you might as well have a circular arena where both teams can take it in turns to salvo each other to death.
At least in pugs, capping forces the neanderthals to do something else other than cower behind cover walking backwards/forwards trying to potshot each other hunting for frags.
The trouble is the reward system rewards the stand in middle and fight like real men mentality too much.

This post is laden with fast food generation style thinking, but your final sentence rings true on its own merits.

Also to state how assaults and heavy mechs play as "neolithic,primitive knuckledragging hp trading slugfest." Come on you cant possibly be that dense.
One class needs the other to make a good match happen. When one style of play is to setup lines if attrition only to have it all shot to hell by a single class of mech who only desires a win. Well thats not fun for both teams and the multiple classes of mechs that make up a match.

I run a "light mech" account and have been enjoying the trial jenner champion mech alot.
If i see lines of attrition being formed, after doing my scout duties, i hit the enemy cap. Without miss, a sizable portion the enemy line turns to clear their base. Relay that info, tell friendlies to move in on a weak line and without fail no one does anything. Leave the cap and begin doing some damage. Only to have whatever lights came with me still sitting on cap.
Hitting the enemy cap to break their line is a tactic, but lazy ,scared, cheap lights who then just sit there for the whole freaking cap is beyond boring to me a majority light mech player(as of late) and assault player.

The above is at the heart of why so many matches go down the drain. No working together.
God bless ELO.

Edited by FailasaurusRex, 30 September 2013 - 06:17 AM.

[R Razor]

Awesome [REDACTED].

As I (and many others) have said.......you folks that gain enjoyment out of running along the sides and stopping in a box to sit while a bar runs down feel free to do so............in CONQUEST.........but then you won't do that because in CONQUEST you know you'll be facing opponents that didn't come in planning on an actual FIGHT and will have already committed themselves to preventing you from playing mechparkinglot online. And when that happens you don't get to win and run around crowing about your 1337 skillz and high elo. It's not as if most of us aren't aware that's what it's all about for you.........and I'd go even further and speculate that a lot of you cap defenders run around in the broken Spider while you're doing it just to get that extra feeling of accomplishment right?

Edited by Helmer, 01 October 2013 - 12:05 PM.
Ad hominem

[Gladewolf]

R Razor, on 30 September 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Awesome, [REDACTED].

As I (and many others) have said.......you folks that gain enjoyment out of running along the sides and stopping in a box to sit while a bar runs down feel free to do so............in CONQUEST.........but then you won't do that because in CONQUEST you know you'll be facing opponents that didn't come in planning on an actual FIGHT and will have already committed themselves to preventing you from playing mechparkinglot online. And when that happens you don't get to win and run around crowing about your 1337 skillz and high elo. It's not as if most of us aren't aware that's what it's all about for you.........and I'd go even further and speculate that a lot of you cap defenders run around in the broken Spider while you're doing it just to get that extra feeling of accomplishment right?

Wow....that's a LOT of hate....hey, why don't you go back to your cap....AND KILL THOSE NO TALENT ******..........It's totally legal, I swear.

Edited by Helmer, 01 October 2013 - 12:06 PM.
Quote clean up.

[Razuko]

Only ******* fastcap... Tactics: distraction or capping to save the game when half your team is dead and your clearly outmatched is acceptable. Darting straight for the cap in a wolf pack and burning the timer to 0 as fast as possible is cowardice and a waste of everyone else's time, not just the enemy team. If you're not not worried about your cbill intake then you either play far too much or don't play enough different mechs.

[R Razor]

No hate involved, just pointing out that if all you want to do is park in a square there is a game mode that caters specifically to you...........why do you feel the need to ruin the game for those of us that want more out of Mechwarrior Online than a parking simulator?

Mayhap if you had more skill you could fight and live, shoot you might even earn more money and xp that way too...........

The issue as I see it has never been with the "tap the base to break the enemy line" but rather the folks that take their broken ecm spiders and cap rush without even trying to fight.

So..........which are you? I know what my money's on.

[Gladewolf]

R Razor, on 30 September 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

No hate involved, just pointing out that if all you want to do is park in a square there is a game mode that caters specifically to you...........why do you feel the need to ruin the game for those of us that want more out of Mechwarrior Online than a parking simulator?

There should be more hate involved. Why would people on the other team want to ruin your experience? Because they are trying to beat you, and the FACT that many people here would rather come to the forums and whine rather than ripping their little mech limbs off and beating them with them, mystifies me. There are TWO mech modes that cater to players that want to win....and only this forum for those that want to whine about valid tactics. IF you don't like cappers, Beat them to death, again.....it's totally legal.

[R Razor]

Gladewolf, on 30 September 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

There should be more hate involved. Why would people on the other team want to ruin your experience? Because they are trying to beat you, and the FACT that many people here would rather come to the forums and whine rather than ripping their little mech limbs off and beating them with them, mystifies me. There are TWO mech modes that cater to players that want to win....and only this forum for those that want to whine about valid tactics. IF you don't like cappers, Beat them to death, again.....it's totally legal.

If you are so unintelligent as to believe that losing a game ruins the experience then nothing more need be said as that merely validates my earlier post;

<snip>And when that happens you don't get to win and run around crowing about your 1337 skillz and high elo. It's not as if most of us aren't aware that's what it's all about for you<snip>

Yes, winning is nice and it sucks to have losing steaks.......I'll ***** and moan with the best of them when I have one.......but the excitement of the fight is what brings me back even while on that losing streak. When people who's only goal in life is to rush to the cap take away that chance for a fight the game becomes less than appealing.

You can blather on all you want about staying and defending but that is only a valid tactic if either ALL of your team does it, or if the enemy only attacks with a part of his team............and here's a news flash for ya bub, most PUGS don't give a rodents posterior about your requests to stay and defend (or flank here, or rush there or any other suggestion you might have) as all they want to do is either find the enemy and fight or, much like yourself, rush the enemy base and cap.

Edited by R Razor, 30 September 2013 - 05:45 PM.

[Ensaine]

Farix, on 30 September 2013 - 03:31 AM, said:

Cute that you alter my comments to say something I didn't say.


All those who complain about caps don't not care a damn thing about YOU or the other people in the match either. They only care about their own rewards (c-bills). I don't see how one is more valid than the other. However, Assault, being based on Capture the Flag, requires the team to defend. If a team refuses to defend its base, it will get captured sooner or later.


All the trailers for World of Tanks and many other MMOs are hardly representative of the game play either. Of course, that should be a given as trailers focus on the action of the game instead of the grind.


Every version of MW that I've ever played had a campaign mode. There is none here. So does that mean anything? In the end, no.


You don't speak for "Real MechWarrior Enthusiast", much else get to define it. I can just as easily say that a "Real MechWarrior Enthusiast" will achieve the objectives by any means available to him or her. And it would be just as valid as that was how previous MW games were played.


They cap because it is a winning condition, the mode is based on Capture the Flag, and most importantly of all the other team isn't defending their base. It's pointless to whine about the other team getting the better of you when you only have yourselves to blame for the lack of defense.


So you have to resort to name calling because you cannot win the argument without it.

Thank you for validating ALL of my comments..... no rebuttal needed... just your open mouth........

Thanks again.

[Jon Gotham]

FailasaurusRex, on 30 September 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

This post is laden with fast food generation style thinking, but your final sentence rings true on its own merits.

Also to state how assaults and heavy mechs play as "neolithic,primitive knuckledragging hp trading slugfest." Come on you cant possibly be that dense. (that is despicably insulting btw just look at what most randoms in those classes do in a pug)
One class needs the other to make a good match happen. When one style of play is to setup lines if attrition only to have it all shot to hell by a single class of mech who only desires a win. Well thats not fun for both teams and the multiple classes of mechs that make up a match.

I run a "light mech" account and have been enjoying the trial jenner champion mech alot.
If i see lines of attrition being formed, after doing my scout duties, i hit the enemy cap. Without miss, a sizable portion the enemy line turns to clear their base. Relay that info, tell friendlies to move in on a weak line and without fail no one does anything. Leave the cap and begin doing some damage. Only to have whatever lights came with me still sitting on cap.
Hitting the enemy cap to break their line is a tactic, but lazy ,scared, cheap lights who then just sit there for the whole freaking cap is beyond boring to me a majority light mech player(as of late) and assault player.

The above is at the heart of why so many matches go down the drain. No working together.
God bless ELO.

Thank you very much for the low insult.
You and I think alike tactically. The only thing is, your point about single class of mech....all I see in nearly every match is hillhumping, sheep herd assaults/heavies all sitting in one spot trading hp......none of them think to go aroud with those 2 medims to their right or to fade away luring them forward into a killzone......instead they crawl over a crest try to get a snapshot off etc.
How many times have you seen them all herd together and then get flanked? It's usually the lights that do the brave thing or a fast medium...

R Razor, on 30 September 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Awesome, a two post pinhead calling people neanderthals.

As I (and many others) have said.......you folks that gain enjoyment out of running along the sides and stopping in a box to sit while a bar runs down feel free to do so............in CONQUEST.........but then you won't do that because in CONQUEST you know you'll be facing opponents that didn't come in planning on an actual FIGHT and will have already committed themselves to preventing you from playing mechparkinglot online. And when that happens you don't get to win and run around crowing about your 1337 skillz and high elo. It's not as if most of us aren't aware that's what it's all about for you.........and I'd go even further and speculate that a lot of you cap defenders run around in the broken Spider while you're doing it just to get that extra feeling of accomplishment right?

Again thanks for the low insult. Two post pinhead aye?
I don't want my games chance of variety ruined by the stand and fight like real men attitude. I came to mechwarrior expecting tactics. movement etc. What I saw in my first 25 matches was generally 2 blobs across the map from each other trying to "fight like men." One blob will fail to shoot as well, have less decent builds etc and get roflstomped.
Your inflammatory comments equally apply to the middlemap campers. they are playing mechparkinglotonline too. Instead of a square, they have a map square with some nice rocks to cower behind ......
I'm glad I joined a decent clan. At least when I play with them I get my tactics and my flanking and movement-but generally we are the only people in the match doing it:(
I'll only cap when it is required to win. I feel no sense of bravado in going down fighting. When I click launch I want to win. If that means killing all mechs I will. If that means capping, by lord I WILL. Both of those apply equally to conquest and assault by the way.

My comments were aimed at the group of people who just want to BRAWL and FIGHT and KILL with complete disregard for the larger picture/win conditions. Generally it's the blobbers that do that. they don't want tactics, they don't want flanking they want to SHOOT AND KILL and feel good. they also will LOSE THE MATCH for the others on the team refusing to cap because they want to fight (when a cap is the only option) like real men. SILLY.
That mentality is rife in WOT in pugs and it spoils that game. Please lets not allow this mentality to encroach and ruin this game eh? There is nothing manly or brave or whatever about fighting, when you press launch you are going into a MATCH with WIN CONDITIONS-notice the plural.
If you don't like that, why don't we all band together and ask for a team deathmatch mode? Then you can get what you want and I will get what I want:) Both of us will be happy:)

[Burke IV]

Im just gonna chime in again here and say DEFEND.

ctf style games are played with attack and defense. Imagine the other team cap rushes you. 3 jenners and a spider rush to your base and start to cap.... and omg is that an orion and a couple of mediums just powered up? wtf are the lights dead? omg omg.

Im sorry to start playing chess again... but its like the other guy moves his rook the length of the board and instead of playing the game you want to upset the table.

If its really that bad then start a petition to alter the gameplay, otherwise... DEFEND!

[Majorfatboy]

I think a lot of it comes from feeling like capping is about the only thing you can do in a light anymore.
When I'm playing with folks on TS in a four-man, they usually want to run fast mechs and storm the other team's cap.

And I'm freaking sick of it.

Problem is, if you're running a light, there's a whole buttload of risks and disadvantages, but no reward. Actually scouting in a light mech is suicide, and wolfpacking only works with sloppy players who get separated from their group, so what's left?

And conquest mode? Oh god no! You think it's boring to stand in a box once for three minutes? Try doing that for the entire match. Yep, run for 15 seconds, stand for 3 minutes, run for 20 seconds, stand for three minutes, run for 20 seconds back to the first cap you hit, because while you were standing around on the second cap, someone de-capped the first one, then lose anyways because as it turns out you were the only light in the team, and your teammates all played the round assault style and just went straight to epsi for the big fight.

So in short: Does fast capping in assault suck? Yes. But it's pretty much the only thing light players have left. And do to elo's hilarious style of "fair matchmaking", sometimes capping is the only chance a lot of us ever have in winning a round in this game of "CT-cored assault mech blob warrior".