131 replies to this topic

[Op4blushift]

Khobai, on 19 November 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

Shoot it in the crotch. Counts as CT.

Yes, for now. But what are we going to do wants it gets the pelvic treatment that the mechs in today's patch did? If PGI doesn't increase the CT size a bit taking it down is going to be even more difficult.

[Donas]

Looking at Koniving's paperdoll, I'm noticing that in every match both of his legs are yellow/orange and armor completely stripped in another. Since I don't know anyone at all that intentionally aims for the legs of an awesome (why would you with the world famous CT barn door) its probably safe to say that a hefty portion of that damage would have been CT damage yesterday, and a great deal more of his matches would have ended quicker with more of the focus being towards the middle.

Thanks for posting those, Koniving. Its been interesting reading while my client patches.

[Finn McShae]

BP Raven, on 19 November 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

I'm still getting killed to CT coring with yellow/orange armour everywhere else, although i have had games when i lost both sides before going down, but on balance i don't think things have changed all that much.

To be fair, I could say this about nearly all my matches on most of my mechs. Unless you're tiny its pretty easy to get CT cored in just about everything.

I might do some testing tonight but the only Awesome I have in my stable is the Pretty Baby... which is its own set of issues all together.

[Thorqemada]

Awesome is a Long Range Fire Support - the other Assaults should not be good at it and you had a Balance of Advantages and Ddrawbacks but this game has to many Mechs that offer only Advantages...so the Awesome, like some other Mechs, sucks...

Edited by Thorqemada, 19 November 2013 - 04:46 PM.

[Donas]

I'm curious what people are using to view the new hitboxing. Clicking on body components in the mechlab seems to NOT be an indicator of what the hitboxes are, since the cockpit was reduced, and highlights the whole head area, and since the pelvis still illuminates as part of the CT, and that was one of the core changes to the hitboxing.

Is there somewhere I can be looking to more closely examine the ACTUAL hitboxes?

[Artgathan]

Even if the hitboxes are better, the Awesome will still be outshone by the Battlemaster. The BLR can match any Awesome loadout, run faster, carry more armor and be more versatile (it has ballistic slots).

EDIT: This is why I think we need things to differentiate the mechs; either mech-specific "skill trees" or hardpoint limitations (so that only the Awesome could boat Big Energy).

Edited by Artgathan, 19 November 2013 - 04:53 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Donas, on 19 November 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

I'm curious what people are using to view the new hitboxing. Clicking on body components in the mechlab seems to NOT be an indicator of what the hitboxes are, since the cockpit was reduced, and highlights the whole head area, and since the pelvis still illuminates as part of the CT, and that was one of the core changes to the hitboxing.

Is there somewhere I can be looking to more closely examine the ACTUAL hitboxes?

Last I checked it was where you clicked, not what was highlighted (which were apparently, the closed beta hitboxes)

For up to date hitboxes: [Guide] Hit Box Localisation but they have yet to update for the new ones.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Would Training Grounds reflect actual hitboxes as in a live match?

[Donas]

Shar Wolf, on 19 November 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Last I checked it was where you clicked, not what was highlighted (which were apparently, the closed beta hitboxes)

For up to date hitboxes: [Guide] Hit Box Localisation but they have yet to update for the new ones.

Thanks, that makes sense. I've been offa the forums a while. Thought there was something out there but couldnt find it.

The FEEL of the awesome is much better now. I've always run it as a fast moving energy-heavy jousting harasser. And torso twisting seems MUCH more effective at spreading damage with it now.

Edited by Donas, 19 November 2013 - 05:03 PM.

[Koniving]

Lightfoot, on 19 November 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

The Awesome's crotch is now divided between the legs. Only other change was the sides of the old CT are slightly smaller, like one half of the distance the CT projects forward instead of all of it. That portion is obviously side torso now.

The pelvis splits left leg, right leg on the lower half. The upper half is still CT. The infamous "Thong."

With the reduction of the head hitbox, CT got bigger. Considering that CT is the 'clip' edge of the back of the mech... the entire head except a small part of the visor (front, back, left, right, top all = front CT), and the "breastplate" of the chest to include its sides are all front CT.

[Koniving]

Donas, on 19 November 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

I'm curious what people are using to view the new hitboxing. Clicking on body components in the mechlab seems to NOT be an indicator of what the hitboxes are, since the cockpit was reduced, and highlights the whole head area, and since the pelvis still illuminates as part of the CT, and that was one of the core changes to the hitboxing.

Is there somewhere I can be looking to more closely examine the ACTUAL hitboxes?

The highlights (Zomg it's glowing) is not an indicator.
However, "hovering" your mouse to see where it changes what part will select is, as is clicking to see 'where' the changes are.
Example.

• Select a side torso on your Awesome.
  
• Hover the mouse over the CT.
  
• Move down to the pelvis.
  
• Hover around the pelvis. Notice your lower left "outlines" the right leg. Your lower right outlines the left leg.
  
• Hover upper pelvis. Notice it goes back to outlining the CT?

The actual glowing selection is not representative. But where the mouse goes "outline this part. Outline that part" is representative. You can cross-reference this with Forest Colony testing ground and the Awesome sitting there.


For me the main issue is that you have an easier time hitting the CT from the front-side, than you do hitting the ST.

Specifically it appears that the invisible bounding box from the left-front and right-front favor the CT over the STs even when pointing at the STs. Changing the angle to face head-on, favors the STs over the CTs in the same spots. What this tells me is that there's some sort of bounding box overlap that can only be hit at certain angles. Where this becomes a problem is -- if you're trying to protect your CT, you give these odd angles directly to the enemy which allow them to fry the CT even easier. If you're charging head on (like in my good games), you'll probably die ST when hit in similar spots. (At long range I do tend to twist to protect my body as everyone aims CT).

I'll edit this with better pics tomorrow. My mouse doesn't show in the screenshots.


Here, my mouse is over the pelvis on the center, but slightly off to our right (the mech's left). The left leg highlights showing us that if we shot there it'd be left leg.


Here, my mouse is pointed at the very base of the laser mount. Notice the torso outline is on the LT. A shot there will hit LT.


This image, you can check for yourself, at this angle and pointing at the side-middile-front of the gun (specifically just above the dark gray part of the hand pointed \ that way). Notice what's outlined? CT, but that's on the left torso!


That's a bounding box overlap.

Here, missile pod. I'm pointing at the right-most missile (our perspective); closest to the CT. From the bottom, the second missile tube. Part of the RT. Notice the CT is outlined? But from the front, this issue doesn't exist. Only from this approximate angle.


Remember that hit boxes are very simplified. For example the Catapult is a pyramid with two cubes for shoulders and multiple boxes for legs. The front of the Awesome is a rhombus on the edge of a rectangular prism with another rectangular prism for the head. That rhombus is overlaping the cubes representing left and right torsos but only at a weird angle.

Edited by Koniving, 19 November 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Yes, training ground seems to be working for testing out the hitboxes. Go to River City and out in the water is an Awesome standing there.

The changes to the hit box are not as drastic as I thought they would be or hoped for. However, I am doing well in the mech, so it might be that people's perception is also part of the problem.

Here is a picture of the new hit boxes. There is a small line down the angled edge of the CT that is now the new border. However, I would have thought making the entire beveled/angled edge be side torso would have been better, but we got half of it.

Also, there is the new "thong" for leg vs CT hitbox on the hip box. Basically a big "V" down the center of the groin and tailbone for hitting the legs.

[Carrioncrows]

Boy

Did i waste my time trying to change this game or what?

Here are the updated hitboxes



And here is what the hitboxes should be like:



I know I told everyone not to get their hopes up but at this point feeling pretty betrayed.

Will be years before we can talk PGI into spending the time and money to do it right. At that point who cares.

Probably my fault for not doing a better job of explaining what it means to have intelligent hitboxes.

[NRP]

So what's the consensus? Better or still crappola?

Edited by NRP, 19 November 2013 - 06:05 PM.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Marginally better.

Honestly, they should have made the entirety of the 45 degree beveled edge be the side torso borderline, and not half and half as they have it now.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 19 November 2013 - 06:11 PM.

[ManDaisy]

My vote is crapola

[Carrioncrows]

NRP, on 19 November 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

So what's the consensus? Better or still crappola?

With the exception of the head hitbox change, Still a POS and not fit for play.

[RickySpanish]

Carrioncrows, on 19 November 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

Boy

Did i waste my time trying to change this game or what?

Here are the updated hitboxes



And here is what the hitboxes should be like:



I know I told everyone not to get their hopes up but at this point feeling pretty betrayed.

Will be years before we can talk PGI into spending the time and money to do it right. At that point who cares.

Probably my fault for not doing a better job of explaining what it means to have intelligent hitboxes.

The art of balancing is not to make extremely drastic changes, no matter how right they may seem. This is a step in the right direction, although the Mech doesn't have ballistics and or jump jets and or ECM so it's kind of still a bit naff imo.

[GalaxyBluestar]

still yet to try it but i can't wait to see if...

Carrioncrows, on 19 November 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

Boy

Did i waste my time trying to change this game or what?

Here are the updated hitboxes



And here is what the hitboxes should be like:



I know I told everyone not to get their hopes up but at this point feeling pretty betrayed.

Will be years before we can talk PGI into spending the time and money to do it right. At that point who cares.

Probably my fault for not doing a better job of explaining what it means to have intelligent hitboxes.

...

[Carrioncrows]

RickySpanish, on 19 November 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

The art of balancing is not to make extremely drastic changes, no matter how right they may seem. This is a step in the right direction, although the Mech doesn't have ballistics and or jump jets and or ECM so it's kind of still a bit naff imo.

This would be true if we were dealing with a relatively new mech with little play time on the book.

The Awesome has been around for a Year +

The changes has needed to happen for a year plus.

Any steps taken to balance this game is the same old video game development process. In video game development that process works out to projects, and jobs. Each project and job is time and money allocated to make this change. The change is done.

I am not annoyed that they made the change, I am annoyed that they didn't CHANGE it enough. So now what are the chances that can ask PGI to allocate more money to fix an issue that should of been fixed the first pass around.

Which is why I am willing to blame myself for not better explaining what the issue was, with the awesome in the Intelligent Hitbox thread.

I thought it was obvious to anyone and everyone, but I guess not.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 19 November 2013 - 06:31 PM.