94 replies to this topic

[Helsbane]

On occasion, I run a hybrid Raven 3L which tops out at 136 or so, even after tweak. I run max armor, a heavier weapon load, and stay close to the main force. I'm still fast enough to get away from most things, and have enough friends nearby to help with anything fast that comes after me. As far as other lights, my Jenners and Firestarters all go 150 or so.

[Sprouticus]

Green Mamba, on 29 September 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Really?
You trolling me now so I will stop

There have been plenty of threads on the DW. It is scary, like any 100 ton mech SHOULD be, but it is NOT the new meta. Especially in comp play.

Believe it or not, the DW is become LESS scary as time goes by, as people learn how to take it out reliably.

However all this is off topic. As the OP said, this is not a nerf thread.

[Eddrick]

No. If anything, Lights are not fast enough.

[ICEFANG13]

I think most mechs are too fast, I actually really like playing against clan mechs because they seem to have actual disadvantages in heat and speed with their firepower, but as engines are so much better to turn speed and heat dissipation (to the 250 engine anyway), running less than that on any mech is just not realistic. That being said, the Kit Fox is a really cool and fairly well designed (first of its kind) information-esk mech that has a good load of weapons-speed-hitbox-ecm/AMS that makes it viable, but not because of how IS lights are. The Adder is not so lucky, the ECM and interesting AMS on the Kit Fox actually has that speed drawback, but the Adder has... a fixed Flamer drawback? Ah nevermind.

Point is, the whole system is a little borked, but I always always always run the largest engine in my light mechs, except on an interesting Spider I made (with a STD, 240 I think?), in my iconic Jenna, I always have a 300, and optimize for DPS over alpha. Without that speed in game, if lights could only move around 100KPH, we wouldn't be seeing any IS lights, or even very many lights in general.

Speed is love, speed is life.

[Rogue Jedi]

I often will compromise on top speed for extra firepower or jumpjets,

e.g. my most successful Jenner build is a D with 2 SRM4, 4 JJ, 4 ML and an XL280 engine, 6 points short of max armor. if I wanted the XL300 I would have to sacrifice ether the Jump jets, some armor or some of the SRMs/ Ammo (with 2.5 tonnes I still often run out) and I consider the extra mobility of 4 JJs to be worth far more than the extra 10kph,
I could possibly get away with stripping armor from the head (usualy has 12 points) and side torsos (usualy max) to get everything to fit, but this would make me more vulnerable to lucky hits. as it is used for hit and run the extra 16 damage on the alpha is really useful.

all Mech design is a trade off, you have to make the decision of what you are willing to sacrifice, 142KPH is still hard to hit, and does not make any other serious compromises (it runs hot but is acceptable for a hit and run Mech) so I live with a lower speed

[FupDup]

Sprouticus, on 29 September 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

The better way to phrase the question:

Why is 1 ton of engine speed almost always better than 1 ton of armor? And how can that be addressed (or can it?) to make the cost/benefit closer to equal without making armor way OP on slower mechs.....

personally I dont think it can with this game engine & model of play. But it is certainly a question that we can discuss.

The thing is, lights tend to run both max armor and max engine, so the two aren't mutually exclusive. To actually test this, the engine limit and armor limit would both need to be 1 ton higher than they currently are, and make it impossible to do both (i.e. hardcode it so that you get EITHER 1 ton more armor OR 1 ton more engine).

I think that in many cases, that extra armor on the legs and torsos would help a lot, especially as we climb the weight scales. 1 ton more engine would just make my Griffin move 105.3 instead of 102.1 kph, but 1 ton extra armor would let me tank 32 extra damage (distributed between multiple body parts). Lights just choose speed right now because speed is basically their only advantage over other mechs (and they already reach their armor limit quickly enough, so why not take both?).

[Foxfire]

Really depends on the mech.

For my Jenners and my Raven 3l, I run the max engine size... on my other Ravens, I run a couple of notches below the max size because of how their loadout.

[Livewyr]

MeiSooHaityu, on 29 September 2014 - 07:42 AM, said:

Maybe...but I like the analogy anyway.

Besides...*Spoiler*

We never see him die. I'm sure he's dead, but we don't actually see him die LOL.

I managed to avoid the outright spoiler, but I suppose if anyone has any knowledge of the author, it would not matter as they already know not get attached. To Anyone. Ever.

[Adiuvo]

Sprouticus, on 29 September 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

There have been plenty of threads on the DW. It is scary, like any 100 ton mech SHOULD be, but it is NOT the new meta. Especially in comp play.

Believe it or not, the DW is become LESS scary as time goes by, as people learn how to take it out reliably.

However all this is off topic. As the OP said, this is not a nerf thread.

There haven't been any major leagues running since the Daishi was out for cbills. It hasn't had the opportunity to even be played in comp.

[Training Instructor]

The fact that Firestarters and Jenners have higher engine caps than mechs significantly bigger than them is really weird...especially since the Jenner and Firestarter just so happen to have a boatload of energy hardpoints to put the one ton wonder of the medium laser in.

30-40 point alpha, that admittedly is quite difficult to land if running at full speed, and then can run off around a corner somewhere.

Speed > armor
Speed > heat sinks

Nothing sadder than an Assault mech with 18-21 dhs that can barely keep up any rate of fire chainfiring medium lasers without overheating with the quickness, while Jenners and Firestarters can unload two alphas and then go hide to cool off.

Kit foxes do pretty well, but you don't see as many 5+ kills, 700+ damage games as you do from Jenner and Firestarter gunboats.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Swapping the engines in IS mechs has always been somewhat stupid. Being able to swap engines in and out of IS mechs like they're some sort of star league omnipod system, while making clans engine unswappable and with stock speeds is silly.

The devs really need to look at giving negative quirks to IS mechs when they can turn their mechs into racing cars. Seriously, why does the IS need MASC when all they have to do is put in a bigger engine, because apparently bigger engines have absolutely no effect on stressing the mech or the actuators. MAGIC!

[Christof Romulus]

00ohDstruct, on 29 September 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

Swapping the engines in IS mechs has always been somewhat stupid. Being able to swap engines in and out of IS mechs like they're some sort of star league omnipod system, while making clans engine unswappable and with stock speeds is silly.

The devs really need to look at giving negative quirks to IS mechs when they can turn their mechs into racing cars. Seriously, why does the IS need MASC when all they have to do is put in a bigger engine, because apparently bigger engines have absolutely no effect on stressing the mech or the actuators. MAGIC!

*shrug*
Rules is rules meng.

Roll NRSphere =P

[Project_Mercy]

They're definitely not too fast. That's their role.

The issue is, hit reg is terrible on the smaller mechs. It's why the greatest tank in the game is a spider. Try to charge a 100T assault through the middle of a lance, it'll never work, but you can run back and forth 10 times with a spider, and as likely as not come out with only yellow armor.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Christof Romulus, on 29 September 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

*shrug*
Rules is rules meng.

Roll NRSphere =P

Well clan mechs don't seem to have a problem with operating with stock config speeds, just saying that maybe the IS mechs and the max size engines need to be realistically revisited and balanced correctly.

[terrycloth]

I don't always use max engines. Right now I've got a (near?) max engine in my Jenner, but it wasn't doing significantly worse with a 255 instead of a 300. Raven 4x has a 235 so that I could put in a third ton of ammo for my AC20. Raven 3L is back to the stock 210 -- it was a little better with a 255, but not 5 million c-bills better. In part because being slow keeps me from running way ahead of the team and getting splattered (although it does mean losing against enemy lights if I do get caught alone).

And the spider works just fine with a STD 245.

[Xyroc]

Make my lights slower and I will leg everyone constantly! Even my corp mates!!!!


Whats with all the light mech hate ... no one pilots them as is and people are constantly trying to get their JJ's and Speed nerfed.....

Edited by Beliall, 29 September 2014 - 11:01 AM.

[Christof Romulus]

00ohDstruct, on 29 September 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Well clan mechs don't seem to have a problem with operating with stock config speeds, just saying that maybe the IS mechs and the max size engines need to be realistically revisited and balanced correctly.

Yes, this likely has nothing to do with Clan mechs being outright more durable, as dropping a side torso doesn't send the player straight back to their mech bays.

Or the superior range that all Clan mechs have, which allows them to engage from a far safer distance.

Or the superior firepower than Clan mechs bring to the table that allow them to drop threats faster.

It's gotta be the speed - that's what's definitely making the Clan light mechs competitive. So yeah let's just force Inner sphere light mechs to move at 90kph.

*scratches head* what's the speed of a Speed Tweaked Timberwolf again? Can't seem to remember...

[CDLord HHGD]

Livewyr, on 29 September 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

I managed to avoid the outright spoiler, but I suppose if anyone has any knowledge of the author, it would not matter as they already know not get attached. To Anyone. Ever.

Remember, Winter is coming... Eventually.... We are meant to believe....

[process]

My IS lights operate optimally around ~140 kph after speed tweak, which is generally equivalent to using an XL 280 engine. At this point, I'd say the speed is pretty darn necessary for survival versus canon values, although more speed isn't necessarily a substitute for getting yourself caught out in the open.

[Revis Volek]

Wolfways, on 29 September 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

Is this in team matches or something? I can honestly say lights rarely (if ever) get 1-shotted in any solo matches I've played since closed beta.

I one shot light pretty often in High Alpha mechs.....My MDD with 5 Med Pulse can leg most Lights in one shot of all 5 and then kill it with 1 SRM blast. If they dont go fast they are dead. But the whole game is too fast..KPH wise at least.