83 replies to this topic

[Felio]

It happens a lot. You know, people sneak up, fire a shot or two, get hit three or four times, then back up around the corner or down from the ridge. Or not, if a teammate is right behind them.

It's gotten really dull, tedious and annoying. And you can suggest your team move, but they won't. You can try to start the conga line, but they won't follow. Bloodlust loses more games than anything else.

Like Koniving said in his tactical guide, engage the enemy on your terms, not theirs. If you don't like your position, don't stay there. But people do. Until they are dead. And most will never, ever learn. At least not enough that this phenomenon is going to go away by itself.

Normally I would suggest something like artillery strikes to quickly vacate an area as a deterrent, but we already have that. It neither has a lasting effect nor is something players seem to want to see more of. It can also be difficult to place perfectly without having chunks of armor blown off.

So... orbital strikes that automatically to blast any stationary mob to smithereens? Lengthen the time it takes to reverse direction? I can't really think of any solutions that wouldn't be terrible.

Give us more important objectives to run to? But then we may end up doing the same thing at the objectives themselves. Not to mention this would not improve the existing game modes of Skirmish, Skirmish With Turrets and Run For Two Minutes, Then Skirmish.

Edited by Felio, 19 May 2014 - 01:28 PM.

[Dymlos2003]

Felio, on 19 May 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

It happens a lot. You know, people sneak up, fire a shot or two, get hit three or four times, then back up around the corner or down from the ridge. Or not, if a teammate is right behind them.

It's gotten really dull, tedious and annoying. And you can suggest your team move, but they won't. You can try to start the conga line, but they won't follow. Bloodlust loses more games than anything else.

Like Koniving said in his tactical guide, engage the enemy on your terms, not theirs. If you don't like your position, don't stay there. But people do. Until they are dead. And most will never, ever learn. At least not enough that this phenomenon is going to go away by itself.

Normally I would suggest something like artillery strikes to quickly vacate an area as a deterrent, but we already have that. It neither has a lasting effect nor is something players seem to want to see more of. It can also be difficult to place perfectly without having chunks of armor blown off.

So... orbital strikes that automatically to blast any stationary mob to smithereens? Lengthen the time it takes to reverse direction? I can't really think of any solutions that wouldn't be terrible.

Give us more important objectives to run to? But then we may end up doing the same thing at the objectives themselves. Not to mention this would not improve the existing game modes of Skirmish, Skirmish With Turrets and Run For Two Minutes, Then Skirmish.

Stats like K/D are the reason. Stats should just disappear.

Also objective game modes should be added. Ala attack/defend or capture this one point and hold it(king of the hill) Would call for a lot battles. Needs dropships for that though.

[DocBach]

Holding key terrain and avenues of approaches while exposing as little of yourself as possible is a valid tactic; hill humping and pop tarting is similar to berm drills and going hull down in real mechanized combat.

[Blue Boutique]

Have a flat rolling map. Nowhere to hide but need to run into battle to survive.

Edited by Blue Boutique, 19 May 2014 - 01:43 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

DocBach, on 19 May 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

Holding key terrain and avenues of approaches while exposing as little of yourself as possible is a valid tactic; hill humping and pop tarting is similar to berm drills and going hull down in real mechanized combat.

yep - like in this "tournament" right 20min combat time and 0:0?
This is happen when the mission is to kill the others - but moving means that the other can shot you better - so nobody moves.

I think its a valid request to ask for "mission" objectives. For example Conquest would have been a "better" base for the tournament.

So what about Conquest with Turrets? You have to move - simple if you don't the others may be able to win by points.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 19 May 2014 - 01:46 PM.

[wanderer]

Long as there's cover, people will attempt to (logically) maximize it. The only effective solutions are weapons that allow one to fire arcing shots over terrain. LRMs would do the job- but ECM hard counters that in competitive levels of play. Same reason partial cover is golden in modern tabletop Battletech- not only are you harder to hit, but shots that normally would hit something are often absorbed by terrain. There's a reason some people suggest 'Mech mortars be added and others Arrow IV/artillery cannons. Mortars lob shots in arcs that clear cover, Arrow IV splashes damage, and artillery cannons do both. All three are available in 3051.

[Flaming oblivion]

Blue Boutique, on 19 May 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

Have a flat rolling map. Nowhere to hide but need to run into battle to survive.

Wouldn't work weapons would have to be balanced first on this kind of map ac's and ppcs would dominate more then they already do.

[Pygar]

Sniping from cover is logic. The problem is that many players don't recognize that there's proper times and places for sniping, and times when you have to flank or advance the line- because if you just keep sniping instead, then you are just waiting for the team who did flank and push to come find you and kill you.

[Bhael Fire]

I are confused. So...the OP is suggesting that using cover is a bad thing? Leeroy...is that you?

[Tombstoner]

A well played game of MWO or TT is much like chess. you need to work the angles and attack where the opponent is week.
trading damage is dum. sadly many, many people still do it.

[Warge]

wanderer, on 19 May 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

LRMs would do the job- but

...for some strange reason PGI made them guided.

[Graugger]

I believe in their dev blog for the 2.0 patch they actually promoted the use of poptarts so meh.

[Chavette]

The game was actually brawl centric, or at very least it was a very valid option when SRMs were still worth something.

[Dymlos2003]

Chavette, on 19 May 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

The game was actually brawl centric, or at very least it was a very valid option when SRMs were still worth something.

Use them right and they are. Also you need 80 ping maximum

[Chavette]

Dymlos2003, on 19 May 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

Use them right and they are. Also you need 80 ping maximum

Then why are they complaining?

[CycKath]

Chavette, on 19 May 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

Then why are they complaining?

My ping is generally three times that though, as it is for a lot of people...

[zagibu]

Every game with direct fire turns into a campfest sooner or later. The devs usually try to counter this with:
- don't have too many direct fire weapons like sniper rifles (can't do much, MWO must move withing Battletech frame)
- map design that includes lots of covered flanking and surprise attack routes (not really possible for MWO on all maps, because of the scale of the mechs)
- game modes that involve location changes (domination, headquarters, however they are called in other games...we already have this, and in conquest, camping is less problematic than in other modes)
- AI units that take different paths based on player locations (yeah...well, forget that)
- invent something special (like Ubercharge in TF2...not really possible for MWO because of Battletech frame)

[Flaming oblivion]

Don't use to many direct fire weapons would work , if the only indirect fire weapon didn't have more counters then anything else AND be at the top end of weapons on the weight spectrum , ballistics work out way better value then lrms all things considered, same for ppcs, Try getting a decent build that competes in the high elo where you can perform decently with lrms and a decent assortment of direct fire weps, gl you need it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Felio, on 19 May 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

It happens a lot. You know, people sneak up, fire a shot or two, get hit three or four times, then back up around the corner or down from the ridge. Or not, if a teammate is right behind them.

It's gotten really dull, tedious and annoying. And you can suggest your team move, but they won't. You can try to start the conga line, but they won't follow. Bloodlust loses more games than anything else.

Like Koniving said in his tactical guide, engage the enemy on your terms, not theirs. If you don't like your position, don't stay there. But people do. Until they are dead. And most will never, ever learn. At least not enough that this phenomenon is going to go away by itself.

Normally I would suggest something like artillery strikes to quickly vacate an area as a deterrent, but we already have that. It neither has a lasting effect nor is something players seem to want to see more of. It can also be difficult to place perfectly without having chunks of armor blown off.

So... orbital strikes that automatically to blast any stationary mob to smithereens? Lengthen the time it takes to reverse direction? I can't really think of any solutions that wouldn't be terrible.

Give us more important objectives to run to? But then we may end up doing the same thing at the objectives themselves. Not to mention this would not improve the existing game modes of Skirmish, Skirmish With Turrets and Run For Two Minutes, Then Skirmish.

[Mcgral18]

Dymlos2003, on 19 May 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

Use them right and they are. Also you need 80 ping maximum

With a 20-30 ping, I can attest this is a lie. 65% hitreg is a good day with SRMs.


As for the OP, as long as there is FLD there will be optimal poptarting and hillhumping weapons. It's superior to spread and DoT weapons in just about every sense, and with equal cooldowns there is no reason to bring the inferior or short range weapons.

Lasers can be boated to inflict more damage where you want, but the heat system prevents them from being the best choice. Hitscan and low weight, they can be a good choice but still can't compare to the heavy FLD weapons.