96 replies to this topic

[Skunk Wolf]

Big thread for satire.

[Dawnstealer]

Kjudoon, on 17 October 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

Quit playing Assault. Solves a lot of problems there. In conquest, the tards go off and die at Theta and you might have a better chance capping to victory with a light mech. But getting PuGs to avoid the PuG Zapper at Mount Derp on Terra Derpa is like herding cats with catnip and a squirt bottle. So get used to it.

I appreciate your use of the word "derp," sir, and I salute you.

[Kjudoon]

Dawnstealer, on 29 October 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

I appreciate your use of the word "derp," sir, and I salute you.

[Skunk Wolf]

[RadioKies]

Why Does Nobody Listen In Pugs? I Can't Win Any Game Because Of Other People!

>I Can't Win.. Because Of Other People!

>Because Of Other People!

mfw:

[Stealth Fox]

I actually did it! I Won with Pugs, I commanded them I lead them to victory! In CW no less against a relatively well organized IS team. HOLY CRAP! We didn't just out last in defense of Sulfer Valley or what ever its called, but we also rolled out and pushed them back to the drop sones! . Holy crap.. I ..i didn't think It was possible..

[Jon Gotham]

Simple:
In pugs each player only thinks of themselves, their score, their cbills, their survival-ALL above yours.

"Why should I?"
"I'll do what I want"
"Don't tell me how to play"
"I'm right, you are wrong"

[Tastian]

I see pugs like a herd of wild animals. Sure, they might listen, but in the end, you'll realize they are uncontrollable. So I find 3 things help:

1) Take command and mark a target
2) Try to lead the charge, or direction, by example
3) Suggest a strategy in chat

But in the end, pugs will do what they want to do and once a mass starts moving its hard to stop it. Its at this point that you have a decision to make.

Either

a) do what you want to do, get killed for going off on your own, and then gripe about how pugs don't listen

or

follow and support the pugs no matter how stupid their move. And sometimes you'll be amazed at what happens.


But, just remember, the other pug group is probably experiencing the EXACT SAME THING. I personally just try to roll with it. But I'll look at the mechs and try to support those that look like they know what they are doing.

[Sandtiger]

Pugs aren't so bad. Before my team found Cameron's Highlanders, we played effectively in PUG battles. More wins than losses, so I really cant throw a stone. Communication is the key to victory. However, I have to tell you that after playing with CH I don't think I could ever go back to Pick Up Groups. The ability to coordinate a team over team speak, and work with fellow players is invaluable. Not to mention, they all know how to shoot straight ~Grins.

I don't think that Pugs are the problem. I think low ELO Pugs are the problem you might be having. Try and become a better pilot. (more kills, more damage dealt, etc...) It should raise your ELO high enough that you will find PUGS with a better temperament for mechanized warfare.

Or better yet. Join a team that is large enough for a 12 man. =]

Good Luck, and Cheers!

[salkeee]

I m playing pug games mostly and I never take comand but ocasionaly I say what should be done and I do not expect every to listen to me.
Even than my w/l is 50ish 50ish,so if OP realy cant win any game I d blame him.

[Lily from animove]

they don't read,
they don't wanna read
they can't read (non english people)

they do not wanna do what the others wanna do.
they are helplessly lost newbies not knowing what people talk about.

chances in PUGland to find a well fitting similar dynamic amongts enouhg players to make a working tactic is rare by these things.

Edited by Lily from animove, 19 December 2014 - 07:09 AM.

[maxmarechal]

Sometimes i pug just to get rid of the tension 12 man team puts on your shoulders
In comp you do what the leader wants.point.
So as a Pug i tend to do whatever i feel like doing
including stupid death facing three opponents just to see how long my build allows me to tank or that brand new dakka i bought and haven't mastered yet...you know testing with real opponents not shutdown mechs waiting to die in Tgrounds?

[Basilisk222]

I'm actually going to take this seriously,

There's two elements to this

A: Self Importance:
Self importance places emphasis on the self over the team, common arguments for this are wanting to do what they want to do, having fun, thinking their strategy is better, or dislike for command. In addition THEY know what they're capable of, and how their mech runs, or more importantly they don't, and are trying to feel things out. You can't ask a soldier to do something they don't think they can do.

This all falls under selfish reasons for the player, but there is other issues further. Not only pugs have this issue. Some people command self importantly, feeling their tactics must be abided by, either because they are an established player, and they feel they've earned command, or because they innately feel they should command. I've met many people in his game that provide HORRIBLE advice and tactics, likewise, I've met many that have provided good advice. Also, many "leaders" do so berating their teammates ,which promotes animosity and a failure to rally their teammates.

These are contributing factors, player who won't listen because they don't want to can happen for a huge number of reasons. A poor Leader, a leader asking something of them they cannot do either due to build or experience, disagreements, berating, poorly realized tactics, or plain inability. They often do not REFUSE to do things, based on having fun, often the "Fun" argument comes into play when someone is being a poor leader or enforcing a playstyle the user in question finds questionable. Griefers are a thing too.

You have to remember, many players want to experiment and test builds in a combat environment, that's the only way they can verify they work. And let's face it, generally people are playing for money and exp, the grind is long, and the way to the top is paved with mastery and c-bills. I'm much more apt to try to live in the main queue myself, and I've been around long enough to know a dumb plan when its communicated. It's not like people listen, you're just some random guy on the internet. There is no way for people to understand your decency as a commander, maybe with the new title system.

A good example is asking a locust to scout or take an area alone. It can't, it has too little armor and it's loadout allows vulturing or support, or harassment. It can't scout well because it can't take the pot shots. Asking someone in a locust to be a Jenner or Raven is asking them to sacrifice themselves. That is not something many will desire to do.

B. Inexperience

The second part is ill knowledge of MWO the mapos, tactics, efficient building, and correct mechs to pilot.
Someone who has little battlefield experience will have trouble being knocked around, they'll have trouble with heat management, and will know after a few matches how quickly you can die. But they won't know how to spread damage or what way their mech works with them, which weapons they are effective with, and which class of mech they belong in.

Certain mechs "Click" with some people, and it can take a long time before that happens with the right loadout and chassis. Favorites come with time. So far, I've had this happen with the Locust, The Mist Lynx, and the Mad Dog. I've piloted about 10 chassis, and bought/tried over 30 different mechs before I got where I'm at. I'd say I'm average in CW, average damage is about 400-600, and I do well, and help out. I'm an asset, I hold my own, but it took such a long time before that occurred.

There's so much to the combat in this game, and a lot to the team dynamic. There often isn't time for debate about what mechs do for people, or why the person sitting behind the corner won't push with the others. You just know it's wrong and will get people killed, but, they don't know why its wrong, just like so often a commander doesn't know why they're right when some things work for them. They might be thinking "I'll support the flank and peg them while they shoot my teammates" and conversely a commander won't know why a rush isn't working when he's sent 6 lrm boats rushing up the field instead of keeping them back and supporting his push like he should while they move ahead in the assults tracks slower, taking out the assaulting units trying to take out the attacking frontline.

This game is deep, there is a lot to learn. Sometimes people don't know what to do, in that instance you must prove yourself as command, or change tactics as best able. You have to be fluid, everyone's different.

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 19 December 2014 - 07:36 AM.

[Ahri-the-Fox]

holy threadsurrection!

[MoonUnitBeta]

kamiko kross, on 19 December 2014 - 06:25 AM, said:

Simple:
In pugs each player only thinks of themselves, their score, their cbills, their survival-ALL above yours.

"Why should I?"
"I'll do what I want"
"Don't tell me how to play"
"I'm right, you are wrong"

As a pug player, this is what goes through my mind when people start commanding people around:

“What does this guy know?”
“Is he part of a premade?”
“Why does he think his plan will work?”
“Did he see the flank coming around?”
*after warning about the flank*
“Why is he not heeding my warnings?”
“What’s his actual plan?”
“How many others are reading his messages?”
“Who else is following his commands?”

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 19 December 2014 - 08:53 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

MoonUnitBeta, on 19 December 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

As a pug player, this is what goes through my mind when people start commanding people around:

“What does this guy know?”
“Is he part of a premade?”
“Why does he think his plan will work?”
“Did he see the flank coming around?”
*after warning about the flank*
“Why is he not heeding my warnings?”
“What’s his actual plan?”
“How many others are reading his messages?”
“Who else is following his commands?”

It should go like:
"Does this sound sensible?"
if yes DO IT.
If no, say why and suggest something.

Every time I've tried to be nice in pug games and offer advice one of two things has happened I either get utter wall of silence or I get told to "s**u."
The selfishness of it is really starting to get to me to be honest.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

i never listen to orders in pug matches. Neither in Team matches. You can kindly ask to go to x location perhaps. Or let us know what the enemies are doing. But seeing sum ppl acting like kim jong un makes me ignore them and their orders

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 19 December 2014 - 11:31 AM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

kamiko kross, on 19 December 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

It should go like:
"Does this sound sensible?"
if yes DO IT.
If no, say why and suggest something.

Every time I've tried to be nice in pug games and offer advice one of two things has happened I either get utter wall of silence or I get told to "s**u."
The selfishness of it is really starting to get to me to be honest.

Sure, sensible is a good question too, but most commands are only sensible if everyone is on the same page. One single man following another man’s orders is not team work, often it’s suicide for that poor, willing, and naive soul. So you really do have to ask yourself all those questions that you struck out.
A good commander lays out a simple and easy to follow plan with good directions.

You know, you do have to wonder though, some people just assume the highest ranking position, and starts demanding people to do things on a whim. And when people don’t follow through, they call them idiots, complain, or when they die they blame the entire team. Who is this person?! A commander like that is incompetent, and it’s not the teams fault for not following orders. People are in combat, they’re not focusing on chat, they’re focusing on killing what’s trying to kill them. You know, you give an order for everyone to move to B6. Uh, hey, what about ME who is DYING here in C2!? It is definitely not selfish if I continue fighting this mech to save my life, or fend off the encroaching force of doom.

Most commanders are just plain BAD, and their orders can actually RUIN a team. Especially so when the commander exaggerates a situation in order to get a reaction and then receives a reaction suitable to his request (which then would be an OVERREACTION), or uses the team as his own personal army. A bad commander can easily lead his team to a defeat by not understanding the situations on the battlefield, and pulling too many forces away from one area in favour of another can lead to one end getting over-run. Sometimes it’s best not to say anything, and the best thing to do is just target a mech, and let the players notice, and adjust accordingly.

So, you see: how can you tell who to listen to when you know nothing about them? My questions I ask myself are still very relevant. You do not need to cross them out. If commanders are not willing to ease those questions, I have no interest in being commanded.

Did You Know:
You can command a pug (not sure about in CW) with a scout, by simply relaying relevant information about enemy locations, incoming forces, and targeting? You can also help your team by pulling the enemies attention away and being a distraction. These things are often heavily underestimated, and a team who does not have this type of person suffers greatly. People often think that the only way you can command is by giving orders, instead you can command by giving information. And I’d like to think people follow information better than they do orders.

Anyone who wants to be a commander, I would recommend first knowing how to pilot a light scout (IMHO). Why a light? Because it forces you to be hyper aware of enemy locations, their movement, facing direction, where your team is, etc.

Anyways, most of this is what I’ve learned by playing as nearly solely as a pug for the two years of MWO.
It is different in CW. Some things from Pugland do don’t work in CW. CW is pretty straight forward though, the only thing that really needs to be said is which side you rush(attacking), or which side is getting rushed(defending).

How many times have you seen "GO! PUSH!! GO!!" get shouted into the chat and have watched it miserably fail, or there's a little small push, but everyone retreats back? Yea.... about 9/10 times.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 19 December 2014 - 02:53 PM.

[Abisha]

must be your playstyle.

in PuG you go with the flow, you take kills, you give some kills
you comment cheap comments people will read and even chances acordingly.

like assault heading to center, (give most people reason to backup one)
other then that never assume you can take command of a PuG we not Unit.

[F4T 4L]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 19 December 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

i never listen to orders in pug matches. Neither in Team matches. You can kindly ask to go to x location perhaps. Or let us know what the enemies are doing. But seeing sum ppl acting like kim jong un makes me ignore them and their orders

Nascar on regardless, right?

Edited by F4T 4L, 19 December 2014 - 03:14 PM.