75 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Merchant, on 27 May 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

C'mon, Joe, you have been here long enough to know better, that description is way too narrow. ECM affects far more than Missiles, this was even proven by recent videos. Did you see them yet? I know some people are only going by their own games, while valid, time should be spent looking at certain other recent videos proving the argument against yours.

No I haven't seen them. A link so I can see what is being discussed?

[darkchylde]

IS ECM OP? Well, if it isn't then why isn't it available to all chassis? - why haven't we seen a new ecm mech? - why are the clans devoid of ECM when they have variants that run it? Answer is pretty simple - PGI created an ECM that is far superior then any of the TT versions combined - that alone makes it overpowered.

[Procyon Alpha]

HELL its not just dealing with it but the stacking is back to countering NARC. BAP does not do **** when there are 4 DDCs and 2 3Ls running together. Tell me once again how you are going to overcome that? So far you have not made a good case why I should not still be a little miffed about this ****.

[topgun505]

While I do agree the stacking is POTENTIALLY an issue. How much in practice IS it an issue?

When I go pugging, I very rarely ever see more than 1 ECM unit on my team. Once in a great while I will see an obvious 3 or 4-man team running nothing but DDCs ... and once in a great while MM will give us the luck of the draw and have 3 random ECM units (COM, CDA, and/or RVN). But that is the exception, not the norm. And usually when it is a random matchup like that the ECM lights do NOT tend to stick together ... so how often are people running in to ECM stacking issues?

Yeshua Kerensky, on 27 May 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

HELL its not just dealing with it but the stacking is back to countering NARC. BAP does not do **** when there are 4 DDCs and 2 3Ls running together. Tell me once again how you are going to overcome that? So far you have not made a good case why I should not still be a little miffed about this ****.

[Almond Brown]

Mcgral18, on 26 May 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

Hurray for dozens of tons of weaponry foiled by 1.5 tons!

Damn that Cover as well. Foils all weapons.

[Mcgral18]

Almond Brown, on 27 May 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

Damn that Cover as well. Foils all weapons.

And that's working as intended. Guardian ECM countering lvl1 tech is not. gECM being countered by lvl2 tech? That isn't supposed to happen.

[Almond Brown]

Mcgral18, on 27 May 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

And that's working as intended. Guardian ECM countering lvl1 tech is not. gECM being countered by lvl2 tech? That isn't supposed to happen.

I can't remember, but maybe you can, you seem to be in the know about TT. Does the ECM carrier in TT provide a visual warning, or rollable chance, for you to know about their presence when they get near you?

Hmmm.

[Mcgral18]

Almond Brown, on 27 May 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

I can't remember, but maybe you can, you seem to be in the know about TT. Does the ECM carrier in TT provide a visual warning, or rollable chance, for you to know about their presence when they get near you?

Hmmm.

According to Sarna, if you have BAP yes.

And this nice quote:

Quote

Contemporary guided missiles such as standard LRM or Streak SRMs are not affected by the Guardian suite and will be able to achieve hard lock as normal.

Quote

the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming.

Smurfy says it increases lock time by 50%. Yet you can't actually lock when covered by it.

[Procyon Alpha]

Lets Face it THIS IS NOT TT. I wish it was but no one here want to play double blind, though I think it would be a lot better. ECM is supposed to keep BAP from giving you the paper doll, it will also block NARC, on the other hand it does not make u harder to lock on too or make u invisible. But I am pretty sure a lot of players would be pissed that they have to have BAP or a targeting computer, ect.. to get a paper doll to shoot at.

Why is ECM implemented the way it is ASK PAUL... I think PGI thinks it is working great or something I dont know. Personally its these Tourney weekends that brings out the massive ammounts of ECMs. Durring the normal week not really as big an issue. As far as well play differently why should everyone have to play the META just to have a descent game. The point is this game should not push you into a corner and make u play a certain build, just to have fun. As far as some people on here that just want to white knight it and say everything is great and u just need to do as I do, you are not helping this game to survive.

Think of how frustrating this is for new players. I have been here a while and every so often get feed up and voice my frustration. I know nothing is going to come from it if I am the only one. We need this game to work we dont have an alternative till at least 2020. So lets at least hope that PGI will fix this, and yes I would love it just to be a BV MM, that would fix a lot of it.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

topgun505, on 27 May 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

While I do agree the stacking is POTENTIALLY an issue. How much in practice IS it an issue?

In league play for example on low tonnage drop if the enemy stacks ECM even if your whole team equips BAP you can't get locks for streaks. It stacks weird.

Also if there is an obvious problem, what does it matter if these occur rarely? Broken system should be fixed.

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

don't care for ECM much in fact I think its the most skill-less piece of equipment in the game and everyone relies to heavily on it, its always on disrupt, no one ever actually uses the "counter" mode. BAP and PPC counters are pointless 120 meters to counter, 4 second disable TAG doesn't have on/off option unless you macro it. the only thing that even remotely counters ECM effectively is a UAV and they can be shot down.

suggestions
ECM affects the lance its attached too, and only the lance not the entire team

passive sensors mode for all mechs, especially none ECM capable units. ECM units running passive sensors will have ECM is automatically disabled and will only operate under active sensors.

[Grayblue]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 27 May 2014 - 03:46 AM, said:

sismec sensor works wonders LOL So yet another counter to not being able to see mechs with ECM.

Then your real issue is lights not ECM. You never said anything about a ATL or cicada. There are only 3 Lights that can use ECM and no one uses the commando. So really only 2 light mechs you see in game that can use the ECM. One medium and one assault.

You are not suppose to see every mech the entire match. That would be boring.

If you stay in one spot and complain about not being able to see mech (ECM does not stop your line of sight btw ) thats your problem not the ECM..

And for the record I rarely run mechs with ECM. In fact I dont use them in pugs, only in 12 mans when I am asked to by my lance. I prefer my jenners, firestarters and raven 4x (the 4x is my fav mech ) and have no issue with ecm.

I am not complaining that I cannot see every mech every time. I am complaining about the irrational game mechanics that does not allow me to see it.

If you think ECM is not OP, then why not ask the developers to let me equip my favorite heavies with ECM, then let's see how well you fare against it.

Edited by Grayblue, 27 May 2014 - 03:30 PM.

[Grayblue]

There is only one reason why only few mechs can equip ECM. It will dominate the field if every mechs are allowed to equip it.

Those select mechs that can equip it is supposed to sacrifice something or develop another handicap when they chose to equip ECM.

However, in reality, there is no such sacrifice of handicap. Armament of ECM Atlas or Cicada, or other light ECM mechs does not have significant difference in firepower or other capability from other mechs of the same class.

It's a powerful device that comes with virtually zero sacrifice.

Edited by Grayblue, 27 May 2014 - 03:36 PM.

[GernMiester]

What if the ECM used jumpjet fuel as a timer? Silly I know but it will stop the perma bubble of invisibility and a mech has to decide, Jump or ecm and no more all day ECM with 0 penalty.
Flamers should generate 1 or less heat but use JJ fuel as well, they both shoot firey stuff out the wazoo.

[Wildstreak]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 May 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

No I haven't seen them. A link so I can see what is being discussed?

FIrst batch, Team Tournament.

Round 1 saw all ECM Mechs at least once, even the Commando.
However, Round 2 saw practically none. No ECM means no Stealth for anyone.
Both Rounds play different.
Round 1, more Sniping, waiting for the right moment before pushes began.
Round 2, more Brawling, some even going straight to the fight from the start!

Also Stock Mech Mondays matches.

The only Stock Mech with ECM is the Raven and it only shows depending on the time period.

Ask people in the Stock Matches either in their topic, in the one evaluating Stock Mechs or here what it is like playing without ECM.

LRMs are not the only issue.

As someone pointed out months ago, if ECM is fine, where is the Griffin-2N?

Edited by Merchant, 27 May 2014 - 06:30 PM.

[Wolfways]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 27 May 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

as far as "dozens of tons of weaponry foiled by 1.5 tons!" YES!
Only 2 types of weapons are effected by ECM. LRM and SSRM.

So it's fine that it negates missiles because you can use T2 equipment to get a lock?

Okay, let's make that apply to all weapons.
All mechs covered by ECM can no longer be damaged by lasers or AC's, but can be hit by ERlasers and UltraAC's.
I guess everyone would be fine with that.

[Livewyr]

Amusing:

"ECM is not OP!" In a thread demanding that this single, 1.5 ton, 2 crit slot, PASSIVE piece of equipment, be considered in the MM in order to balance the match.

(And for those of you who are confused as to why passive matters, consider this:

Installing ECM on mech + Forgetting it exists = It protects you.
Installing TAG on mech + Forgetting it exists = It does nothing.

I'd be a little less pissed off by this frankenquipment if the ECM mech had to train its cross-hairs on me constantly in order to achieve his stealth from me.)


--------------------------
I think we should make Gauss Rifles have Machine Gun rapid fire with 500rds per ton, ofcourse, if you bring [Gauss Rifle counter] it wouldn't be OP- so long as we have the same amount of Gauss Rifles on each team... Right?

----------------------------

Wonder why PGI hasn't introduced an ECM mech in around a year...

Edited by Livewyr, 27 May 2014 - 06:45 PM.

[Livewyr]

Wolfways, on 27 May 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

So it's fine that it negates missiles because you can use T2 equipment to get a lock?

Okay, let's make that apply to all weapons.
All mechs covered by ECM can no longer be damaged by lasers or AC's, but can be hit by ERlasers and UltraAC's.
I guess everyone would be fine with that.

The Magnetic Field Generator. (MFG)
1.5 tons, placed MFG hardpoint. (no heat, ammo, recycle)
2 modes:
---Magnetic Field Generation: All incoming ballistic projectiles are deflected harmlessly to the ground in front of all friendly mechs within 180m of the MFG. Also scrambles signals attempting to lock and disrupts enemy electronics within 180m.
---Magnetic Field Disruption: Disrupts a local MFG within 180 meters, cancelling out any effect on Ballistic projectiles and targeting/disruption.

Mechs with MFG Hardpoints: HGN-732, BJ-1, JR7-D, COM-1B and LCT-3M.

------------------------------------------------------

Ion Disruption Field: IDF
1.5 tons, placed in IDF hardpoint, no heat, no recycle, no ammo.
2 modes:
---Ion disruption mode: Generates an ion field around each mech within 180 meters of the equipment. Ion field scatters incoming laser beams harmlessly in all directions, and scatters enemy targeting signals. Also scrambles electronics on any enemy mech within 180 meters.
---Ion Normalization Field: Stabilizes an ion field around any enemy carrying IDF. (Removing the laser scattering effect and electronics disruption effect from all mechs within enemy IDF umbrella.)

Mechs with IDF Hardpoints: BNC-3E, CDA-2B, FS9-S, SDR-5K, and LCT-1V.

-------------------------------------------------------

Related equipment/modifications:
UAV :Now applies a Singlepower Magnetic Field Disruption or Ion Normalization Field effect for it's radius.
NARC: Now applies a Singlepower Magnetic Field Disruption or Ion Normalization Field for the mech it is attached to.
BAP: Now applies a Singlepower Magnetic Field Disruption and Ion Normalization Field within 150 meters.
PPC-MFG: Now hit the field and spread around the mech, dealing 5 points of damage spread over all components except the cockpit...Causes Magnetic Field Disruption to the mech it hit, if that mech has the equipment, for 4 seconds.)
PPC-IDF: Now hits the IDF field and overloads the IDF [generator] disabling the field for 4 seconds, and deals 5 points of damage spread evenly around the IDF protected mech.

New Equipment:
Magnatron Beam: 1 ton, 1 critical slot, 1 energy weapon slot. Range: 750 meters

While trained on an enemy mech currently carrying or effected by a local MFG or IDF, the field generated around that mech is disrupted, allowing ballistic projectiles and laser beams to connect as normal.


---------------------------

Seems legit.

Edited by Livewyr, 27 May 2014 - 06:50 PM.

[Wolfways]

Livewyr, on 27 May 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:

The Magnetic Field Generator. (MFG)
1.5 tons, placed MFG hardpoint. (no heat, ammo, recycle)
2 modes:
---Magnetic Field Generation: All incoming ballistic projectiles are deflected harmlessly to the ground in front of all friendly mechs within 180m of the MFG. Also scrambles signals attempting to lock and disrupts enemy electronics within 180m.
---Magnetic Field Disruption: Disrupts a local MFG within 180 meters, cancelling out any effect on Ballistic projectiles and targeting/disruption.

Mechs with MFG Hardpoints: HGN-732, BJ-1, JR7-D, COM-1B and LCT-3M.

------------------------------------------------------

Ion Disruption Field: IDF
1.5 tons, placed in IDF hardpoint, no heat, no recycle, no ammo.
2 modes:
---Ion disruption mode: Generates an ion field around each mech within 180 meters of the equipment. Ion field scatters incoming laser beams harmlessly in all directions, and scatters enemy targeting signals. Also scrambles electronics on any enemy mech within 180 meters.
---Ion Normalization Field: Stabilizes an ion field around any enemy carrying IDF. (Removing the laser scattering effect and electronics disruption effect from all mechs within enemy IDF umbrella.)

Mechs with IDF Hardpoints: BNC-3E, CDA-2B, FS9-S, SDR-5K, and LCT-1V.

-------------------------------------------------------

Related equipment/modifications:
UAV :Now applies a Singlepower Magnetic Field Disruption or Ion Normalization Field effect for it's radius.
NARC: Now applies a Singlepower Magnetic Field Disruption or Ion Normalization Field for the mech it is attached to.
BAP: Now applies a Singlepower Magnetic Field Disruption and Ion Normalization Field within 150 meters.
PPC-MFG: Now hit the field and spread around the mech, dealing 5 points of damage spread over all components except the cockpit...Causes Magnetic Field Disruption to the mech it hit, if that mech has the equipment, for 4 seconds.)
PPC-IDF: Now hits the IDF field and overloads the IDF [generator] disabling the field for 4 seconds, and deals 5 points of damage spread evenly around the IDF protected mech.

New Equipment:
Magnatron Beam: 1 ton, 1 critical slot, 1 energy weapon slot. Range: 750 meters

While trained on an enemy mech currently carrying or effected by a local MFG or IDF, the field generated around that mech is disrupted, allowing ballistic projectiles and laser beams to connect as normal.


---------------------------

Seems legit.

Yeah, i can imagine the forums being flooded with tears

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 26 May 2014 - 11:57 PM, said:

PPC counters ECM

The 6 PPC Stalker is viable again! ... chainfiring those PPCs to ECM mechs