44 replies to this topic

[LoRdLoSs1337]

Well I've had enough of this 50/50 win/loss ratio crap.
When I join a game, i want a equal chance to win. But hey, that never happens. EVER.
For as long as I can remember playing this game, it's always been a complete stomp for one of the teams. What I want to know is why you would design a matchmaker around keeping your win/loss ratio at 50/50?

Yea I am mad. Because even if the entire team is communicating, together as a group, constantly changing positions and concentrating fire, even then we still lose 2-12.

How does that even happen? This would have been the best game ever with the most collaboration between team mates, and yet according to one of the enemy players, communication was minimal between their team.

So even if you have your entire team working together, you could still lose.
Hooray for 50/50 win/loss matchmaking.

[Ironwithin]

Cya, have fun playing other things.

[jackal404]

Ironwithin, on 29 September 2014 - 06:31 PM, said:

Cya, have fun playing other things.

I agree with OP, of three matches last night, our four man group got stomped twice by the same ten man team. We've given up on completing the lance challenge, as the losses far exceed the wins. I have 17 wins to 41 losses, and most of those wins come from dropping solo.

We just want a fair chance to win and that doesn't seem to exist.

Comments like yours make me, as a newer player, feel like I'm not wanted here - fine.

Edited by jackal404, 30 September 2014 - 05:58 AM.

[ZenFool]

Okay, I can understand the rage a little bit. This weekend was especially harsh, with stomps on both sides being overwhelmingly common. However, the last few months have seen a dramatic improvement in this, with close matches far outweighing the stomps. I think what we experienced this weekend had to do with MM expanding its net to keep people from waiting. Personally I'd rather wait another minute to get a good match, but so many people complained about wait times during the initial 3/3/3/3 that they changed how MM works. On a side note, did anyone notice that despite the 1.5 modifier 3/3/3/3 went right out the window this weekend?

[Ironwithin]

jackal404, on 30 September 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:

...
Comments like yours make me, as a newer player, feel like I'm not wanted here - fine.

I was simply reacting to the OP's obnoxious "DO IT NAO OR ME QUITS"-attitude...

Personally, by now I believe the whole Elo-ratings system is overly complicated and basically useless for groups. Keep new players with cadet-bonus mostly to themselves, sprinkle two or 3 non-cadets in per team and for everyone else just randomly mix and match with the only criteria being 'mech-class, maybe weigth and roughly same-sized groups (+-1).
Playing in group-queue with a small group is just atrocious. You constantly get matched up against 9+man groups while your team consists of a ragtag band of 2s and 3s. You know the MM has just predicted you will lose and only severe incompetence on your enemy's part will make any difference, no matter how well you and your friends play.

Try it for a month or two and if it doesn't work go back to the Elo-ratings... what's the worst that could happen ?

Solo-drops on the other hand are a lot more fun than they used to be, there the Elo system seems to be working fine. It just doesn't scale well with groups it seems.

ZenFool, on 30 September 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

On a side note, did anyone notice that despite the 1.5 modifier 3/3/3/3 went right out the window this weekend?

In the last months the light and medium percentages only very rarely went over 10-15% whenever I looked at them so 3/3/3/3 has been camping outside the window for quite some time and by now probably built itself a shelter out of sticks and leaves to not freeze to death.

Edited by Ironwithin, 30 September 2014 - 08:35 AM.

[-Ramrod-]

I have to agree that solo dropping has gotten much much better. But yes 3 mans are constantly getting pitted against 8+ mans. 8+ mans should have a separate queue. This would make finding a match take longer but I'll wait the extra 30 seconds instead of losing within 4 minutes.

[senaiboy]

Ramrod AI, on 30 September 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

I have to agree that solo dropping has gotten much much better. But yes 3 mans are constantly getting pitted against 8+ mans. 8+ mans should have a separate queue. This would make finding a match take longer but I'll wait the extra 30 seconds instead of losing within 4 minutes.

That wouldn't work, for the reason that an 8-man team needs 4 more players, a 9-man team needs 3 more players, etc. It is simply not possible to create a separate queue. The matchmaking setup has been through endless debate and will never be perfect. The current one we have is the 'best for most' version.

Back on topic ie. matchmaking, solo drops have improved a lot since last year. I can't decide whether I like the current system or not, although personally I'd prefer a tiered system instead. Grab a group of players with similar experience/skill and randomly allocate into either team. Statistically both sides will have even chance of winning, in the long run.

[jackal404]

senaiboy, on 30 September 2014 - 03:15 PM, said:

That wouldn't work, for the reason that an 8-man team needs 4 more players, a 9-man team needs 3 more players, etc. It is simply not possible to create a separate queue. The matchmaking setup has been through endless debate and will never be perfect. The current one we have is the 'best for most' version.

I don't see how you can believe that the current group queue is "The current one we have is the 'best for most' version." For many casual players, it just isn't worth playing. I don't know of anyone who likes to loose at least twice for every win. I don't know what the solution is, but something must be fixed to minimize that.

Edit: Just talked with one of the guys I tend to drop with and we have an idea.

1-If you loose 3 to 4 matches in a row, you should get a larger drop to your ELO.

2-If you get stomped 12-3, 12-2, 12-1, or 12-0 you should get a larger drop to your ELO.

Edited by jackal404, 30 September 2014 - 04:06 PM.

[SoggyGorilla]

Two things you are doing that are causing most of the issues here.

1. play in a larger group. more players on your team, is a better chance for winning.
2. dont play crap mechs. Resist the urge to bring your boars head lazer boat with 6 large pulse and an XL380.
3. stick with the group and shoot down UAV.

those 3 rules will improve your win to loss ratio. otherwise play in the solo queue with the rest of the players that cant play the group queue.

[jackal404]

SoggyGorilla, on 30 September 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

Two things you are doing that are causing most of the issues here.

1. play in a larger group. more players on your team, is a better chance for winning.
2. dont play crap mechs. Resist the urge to bring your boars head lazer boat with 6 large pulse and an XL380.
3. stick with the group and shoot down UAV.

those 3 rules will improve your win to loss ratio. otherwise play in the solo queue with the rest of the players that cant play the group queue.

1-Don't have that many friends who play MWO.
2-Only own one.
3-OK, that I can do.

So, since my small group of friends keep getting stomped, we should go play solo queue? And this makes this a group activity how? "Hey Tom, you should see how I just destroyed this Stalker." Somehow, that doesn't seem to be a group game.

Oh, and before you say go join a clan (or whatever they're called here), with a 0.21 KDR - they aren't going to touch me. Guess that means I should go play even more time in the solo queue and hang back waiting to steal a kill?

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

If you are a brand new player, do not expect to be anywhere near average level before you hit 1000 matches minimum.
This game is populated by people who have been piloting mechs for 20+ years, you simply do not acquire the experience overnight.

To alleviate this problem some units facilitate training courses and exercises, guides and practice environments through private lobbies and group play, spectating someone while on voice comms will let you learn more as well.

Kdr for someone who is new to mech games and have less than 1000 matches mean nothing, neither does W/L ratio.

A good cadet is not one with skills above average, it is one willing to refine them beyond perfect.

Another note is that KDR is not an accurate indicator of skill in any way, infact an especially bloated KDR is a often a sign of cowardice and greed.

[DEMAX51]

jackal404, on 30 September 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

Oh, and before you say go join a clan (or whatever they're called here), with a 0.21 KDR - they aren't going to touch me. Guess that means I should go play even more time in the solo queue and hang back waiting to steal a kill?

A lot of groups out there don't give a single crap about your skill level or KDR. If you're at all interested in having a larger group to play with, check out the recruitment subforums and look for a group that seems like the right fit for you.

[Bront]

jackal404, on 30 September 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

Oh, and before you say go join a clan (or whatever they're called here), with a 0.21 KDR - they aren't going to touch me. Guess that means I should go play even more time in the solo queue and hang back waiting to steal a kill?

My KDR isn't that great (it's actually dropped to .75), but I'm a higher up in a unit. Some units don't care about KDR, and some players realize there's more than KDR in the game.

Sometimes you win in streaks, sometimes you lose in streaks. THere's more than just the matchmaker in play here too. If I ever trot out a new mech, My ELO is still higher than it likely should be till I learn the mech. Or if I play a new/different loadout. Same with teammates, folks I play with/against, etc.

Plenty of teams that work off of public hubs, and many of them have a spot for all comers. Not every unit is ultra-competitive.

[Sudden]

Bront, on 01 October 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

THere's more than just the matchmaker in play here too. If I ever trot out a new mech, My ELO is still higher than it likely should be till I learn the mech. Or if I play a new/different loadout. Same with teammates, folks I play with/against, etc.

you guys complain too much the match maker is ok.not perfect but ok. mw is not a game where you will get a perfect balance. in any case. the whole balance thing is faar overrated.

[MountainCopper]

It isn't really the MM which is too much to blame here in my opinion.

The team which is 2, 3 or even 4 Players down early has lost the match. Simply as that. From observation, of 20 matches played, in 19 this is the case.

The main issue isn't the MM, but situations there players are fighting superior numbers. Be it 1 player against 2, 3 against 5, or 6 vs 9.
When being outnumbered, superior player skill or more experience means very little for the outcome of the match (the fight in this case), because their simply are more hitpoints and weapons on the opponents' side of the fight.

Leading to these well known 50/50 dice rolls for the match outcome mostly regardless of skill.

Edited by GoldenFleece, 02 October 2014 - 12:15 AM.

[LauLiao]

LoRdLoSs1337, on 29 September 2014 - 04:52 PM, said:

What I want to know is why you would design a matchmaker around keeping your win/loss ratio at 50/50?

Because they tried a 80/20 matchmaker and the 80s loved it but the 20s hated it for some reason. *eyeroll*

[Caballo]

I don't see the problem of being stomped while playing with my team vs. a group of pugs. We surely made a mistake.

For the rest of the thing, go opening a post to apply pressure on PGI to create the damn VOIP they advertised 3 years ago. That will surely limit the number of pugstomps (Unless you're playing in the same team with a bunch of CS rat kids)

[Voivode]

jackal404, on 30 September 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:

I agree with OP, of three matches last night, our four man group got stomped twice by the same ten man team. We've given up on completing the lance challenge, as the losses far exceed the wins. I have 17 wins to 41 losses, and most of those wins come from dropping solo.

We just want a fair chance to win and that doesn't seem to exist.

Comments like yours make me, as a newer player, feel like I'm not wanted here - fine.

As an experienced player let me say that this happens. That's just the way this game goes for whatever reason. Sometimes you get on a hot streak, sometimes you'll get on a cold streak. The best thing to do is just step away when it gets cold. Take a break, drink a beer, watch some TV, do some IRL stuff or pop open a different game for a little while. I've been playing for over two years, and let me tell you, sometime MWO can just piss you right off. Come back tomorrow and your luck will be different.

[jackal404]

Voivode, on 01 October 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

Come back tomorrow and your luck will be different.

How many tomorrows do you need before that luck changes? Since I started, it's been too many losses with the occasional win. I've had better success with COD:MW than I have had with MWO. I'm about ready to throw in the towel and call it quits.

[Deathz Jester]

I've had days of nothing but wins, I've also had days of nothing but losses, and then there's the days in between of mixed W/L. And I (and others) have been here a hell of a lot longer than you and endured even worse matchmaking. So buck up, practice, and just go into matches not expecting much and be pleasantly surprised when you win, and less disappointed when you lose.



It gets better, you just need to try.

Edited by Iron Harlequin, 01 October 2014 - 12:20 PM.