98 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

I'm thinking my definition of Brawler and most of those posting "It's FINE" must be vastly different.

For the last 6 months, I have encountered nearly no other Brawler VTRs, everyone on the OpFor (and my own team) are sitting behind a hill playing Pogostick.

Now, a nerf comes along that is hugely more impactful on Brawlers than said Poptarts, and we have people crawling out of the woodwork calling themselves Brawlers and saying they are fine with the nerf.

ProTip:. Just because you are poptarting at 300 meters instead of 1000 doesn't make you a Brawler.

Also ANYONE (sorry IQfish) saying the Victor moved like a Medium, either never piloted a Victor, Never Piloted a Medium with a speed higher than 64 kph or is flat out delusional. Aside from leveling out new mechs, the ONLY Assault I piloted was a Victor. But 1/2 to 2/3 of my Matches are in 50 and 55 tonners (few of which I have set to break 100 kph). And the difference pref nerf was quite noticeable. The difference post nerf? Pray to god you don't have to 1v1 vs a good Medium Pilot (I killed VTRs regularly from my Shadowhawk pre-nerf, now it's child's play). The VTR shambles like a Highlander now, only of course without the benefit of the pre nerf JJs.

Did something need to be done to separate the Classes more? Absolutely. But the agility and speed adjustments should be largely a linear scale, from 20 tons to 100, not based on "class" alone. And then those agility stats could be tweaked accordingly when things like JJs and Hard Points were factored in.

The Victor SHOULD be more maneuverable than a Highlander or Battlemaster. It dang sure should outmaneuver the Atlas. And Jump wise, it should be on par with the Cataphract (though it's ground agility should be slightly less) because the Victor was built around jump capability from the start, whereas the Cataphract-3D had it shoehorned in later.

The Jump Jet nerf made the overall need for further agility nerfs questionable to begin with, but what any reasonable person would agree on is it certainly was not needed to be nerfed to the degree they were. All that did was further encourage the immobile, poptart meta among Assault jocks.

GG PGI, Close.

(But hey, leave them as is, I reckon. My job as a Medium Jock just got a WHOLE lot easier)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 03 April 2014 - 01:11 PM.

[Maggiman]

The thing is, Pgi wont do individuality. They have time and time again proven, that they only balance through making everything similar. Your Mech is an Assault? Be sluggish! This is why pulse lasers suck. This is, why the awesome isn't.
I thought about how to nerf the vik (because i am still convinced he needed it) and its obvious: He is a glass cannon, make him one. Reduce the max armor and you have a lot more individuality. But Pgi wont do that, only making everything similar (Wait for the clans to be just like everything else, just with exchangable arms instead of variants)

[Mad Strike]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 April 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:

Which Medium was it more agile then, exactly? A HBK or CN9 with a standard 200? I'm a Medium jock there, chief, and I also drive Victors, because they are like a Big Brother to my ShadowHawks. But even pre nerf, the difference between my Shad and my VTR was hugely noticeable. And my Shads run 280xls, so it's not like I'm comparing a streaking Light Hunter build to it. 89 kph vs 80 for my VTR.

(also, as for my Victor credentials, if one looks at my Dragonslayer, the serial number is 001. Because I have been driving them since literally the moment the servers came online with that patch)

Sorry dude but i just finished this with gaz guzzler above as you can see on page 3 and 4 so don't expect any kind of coment or anwser. NEEEXT!!!

Edited by strikebrch, 03 April 2014 - 03:01 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

strikebrch, on 03 April 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

Sorry dude but i just finished this with gaz guzzler above as you can see so don't expect any kind of coment or anwser. NEEEXT!!!

Please see the following thread for comparison with 55 ton mediums to show you that the Victor was not even close to as agile as mediums:

http://mwomercs.com/...20#entry3270444

[Bishop Steiner]

strikebrch, on 03 April 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

Sorry dude but i just finished this with gaz guzzler above as you can see so don't expect any kind of coment or anwser. NEEEXT!!!

lol-

[Mad Strike]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 April 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Please see the following thread for comparison with 55 ton mediums to show you that the Victor was not even close to as agile as mediums:

http://mwomercs.com/...20#entry3270444

Has i said....no more comments or answers.

[Bishop Steiner]

strikebrch, on 03 April 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

acquiescement without wanting to admit to submission

Sorry,

All I read was "sorry I have no actual argument, just a subjective opinion that spontaneously combusted when faced with the harsh light of facts and reality".

NEEEXT!!!

[Mad Strike]

strikebrch, on 03 April 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

Has i said....no more comments or answers. Right now im doing stuff my Huggin raven.........its.....fun

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Sorry,

All I read was "sorry I have no actual argument, just a subjective opinion that spontaneously combusted when faced with the harsh light of facts and reality".

NEEEXT!!!

Naaa more like i already discussed this yesterday and now give a *** XD

[Bishop Steiner]

strikebrch, on 03 April 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

Naaa more like i already discussed this yesterday and now give a *** XD

[XX Sulla XX]

I will just be happy when PGI does more to boost close in brawling. And not the kind where you just stare at the other mech and hold the trigger to see who dies first.

[oldradagast]

I did brawl in my Victors - Standard 300, AC 20, and 2 large lasers. Light on firepower, but good hitboxes and armor with jumpjets made for a decent mech that could take a beating with the Standard engine... now... well, it really has nothing going for it. The response is now sluggish and it not that hard to out maneuver me, which defeats the whole purpose of running a modestly armed mech that is tough and mobile... since it's not mobile anymore. I guess hanging out in the back and pop-tarting with the Victor will be it's only effective role anymore. Brilliant nerf - nice job breaking it, hero.

[Bishop Steiner]

oldradagast, on 04 April 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

I did brawl in my Victors - Standard 300, AC 20, and 2 large lasers. Light on firepower, but good hitboxes and armor with jumpjets made for a decent mech that could take a beating with the Standard engine... now... well, it really has nothing going for it. The response is now sluggish and it not that hard to out maneuver me, which defeats the whole purpose of running a modestly armed mech that is tough and mobile... since it's not mobile anymore. I guess hanging out in the back and pop-tarting with the Victor will be it's only effective role anymore. Brilliant nerf - nice job breaking it, hero.

The mech was always better with an XL. Sadly, even with a huge XL, it is as sluggish as it was running a small standard like yours. The whole advantage in the past was the huge engine allowed for quick twists. a Standard 300 allowed you to survive getting side cored, an XL 360 allowed you to twist fast enough to take that shot on the arm.

Now, even with the huge engine, it twists like a sloth.

[Mr David]

I dunno what all the fuss is about. This sounds like an "I use X, so don't nerf X" thread. Just took the old 9S out for a spin. It's a bit less agile, but still feels quicker than any other assault I own. It still performed it's role quite well and has burtal brawling hardpoints, 1 ton JJs, and a wicked good chassis for spreading damage. It's still one of the top mechs in the game. DS refund brigade, it's still one of the best hero mechs in the game. Obviously the Victor=medium is exaggeration, but even with it being agile in lore, it was still far too agile in this game, irrespective of poptarting. Looking forward to mech class agility realignments. All hell is going to break loose on the forum if precious Jagers and Cataphracts get a movement nerf.

[SgtMagor]

That's the whole point!, its agility, mobility etc. it was the selling point of the mech, what made it special. now its just another sluggish assault, that jump jets like a drunken butterfly that forgot to flap its wings.

[FireSlade]

Mr David, on 04 April 2014 - 11:13 PM, said:

I dunno what all the fuss is about. This sounds like an "I use X, so don't nerf X" thread. Just took the old 9S out for a spin. It's a bit less agile, but still feels quicker than any other assault I own. It still performed it's role quite well and has burtal brawling hardpoints, 1 ton JJs, and a wicked good chassis for spreading damage. It's still one of the top mechs in the game. DS refund brigade, it's still one of the best hero mechs in the game. Obviously the Victor=medium is exaggeration, but even with it being agile in lore, it was still far too agile in this game, irrespective of poptarting. Looking forward to mech class agility realignments. All hell is going to break loose on the forum if precious Jagers and Cataphracts get a movement nerf.

If they made the changes across the board, a lot of us never would have said anything. PGI did not do that; instead they hit only a couple of chassis with a mobility nerf right after they nerfed the JJs turning speed. Now a 300 engine in a Victor has the exact same twist speed as an Atlas with a 300, 60 degrees/s. That is a 20 ton difference, while if you go down 5 tons to the Orion you see a huge difference in mobility, 80 degrees/s. Hell, the Stalker has a faster twist speed, 70 degrees/s, and it is heavier than the Victor. Explain how any of that makes sense? (Did the math on Li Song Mechlab)

So this is why we have an issue with the nerf. The people on here who have been saying adapt to it or that they have not noticed a difference are the people who abused the meta, barely moving, running small STDs, poptarting, and did not torso twist for survival; otherwise they would have noticed such a drastic change. Oh and we did adapt but why bring a Victor when you can bring a Highlander? More weapons, more armor and better twist speed.

[Sam Slade]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 April 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

That may encourage the meta build though (2 U/AC5, 2 PPC), as with the larger engines you cannot do the double AC5, double PPC setup. 325-330 are ideal engines for doing those builds. With the larger engine you are forced to be a little more creative if you want your speed.

Not arguing for or against it at this point, just pointing out a potential issue.

Great solution for this! Only have zero convergence accuracy when you use Advanced Zoom + add a quarter to half second of activation time to the Advanced Zoom module. Then we can reduce cockpit shake and have convergence back!

[JayVrb]

I've been trying to play my Victor, but it's really taking a toll. As someone mentioned above, the "adapt and evolve" argument doesn't really hold because this build was a dedicated brawler... therefore I am going to notice more than those who run range builds with PPCs and AC5/2's; and I can tell you it's too sluggish for it's class.

It's one thing to make the poptarters hurt, it's another thing to cripple brawling. Brawling is the absolute last thing in this game that needs crippling.


XL 375
1x AC 20
3x SRM 4
2x Medium Lasers
AMS

Edited by Vrbas, 11 April 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 April 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

Did something need to be done to separate the Classes more? Absolutely. But the agility and speed adjustments should be largely a linear scale, from 20 tons to 100, not based on "class" alone. And then those agility stats could be tweaked accordingly when things like JJs and Hard Points were factored in.

Oh, don't worry, I'm sure that PGI will give the other assaults a 'normalization pass' just like they did pulse lasers to bring them in line.

Any day now our Atlases will pilot like a dying mud turtle.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ghost Badger, on 11 April 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

Oh, don't worry, I'm sure that PGI will give the other assaults a 'normalization pass' just like they did pulse lasers to bring them in line.

Any day now our Atlases will pilot like a dying mud turtle.

they don't already?
(since they are designed around a 300, you would think they would be a heck of a lot more "viable" stock, and have diminishing returns above, IMO)