58 replies to this topic

[skorpionet]

I want to tell you a story, the Victor's Death.

In the past time Victor mechs model were know for their mobility in the battle field, true brawler mechs. A bad day a man, in the factory, underpowered their specs, no more brawlers in the fight.
Thanks to jumpjets Victor mechs, above all Dragon Slayer hero variant (true money for it), were know for their jump sniper ability. A bad day the same man made a malfunctioning lot of jumpjets, all Victor mechs never leave the ground.
Then a new technology arrives on the inner sphere, more powerful mechs, more powerful weapons. Victor mechs can't do nothing to defend their lands, no one at the factory knew how to fix, no one listened to the mechwarriors.
At last new dropships can contain only 3 assault mechs, why descend on the battlefield with twenty tons less in a coffin? The Victor is dead and you've killed you.


p.s.: excuse me for my poor English language.

[CDLord HHGD]

Since the nerf was due to the meta-builds wrecking havoc on everything, you all did this to yourselves. My Dragon Slayer plays just fine if you don't try to meta it.

[Charronn]

I'll tell you a secret.I don't have jj's in my Dragon Slayer.
And..............it does just fine.

[Roland]

Because PGI was afraid to just directly deal with jumpsniping, by going back to the original cockpit shake that lasted through the entire jumping animation, all jumpjets on every mech have basically been nerfed to the point where they are no longer particularly fun to use, and are not very useful at all for mobility.

PGI, for reasons unknown, has decided that it's somehow bad for them to admit that they want to nerf jumpsniping... and yet, that is very clearly their desired goal.

So what we are left with is a situation where jumpsniping is somewhat nerfed, through an INDIRECT change that dramatically reduced all jumping capabilities.

The problem here is that no one really complained that jumping mechs were too mobile. That was never an issue. And yet becaues PGI was unwilling to just admit their intentions and deal with the issue directly (which is funny, given the fix was already in the game at one point, until people lied and said it gave them motion sickness, lol), they've effectively reduced the ability to use JJ's for their primary purpose.

[Carrie Harder]

It's not "dead," but at this point the old nerfs probably aren't needed anymore. The only loadouts that were truly "overpowered" back in the day were various poptart loadouts using 2 [ER]PPC + ballistic of choice. But those days are gone. Projectile speeds have been "desynced" and JJs barely lift robots off the ground anymore. Jets also don't provide faster turning speed like they once did, which also contributed to the pooptart meta. But, pooptarting ain't what it used to be.

The old agility nerfs are no longer needed...sort of like other old-time nerfs such as Inner Sphere laser heat (SL, SPL, ML, MPL all hotter than TT for no reason), various Catapult nerfs, AC projectile speeds, etc. But the Nerfinator doesn't like to retract old changes that outlived their usefulness.

Edited by Carrie Harder, 02 September 2014 - 08:38 AM.

[FlipOver]

Roland, on 02 September 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

Because PGI was afraid to just directly deal with jumpsniping, by going back to the original cockpit shake that lasted through the entire jumping animation, all jumpjets on every mech have basically been nerfed to the point where they are no longer particularly fun to use, and are not very useful at all for mobility.

PGI, for reasons unknown, has decided that it's somehow bad for them to admit that they want to nerf jumpsniping... and yet, that is very clearly their desired goal.

So what we are left with is a situation where jumpsniping is somewhat nerfed, through an INDIRECT change that dramatically reduced all jumping capabilities.

The problem here is that no one really complained that jumping mechs were too mobile. That was never an issue. And yet becaues PGI was unwilling to just admit their intentions and deal with the issue directly (which is funny, given the fix was already in the game at one point, until people lied and said it gave them motion sickness, lol), they've effectively reduced the ability to use JJ's for their primary purpose.

Did I understand you correctly?

Jumpjets primary purpose was/is to jumpsnipe?

Here I thought it was to maneuver over some small objects, decrease the fall damage or help on the turning... Boy am I mistaken!

Edit - I did misunderstood you! Thanks for the enlightenment.

Edited by FlipOver, 02 September 2014 - 08:48 AM.

[Roland]

FlipOver, on 02 September 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Did I understand you correctly?

Jumpjets primary purpose was/is to jumpsnipe?

Here I thought it was to maneuver over some small objects, decrease the fall damage or help on the turning... Boy am I mistaken!

I think you actually did misread me though... The primary purpose for JJ's was mobility, to allow you to jump over obstacles and up hills.

The nerfs to JJ's has largely reduced their utility for this purpose, because PGI wanted to indirectly nerf jumpsniping.

[FlipOver]

Roland, on 02 September 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

I think you actually did misread me though... The primary purpose for JJ's was mobility, to allow you to jump over obstacles and up hills.

The nerfs to JJ's has largely reduced their utility for this purpose, because PGI wanted to indirectly nerf jumpsniping.

Glad I submitted that post.

Don't know why seemed you were defending the jumpsnipe as the primary purpose of JJ's, that seemed wrong, so very wrong... had to say something.

But yes, I agree PGI takes the worst path to address the issues they have in front of them.

Unfortunately so.

[Roland]

Personally, I don't really have a problem with jumpsniping. It was a very powerful technique, and I use it myself, but whatever...

My main problem is that if I have to chose between having jumpsniping be impossible, but still be able to jump like we used to.. and the system we have now? I'd choose to have the full shake, making Jumpsniping impossible, but still be able to jump.

For me, it's more important to preserve JJ's utility as mobility increases, than it is to preserve them as tools for jumpsniping. If PGI absolutely needs to nerf jumpsniping, then just do it and don't drag down all jumping.

[Adiuvo]

Roland, on 02 September 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

Personally, I don't really have a problem with jumpsniping. It was a very powerful technique, and I use it myself, but whatever...

My main problem is that if I have to chose between having jumpsniping be impossible, but still be able to jump like we used to.. and the system we have now? I'd choose to have the full shake, making Jumpsniping impossible, but still be able to jump.

For me, it's more important to preserve JJ's utility as mobility increases, than it is to preserve them as tools for jumpsniping. If PGI absolutely needs to nerf jumpsniping, then just do it and don't drag down all jumping.

I'd rather fix the hill climb system so that incredibly powerful JJs aren't required. With powerful JJs there's a large difference between JJ capable mechs and non-JJ mechs that can't really be rectified via other equipment. Non-JJ mechs would always be second class citizens like they used to be.

[Khavi Vetali]

I'll keep running my 9S and DS and smashing face, thank you. Great performance from something that is supposedly in the grave.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Victor's not dead.

He just went home.

[Bishop Steiner]

cdlord, on 02 September 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Since the nerf was due to the meta-builds wrecking havoc on everything, you all did this to yourselves. My Dragon Slayer plays just fine if you don't try to meta it.

define just fine?

The nerfs to the meta, fine. My ability to out turn an Atlas had NOTHING to do with Poptarts, and got to tell ya..... the flood of VTRs on the field sfo the last year, 99% of them weren't Brawlers.

The VTR is a mediocre chassis now, at best.

[Roland]

Adiuvo, on 02 September 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

I'd rather fix the hill climb system so that incredibly powerful JJs aren't required. With powerful JJs there's a large difference between JJ capable mechs and non-JJ mechs that can't really be rectified via other equipment. Non-JJ mechs would always be second class citizens like they used to be.

I would tend to agree with this, that hills really should never slow your mech down to ZERO, unless they're a sheer cliff face. If they did this, it'd tend to fix many of the issues we have currently with mechs getting stuck on tiny rocks and junk.

That being said, I would still like to have JJ's reverted such that you could actually JUMP with them again.. meaning they provided significant vertical lift. And if we need to sacrifice jump sniping on the altar of balance to get functional JJ's again, then so be it.

[Carl Avery]

The Victor is still the best Inner Sphere 'mech, and the 'mech of choice for many of the top-scoring players (as it has several important things that the Madcat doesn't have, which can offset the Victor's lesser mobility and durability). I'm consistently seeing most of the pro-level players waffle between the Madcat and the Victor (although the former does seem to be the more common choice), because these are currently the two best 'mechs in the game. There aren't even any contenders; despite the Dire Wolf's unmatchable power, the pro-level players largely seem to be unimpressed with it, due to its singularly poor mobility.

If any jump-snipers were to bemoan that their pay-to-win "Hero" battlemech isn't clearly superior to another pay-to-win 'mech, I would have difficulty feeling sorry for them. A hero isn't someone who pays to make sure that he has better equipment than other players, and MC 'mechs should not be superior to C-bill 'mechs.

Edited by Carl Avery, 02 September 2014 - 09:21 AM.

[Roland]

Carl Avery, on 02 September 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

The Victor is still the best Inner Sphere 'mech, and the 'mech of choice for many of the top-scoring players (even over the Madcat, as it has several important things that the Madcat doesn't have, which can offset the Victor's disadvantages).

What are these important things of which you speak?

[Bishop Steiner]

Carl Avery, on 02 September 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

The Victor is still the best Inner Sphere 'mech, and the 'mech of choice for many of the top-scoring players (even over the Madcat, as it has several important things that the Madcat doesn't have, which can offset the Victor's disadvantages). I'm consistently seeing most of the pro-level players waffle between the Madcat and the Victor, because these are currently, unarguably, the two best 'mechs in the game.

: /

You mean, you consistently see the top tier players Poptart in their Dragonslayers.

Not really the same as the VTR being the "best mech". More along lines of a single, P2W variant abusing a broken Mechanic, to stay on top. And the TWolf? Do we need to explain that?

Roland, on 02 September 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

What are these important things of which you speak?

Atlas level agility, low mounted hardpoints, 80 tons class armor and nerfed JJs, I assume? Those all compensate for the ream of negative quirks, right?



Oh...wait.....

[CDLord HHGD]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 September 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

define just fine?

The nerfs to the meta, fine. My ability to out turn an Atlas had NOTHING to do with Poptarts, and got to tell ya..... the flood of VTRs on the field sfo the last year, 99% of them weren't Brawlers.

The VTR is a mediocre chassis now, at best.

Well, to be fair I excel at making mediochre chassis work. I do all mixed loadouts on everything and I do just find both PUGing and in my unit 12-mans.

I never went meta so I never feel these nerfs. I just wish they'd fix my damn FoV......

[Bishop Steiner]

cdlord, on 02 September 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

Well, to be fair I excel at making mediochre chassis work. I do all mixed loadouts on everything and I do just find both PUGing and in my unit 12-mans.

I never went meta so I never feel these nerfs. I just wish they'd fix my damn FoV......

and um...brawler ain't meta. And yeah, if you brawl with the VTR; you sure the heck feel it.

[Sandpit]

Roland, on 02 September 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

PGI, for reasons unknown, has decided that it's somehow bad for them to admit that they want to nerf jumpsniping... and yet, that is very clearly their desired goal.

because they don't want to piss off their current target audience which is the "competitive" crowd and that's where the majority of jump snipers came from (well the really good ones that were actually good enough to "wreak havoc" anyhow