323 replies to this topic

[Groundstain]

I doubt you will read this, but I need to say this anyway. I have only 3 useable fingers in my right hand. At first I was mad about the fact that you have not implemented throw speed for joysticks but I still backed you. Now you have removed the only thing that lets me play this game. Removing "Fire Selected Weapons Group" Is complete {Scrap}. Now I cannot even play, What was your thought process in making the game hard for those with disabilities. Well you will probably delete this post, soooo I guess it does not even matter.

Thank you for making this game semi fun up to this point.

[BigBadVlad]

Paul Inouye, on 06 November 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

1) No.

2)

3) We are adding the ability to bind MB1 to "fire selected weapon group" but it's requiring a bit of trickery on the control binding end of things. We have engineering working on it right now and as soon as that is fixed, the bind will be available to you all again. Sorry for the inconvenience but this was something we did after watching new players have a problem with the current implementation.

Jeez, such a half-arsed implementation. If whoever came up with this plan worked at my place of employment they would have been walked out of the building by the end of the week if it wasn't fixed...

When I thought PGI was making progress towards better updates/fixes, then PGI does another "OOPS I did it again..."
Kind of lamenting my Phoenix purchase now...

[Grave Dancer]

Paul Inouye, on 06 November 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

1) No.

2)

3) We are adding the ability to bind MB1 to "fire selected weapon group" but it's requiring a bit of trickery on the control binding end of things. We have engineering working on it right now and as soon as that is fixed, the bind will be available to you all again. Sorry for the inconvenience but this was something we did after watching new players have a problem with the current implementation.

Are you sure it wasnt something you did after noticing people were using cycling weapons groups to get around ghost heat ? Someone in my unit threw that out there today and its the closest thing yet ive heard to a logical explanation for the stealth control nerf.

[GrimReality]

I'm kinda surprised people actually use the [old] default mouse setup.

Personally, one of the first things I did as far as keybinds go when I started playing this game was to change my settings to what is now the new default, and of the half a dozen or so other players that I helped teach this game to, we all found it easier to use Left Click = Fire Group 1. It makes more sense, I guess, unless maybe "that's how it's always been in MechWarrior," but for those new to the franchise or returning after a long time this new default mirrors what is more common in today's games (where left click = primary fire and right click = secondary fire and so on).

That said, I'm also surprised that Fire Selected Group is no longer even an option and I do feel bad for those people who liked the old function and I hope that the option is returned for you sooner rather than later.

[Juantanamo]

I'll add to the many voices here already that this change is crippling. I've been talking down the badmouthers to this point within the groups I play with. I've been happy and have stood behind many of the balance tweaks.

But then you hit me hard where I live. Mechwarrior games have always been "press the button to fire", press a billion other things to do a billion other things. It's as complex as you want it to be but shooting is the core, so shoot with the left mouse or whatever you map it to. I don't have extra buttons on my mouse. 2 buttons is all I get, not 6. I use my left hand to do the other billion things so shooting shouldn't happen there.

You've stayed pretty true to the series up to this point. It's what I like about MWO. This is not a good move. Please fix.

JSP

[Grave Dancer]

GrimReality, on 06 November 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

I'm kinda surprised people actually use the [old] default mouse setup.

Personally, one of the first things I did as far as keybinds go when I started playing this game was to change my settings to what is now the new default, and of the half a dozen or so other players that I helped teach this game to, we all found it easier to use Left Click = Fire Group 1. It makes more sense, I guess, unless maybe "that's how it's always been in MechWarrior," but for those new to the franchise or returning after a long time this new default mirrors what is more common in today's games (where left click = primary fire and right click = secondary fire and so on).

That said, I'm also surprised that Fire Selected Group is no longer even an option and I do feel bad for those people who liked the old function and I hope that the option is returned for you sooner rather than later.

And how do you fire groups 2 through 6 ? For some people, having to use 5 different keyboard hotkeys every time they want to fire something other than group 1 is crippling, but if you only have (or want) a standard 2 button mouse, that is your only option. If I had a 3rd arm and hand, that would probably work just fine, but since I use my left hand for steering/throttle, and my right hand on the mouse (for torso), and have done it this way for 20 years, I guess I would fall into the "you cant teach an old dog new tricks" category. I did situationally use the 1 key on the keyboard (which I can sort of hit with my pinky without taking my left hand off the steerage controls) for group 1. But trying to use the other weapons groups now ? Not doable unless I want to stop moving every time I want to fire. In a competitive environment, muscle memory is tantamount. It is a large portion of the "experience" quotient. PGI just flushed 20 years of muscle memory for a lot of their supposed "core" demographic (long time fans of the MW franchise).

Imagine for a moment you are a competitive race driver... say in formula 1. And for 20 years youve been using your right hand to shift gears. Youve done it so often that its second nature to you now, and you dont even have to think about it. But you just showed up today for a race, and theres a sticky note on your car from the racetrack authorities that says "oh btw, we have removed the gear shift from your car. Now if you want to use gears higher than 1, you must push some new buttons on the dashboard which can only be reached by your left hand... kthxbye". Meanwhile, the guy in the next car over is a brand new driver, but he learned to drive with the new left hand ******** push button shifting. Who do you think has a better chance of winning the race that day.... the guy who gets to do it the same way he learned how from the beginning, or the guy that just got told he has to completely relearn how to drive 5 minutes before the race ?

[IceNinja]

So, I wonder who is PGI gonna fire over this "BRILLIANT"...Not! ...move

[TheMadTypist]

Hi, removing this function is a problem for me as well. Not an insurmountable one, but it certainly screws with most of my builds. After all, the 1 key is right near the movement keys and is easy to hit in a hurry, so 'mechs with more weapons groups had more ease of use if you set the active group to one of the further away, like 5 or 6, and tapped 1 when you needed it. At the same time, though, other 'mechs didn't need the extra complexity, so it made sense to leave it on one. Different 'mechs could be set up to handle their weapons differently, based on the needs they had. It gave different designs different game-feel. As it is, I feel like I'm being pushed into using fewer weapons groups on all of my designs, which means fewer differently behaving weapons. I thought we had enough issues with mass-boat-alpha?

I get that could screw with a newer player's head, so by all means leave 'fire active weapons group' unbound by default, but allow us to bind it ourselves if we want to use it. It was a powerful tool to help us make the game play the way that was most comfortable for us on a chassis-by-chassis basis. I can't imagine why you would want to remove that.

EDIT: I gave up on the sixth page, and there's a Dev response on the seventh. Geeze. Okay, so it's coming back, but why was this rearranged before that kind of solution was available? People have been sticking around despite the complexity for ages, making things more difficult for already established players seems like the kind of thing that should be considered as well before making these changes. Maybe hold back the change until you can fix the problem without creating another one?

In any case, I'm not rearraging everything if it's just going to get fixed later, I guess I'll try again in two weeks, see if it's been fixed yet. See you all then!

Edited by TheMadTypist, 06 November 2013 - 06:58 PM.

[Roadbeer]

IceNinja, on 06 November 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

So, I wonder who is PGI gonna fire over this "BRILLIANT"...Not! ...move

They don't fire people...
They just chalk it up as the cost of doing business in the hopes that the mouth-breathing console gamers who are too stupid to figure out how a KEYMAP works will be able to annoy mom enough to increase their allowance and spend it here...

While those of us who have been playing video games for 20 years and actually have jobs and disposable income are told to go **** ourselves.

[plodder]

Riot, for there is opportunity.

Rebel, for there is cause.

Rescind, for apathy reigns.

Or perhaps consider...in the pause, do not feign, or sell what is plain, in pain, painting the target bright, then ...fire..oops

Another b.s. Plodduction

[WazOfOz]

Cheers for the feed back Paul, much appreciated. I've also played MW games for 20 odd years & yes it is slightly more complicated than Tetris, but an overly simple game would be boring & would not have held my attention for this long . I like everyone else playing this game was new to MW once but we took the time to read tutorials experiment & learn the game, hence you have your core player group. new players to the game will require a tutorial since there is no lobby for them to come too, to ask advice. I'm sure most of us here would be more than happy to help new people ease into the game, if there were a way to communicate with them outside of a match. I'm sure even the newbs would appreciate all the options we have & that they can be bound to different keys once they know how it all works. I remember reading a post on forums that said new people were having trouble figuring out which way their legs were pointing hence we have 3PV, legs & torso twist were not removed from the game. sorry to sound critical but removing ' fire selected weapons group' seemed to be a crazy knee jerk reaction to someone in PGI ghosting over a new person/people, not knowing how long they were ghosted over for or how many matches the new person had played makes it difficult to know if they were learning anything at all. besides I would have thought it would be more frustrating to a new player to have fired their weapons (left mouse once or maybe twice then shut down from over heating from alpha's, those trial mechs can be nasty, and how would they know to do anything besides that without something or someone to tell them differantly ) anyhows thanks for the feed back again Paul hope to see you in the field... cheers

[BrainFlush]

This is still not back in the game? Are you kidding me? I still am not playing and will not play till they put this in. Wow.

How long will it take? How many monkeys should you throw at the problem till it solves itself?

How much more money do you need from me to not make idiotic mistakes like this?

I am pissed. Currently coming up on 48 hours without MWO. I am not joking. I am done playing till this is back in.

[Morang]

Paul Inouye, on 06 November 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

We are adding the ability to bind MB1 to "fire selected weapon group" but it's requiring a bit of trickery on the control binding end of things. We have engineering working on it right now and as soon as that is fixed, the bind will be available to you all again. Sorry for the inconvenience but this was something we did after watching new players have a problem with the current implementation.

In Russia this kind of design decisions is called "removing tonsils through ****". And I doubt it's highly appreciated elsewhere as well. Actually everything you needed was to rebind LMB to (already existing and previosly fired by "1" in default config) "Weapon Group One" and then bind any other key not used in default config to (already existing and previously fired by LMB) "Fire Selected Wepon Group". Deleting a function requires MORE work than just this - and, obviously, causes adverse side effects of freaking out the players who use this ability and know how to rebind keys in PC game.

All this if you're telling truth about causes of removal and/or intention to bring it back, of course - it's not something one can always expect from PGI.

[clearshot]

Without this option the game is unplayable for me.

I use the "wasd" keys with my left hand and to fire any other weapons group I have to use the numbers row keys now, which means I cannot effectively control the throttle or torso twist.

Who's bright idea is it to remove this option? I'm a software developer and it really ****** me off when stupid decision like these are made...I'm assuming removing this option was made by someone not doing the programming? Because no sane software developer will do something like this.

[xengk]

Im honestly still trying to understand what is the uproar about with the control change.

Im currently using a gaming mouse with 4 button + wheel, supporting instant access to 4 weapon groups (although using no more than 3). On the off chance that I need to use group 5 and 6, I press it on the keyboard or recofig my mouse buttons for that match at the start.
Even when playing from office on a laptop and a 2 button mouse, number keys are still adequate if not convenient.

This not a troll post or l2p post, I just simply cannot wrap my head around this particular issue people are complaining.

[Morang]

GrimReality, on 06 November 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Personally, one of the first things I did as far as keybinds go when I started playing this game was to change my settings to what is now the new default, and of the half a dozen or so other players that I helped teach this game to, we all found it easier to use Left Click = Fire Group 1. It makes more sense, I guess, unless maybe "that's how it's always been in MechWarrior," but for those new to the franchise or returning after a long time this new default mirrors what is more common in today's games (where left click = primary fire and right click = secondary fire and so on).

xengk, on 07 November 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

Im honestly still trying to understand what is the uproar about with the control change.

Im currently using a gaming mouse with 4 button + wheel, supporting instant access to 4 weapon groups (although using no more than 3). On the off chance that I need to use group 5 and 6, I press it on the keyboard or recofig my mouse buttons for that match at the start.
Even when playing from office on a laptop and a 2 button mouse, number keys are still adequate if not convenient.

This not a troll post or l2p post, I just simply cannot wrap my head around this particular issue people are complaining.

That's personal preference.

Before this patch I had four weapon groups assigned for separate buttons on my left-hand keypad. But they were always secondary to me, as I feel my left hand too occupied with piloting to be additionally taxed with firing weapons with it as well. There's only one left hand firing key I use truly often - Alpha Strike, I press it by thumb (I often use it to fire "the rest of the weapons" while weapon group currently assigned to LMB is cycling, when build permits).

My mouse have enough keys at first glance (LMB, RMB, two thumb "browser forward-back" keys and three clicks on mouse wheel - direct click and side scrolling clicks). But I only feel comfortable firing weapons with my trigger finger, otherwise accuracy suffers. Besides, I just don't want to occupy all available mouse keys with weapon groups (to have things like Zoom or targets selection at right hand as well). It's not only Mechwarrior. In other games I prefer to have max 2 firing buttons on my mouse as well. In most games RMB works as zoom for me (and in Mechwarrior too).

I use concept of "multiple firing buttons" on joystick in flight sims, this concept is not alien for me. In typical WW2 flight sim I have index trigger of my Saitek 52 mapped to MGs on shallow press and MGs+cannons on full press and then I have three separate thumb buttons for cannons, rockets and bombs (as you can see, index trigger is still primary). That is so because hand holds joystick in neutral position (not in pronated, as in case of mouse), so using the thumb does not cause "side jerk" (and besides, joystick works other way and you always apply enough force to it to make errors introduced by actions of your fingers less relevant). With a mouse that doesn't work for me.

[xengk]

Morang, on 07 November 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

That's personal preference.

For me, the LMB are often mapped to torso weapons and RMB for arm mounted weapons. Thumb buttons are reserved for lock-on weapon that require less accuracy, as you said, to avoid "side jerk".
In the case where I have multiple weapon type, ie arm PPC, mix of lazers and/or AC on torso, thumb buttons are use for torso lazer weapon as they less "twitch-y" than arm and AC.
Alpha strike is a matter of pressing down on all non-LRM weapon group buttons, or mapped to my left pinky finger's caps lock key. Left thumb for space bar(jump jet), c (coolant), v(arm lock).

It didn't occur to me to thought of the joystick users, and shed some light on the issue.
The last time I hold a joystick was for playing Star Wars: X-Wing and Wing Commander. If I remember right, back then they come with at least 3 buttons; thumb, index, middle or 2 thumb button.
Played MechWarriors 2 on keyboard only setup, and keyboard+mouse combo for MechWarriors 3 onward.

Edited by xengk, 07 November 2013 - 02:37 AM.

[T0RC4ED]

Paul Inouye, on 06 November 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

1) No.

2)

3) We are adding the ability to bind MB1 to "fire selected weapon group" but it's requiring a bit of trickery on the control binding end of things. We have engineering working on it right now and as soon as that is fixed, the bind will be available to you all again. Sorry for the inconvenience but this was something we did after watching new players have a problem with the current implementation.

So... can we expect this to be fixed in a day or so or is it going to be around the same time we get a fully functional UI 2.0 (with menus and settings that make sence)...or possibly the spider hitbox/hit detection fixed... or is this going to be some long awaited and ever illusive thing like the unicorn, bigfoot, and community warefare?

Suggestion: if its going to take longer than a day or two just revert to the old settings.

[NuclearPanda]

T0RC4ED, on 07 November 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

So... can we expect this to be fixed in a day or so or is it going to be around the same time we get a fully functional UI 2.0 (with menus and settings that make sence)...or possibly the spider hitbox/hit detection fixed... or is this going to be some long awaited and ever illusive thing like the unicorn, bigfoot, and community warefare?

Suggestion: if its going to take longer than a day or two just revert to the old settings.

I would imagine that there will be a hotfix at some point. I dont think they will make us wait two weeks.

[Valten]

Oh for the love you drama queens need to knock it off.
The game is NOT unplayable, though it is disappointing.
If you CHOOSE not to play until they change this than that's on you not the developer, live with it.
Stop complaining that you expect refunds every time something doesn't go your way.
This thread was meant to be CONSTRUCTIVE feedback but ya'll hijack it and turn it into a rant.
As a parent I can tell you that the one thing guaranteed to make me ignore a child's request is a temper tantrum.

KNOCK IT OFF!