270 replies to this topic

[Ulises]

i´d like suggest to developers, add some quirks to Highlander, IOT reflect the special endurance of its legs. (Highlanders should kill enemies using the "highlander burial", but in fact, often lose his legs in a stupid and not severe fall in alpine peeks).

Thanks for yours efforts IOT improve this amazing world!!!

[Nightmare1]

Ulises, on 14 December 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

i´d like suggest to developers, add some quirks to Highlander, IOT reflect the special endurance of its legs. (Highlanders should kill enemies using the "highlander burial", but in fact, often lose his legs in a stupid and not severe fall in alpine peeks).

Thanks for yours efforts IOT improve this amazing world!!!

How does this fit in with Mentorship Systems???

Stay on topic please. There are other threads for Mech feedback.

[Freeborn Surat]

Sirius Drake, on 13 October 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

Yeah the 2 people Premium need for private matches is a problem when it comes to mentoring.
Maybe remove it at all.
I can not see the need for it at all to be honest.

^This please!!!!^

[Threat Doc]

I wish I could have seen this starting back in October. I'm going from a fresh perspective here, not having read anything else to this point.

Kyle Polulak, on 13 October 2014 - 01:18 AM, said:

...Mentorship system based around the game.

This would be absolutely fantastic. However, since the primary purpose of this game, at this point, is in 'Mech combat, it would be nice to have a FREE place to work from for training. Would it be possible to have a Training game mode where up to two twelve-man elements, perhaps as BlueFor and OpFor to, with up to an additional full Lance of training cadre folks in spectator mode, or in 'Mechs as referee's and trainer's, can launch on ANY map to-date for the sake of training? To be honest, I would like to see maps like those from MechWarrior II: 31st Century Combat, where the Clans had obstacle course's laid out to help teach MechWarrior's how to move and shoot, or for MechWarrior II: Mercenaries where the first contract is an assignment with Hansen's RoughRiders, and the first few missions are about similar things, only with live targets. A system like that would be the biggest boon in this game, right now. You want mentorship... how about training first, and mentorship once someone is out of the unit basic training and into a real position in the unit.

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I have often found that, since we are a team-based game: The guidance of a veteran player has frequently provided more of a direct benefit to new players than other systems, such as our tutorials and training grounds.

Look, the tutorial (singular) is great, and it would be nice to have some others to help give players more of the basics, rather than squeezing it into a few minutes, but the training grounds REALLY need to become training grounds, not single-'Mech shoot the statues type of work. A unit trainer should be able to take a new guy into any of the maps and give them the basics. Make tall turrets that are set up like 'Mechs -two 'legs', two 'arms', a 'head', three 'torso's', front and back, and perhaps weapons loadouts akin to the stock variants of the 'Mech(s) being confronted. This should have been one of the very first things done, a unique training map, or it should have been done with the release of Tourmaline Desert, Terra Therma, River City or Crimson Strait, and Canyon Network. These need to be available without paying MCs or requiring Premium Time, and they need to be available for drop by members all of the same unit.

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The more an idea may require of an engineer, designer, artist or other developers to accomplish and put into action, the more time it may invariably take to accomplish.

Granted... so, take the four I mentioned -remember, the city maps are listed as OR- and kit them out for training maps. You have four distinctive environments, there, these are older maps so everyone knows them, anyway, and set them for training, even with training dummies like I described.

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As such, any ideas which are readily achieved through tools already at our disposal such as the forums, account manager, and in-game with the present features would be equally if not more valuable here!

There you go, then.

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The first thing I can think of is dropping some bonus premium time to some of those who have stood as paragons of mentorship thus far in the New Player Help forum. Koniving and Redshift2k5 are the first on my list, feel free to nominate others for me to review.

As much as I honor Koniving and Redshift for the work they have put into the forums, and into new people, this should be a labor of love -and I'm certain it has been for them- and, though the extra PT might be nice, and could be used as a good incentive for more folks to come into MWO, especially if they know they'll get help playing the game, and from really good people, this just shouldn't even be a thing.

PGI are picking themselves up from being knocked down too many times, now that IGP are gone from the picture, and that's all to the good; however, what we need, now, are ways to show new players they are not alone, and the best way to do that is to give them a FREE place to gain training from the unit they have chosen to join, rather than throwing them immediately into the meat grinder.

Edited by Kay Wolf, 18 December 2014 - 10:15 PM.

[Threat Doc]

Karl Streiger, on 13 October 2014 - 04:29 AM, said:

Mentors getting stuff by cheating...

How about we take a step back and not consider that everyone in the world is going to be cheating, force those who do cheat to have to earn it, and there is no bonus for the "cadet" accounts, so why help the mentor cheat?

Mentors should be appointed by their units, but they are called Training Cadre members, and a unit could have one per 36 players for Inner Sphere -Battalion-, or one per 30 players for Clan -Binary. Training Cadre/Mentors should receive only what they are given by the unit in the interface, or on the external web page, or whatever, for their service. Then, make it so the unit Commander can purchase Premium Time, as they see fit, for the Training Cadre completing the tasks, now that it's available in the store, but they can use C-Bills to do it, whatever the conversion rate is from MC to C-Bills, just reverse it, but it can come from Unit Coffers.

Thus endeth page 1 of this discussion.

[Threat Doc]

Gauvan, on 13 October 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

The only working system I can see giving real world value items is one where folks can donate to another player who they felt helped them in some way. However this opens up the floodgates to gold farmers (funds transfer would be possible) and the like so that's a no go I think.

I don't think we should abandon the outer battlements so lightly, Faramir. I really like where you're headed with this, and if a cap were put on it, it's not really 'gold farming', anymore, is it. Say the standard training price is 25,000 C-Bills per full training drop... due payable on 10% of the new MechWarrior's in-game take until it's all paid off. I don't see how that could go wrong.

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Do people think there would be sufficient community support to operate a PGI-hosted wiki? It would provide an additional outlet for folks who want to make a community contribution and might provide a better source for certain kinds of info to new players than a forum.

There are already two wiki's out there for MWO, to the best of my knowledge, and they already contain a lot of great information. For 'Mech design there's Smurfy's... I don't think we would need one that's PGI-hosted.

Ovion, on 13 October 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

To me, logically, the 'easiest' way would be the option for a 'Cadet Lance' with a Mentor 'captain' (who is someone with 100+ games under their belt) that can take lead, and 1-3 'Cadets' (say, 100 games or less? maybe more for this cap).

I'm thinking a system like the Private Match queue, but free to those with the Training Cadre tag. Your Mentor/Training Cadre would have to be appointed by the Unit Commander, and you could do two for purposes of the drop, one for each team, but ONLY members of the same unit could drop in that. The moment you add an outside unit, we're back to Premium Time. As has already been expressed, ALL systems can be gamed, ALL systems can be abused; let the systems be abused by those who don't use them right, just so the rest of us could have a place to be. How is their abuse of the system going to negatively impact the game in such a closed environment?

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Mentors can either join a 'mentors queue' and automatically receive 3 cadets (new starters), or create a group and select 'Mentor Lance' or something.

I could see this, actually, and it would also be up to the unit to schedule in training drops they wanted to.

That's it for page 2, and it's late, so I need to go... maybe more tomorrow.

[Nightmare1]

Wow....Kay found a new thread that he likes!

It looks like he has a couple fresh ideas and a few repetitive ones. I think that's a good thing because it offers some new perspective and reinforces some of the more common themes found on this thread.

Like I've said before, the biggest thing we need, in terms of Mentorship Systems, is the ability to easily pair unseasoned pilots with a vet player for drops against similarly comprised groups (probably from the same Unit or pool of unseasoned players if we're talking solo pugs) or drops on the Training Grounds. This allows the relatively equal groups to fight it out on a level playing field while the veteran players teach them about Mech movement and combat. Even a new training grounds map with turrets replacing Mechs would be helpful because new pilots could learn about Mech and component damage.

[Threat Doc]

Nightmare1, on 19 December 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

Wow....Kay found a new thread that he likes!

Yeah, but I'm not likely to get to the third page, or further, for the time being, unfortunately. As for being a new thread, this one began in October, and I should have been paying better attention to it. I could have also engaged Niko meaningfully, then, and the discourse would have been more succinct and accurate.

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It looks like he has a couple fresh ideas

Thank you.

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and a few repetitive ones. I think that's a good thing because it offers some new perspective and reinforces some of the more common themes found on this thread.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, right? Or, is that the squeaky wheel gets greased? Hehe, I never can tell.

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Like I've said before, the biggest thing we need, in terms of Mentorship Systems, is the ability to easily pair unseasoned pilots with a vet player for drops against similarly comprised groups (probably from the same Unit or pool of unseasoned players if we're talking solo pugs) or drops on the Training Grounds. This allows the relatively equal groups to fight it out on a level playing field while the veteran players teach them about Mech movement and combat. Even a new training grounds map with turrets replacing Mechs would be helpful because new pilots could learn about Mech and component damage.

Truthfully, though this WOULD be a nice addition to the game, Command & Staff members, of which the Training Cadre Officer-in-Charge should always be one- need to be mindful of incoming cherries, and make time to train them, to engage them in email and PMs to get them into the game for training.

[Nightmare1]

Kay Wolf, on 19 December 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

Yeah, but I'm not likely to get to the third page, or further, for the time being, unfortunately. As for being a new thread, this one began in October, and I should have been paying better attention to it. I could have also engaged Niko meaningfully, then, and the discourse would have been more succinct and accurate.

Thank you.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, right? Or, is that the squeaky wheel gets greased? Hehe, I never can tell.

Truthfully, though this WOULD be a nice addition to the game, Command & Staff members, of which the Training Cadre Officer-in-Charge should always be one- need to be mindful of incoming cherries, and make time to train them, to engage them in email and PMs to get them into the game for training.

Yep!

Although also, while I agree with you about Training Officers staying on top of new recruit training, I think that some of the focus here has been on potentially having Community Mentors that can help teach new puggers, not just as a service for Units.

Yeah, I getcha about getting to page three (rats, that's where a lot of my stuff is, lol). Life is super busy right now for me too. Sadly, it looks like I may miss out on the entire winter rewards that PGI is giving away!

[Threat Doc]

Perhaps mentoring PUGs could be used to help find new players for units in CW?

[Nightmare1]

Kay Wolf, on 19 December 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

Perhaps mentoring PUGs could be used to help find new players for units in CW?

That's a possibility.

Overall, I think the big push is for a Mentorship system that both Puggers and Units can use. Right now, Units can organize training drops via Private Lobbies, but lone players are left out in the cold. A system that serves both would make it easier for Units to train new players, while still providing lone pilots the chance to learn the ropes without being forced into a Unit. I know a lot of us prefer Units and feel that it is the way to go, but some players can't commit the time to be a part of one, or are simply leery of joining one.

I can't deny that it would be a good tool for Units to use in scouting new recruits. Frankly, I suspect that most Mentors will be Unit members anyways since Unit pilots seem to be the best at both playing and teaching this game. I don't think that would be an abuse of the system though; rather, I see it as a side perk to taking on the responsibility.

[Scout Derek]

Maybe involve clan customs like bonsmen... dunno, just came off top of my head...

[Uthael]

Here's a reminder from page 1:

Scurry, on 13 October 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

This game really needs a repository of information that is not available in-game.

For example: Ghost heat multiplier, heat ceiling, hitbox locations (seriously, it's kinda ridiculous that we have to find this out ourselves), ammo consumption order, crit mechanics, Gauss rifle mechanics, Ultra-AC5 jamming, minimum range, Lock-on mechanics.

A set of videos explaining the basics of the game would help massively as well, perhaps linked through the launcher.

Also, you know those tips that appear while the match is loading? It would be nice to have them consolidated and displayed in a single location.(...)

This!
The issue ain't about tutoring, it's about keeping players interested in this game.

I've introduced 4 players to this game, trying to play with them and show them around.

One ragequit after 3-4 games without even realizing why did he die. He still wasn't over 3rd person and the arm lock in 1st. Kay Wolf mentioned new players feeling like being thrown in a meatgrinder. Yeap.
Another plays whenever he can. Although we have very different ways of playing every role in the game, we both agree that this game ain't for new players. Especially not ones that aren't introduced to BattleTech lore. He wasn't either, but he had learned from TvTropes or something. No thing BattleTech related comes delivered in a fancy package fitting today's market. Nobody bothers to study it even a bit and many look at giant stomping robots as too expensive, too impractical and scientifically impossible to exist without any magic.
One found the game too complex to enjoy and quit after about a week. He had the same experience many people have with Dwarf Fortress.
The last one is usually playing WoT because he appreciates the timeline and the history behind each tank. Some cinematics would be more than welcome to give insight in some of the BattleTech lore. Check the Supreme Commander serial and the cinematics from that game. That's what I mean. Being able to "Read more" after it hooks you up doesn't hurt, either. Another thing he ain't continuing to actively play MWO is that there's no rewards of any kind for anything except spending money. Maybe a star or a strip added to a mech's paintjob... Maybe an icon rank beside your name. Anything to show off that you've got something to brag about.

Ultimately, what this game will always need is a short single-player campaign on the maps we play in multiplayer. That would be the best of <topic title here>. No matter how hard it might be to implement, it would offer so much of the needed insight to the game.

Now... Remember Starcraft? What does this game NOT have at that one does? Yeap, we need all of that. Short, cheap and easy solutions won't bring as much result as wrapping the game in a nicer package would.

Edited by Uthael, 15 January 2015 - 05:34 AM.

[Threat Doc]

Though I agree that this game needs to be packaged better, that BattleTech lore should be dispensed more effectively, etc., it also needs players who give a damn enough to desire to read it, or view it, or experience it.

My recommendation for dispensing the knowledge of BattleTech is to build short videos, chapters -perhaps this is something NGNG could be challenged to do- representing various stages of the history of BattleTech. I'm talking about the whole of the story, not just the recent time concerning the damn Clans, but give some REAL context to it all. Give players a reason to be here that is not "oooohhhh, big stompy shooty robots, kill, kill, kill". I would be willing to bet that less than 33% of this community have enough knowledge concerning BattleTech to desire putting time into it.

[Mr D One]

Happy to put my hand up to teach a new aspiring Atlas assault pilot.

It is a niche teaching role.

But still happy to help.

I usually have one apprentice but I feel I could teach one more. Plus I reward my apprentices with real life e vouchers, paypal etc

Famous atlas pilots taught the mastery of this assault : Lord Dio, Bloodlink, Mycrus, Pocket Aces, Kid Tijid, and currently Head just to name a few.

[Colonel Fubar]

From what I have seen new players have no problem in speaking up with their questions, and have received quality advice from the community. I don't think a noob label temporary or otherwise is appropriate. New players could be directed to a dedicated volunteer group or (Groups) who could mentor them through any difficulties. Until That Day!

[Nightmare1]

That's literally what this entire thread is about; taking New Player Help to the next level by designing a dedicated Mentorship System manned by MWO veteran pilots who act as volunteers.

As far as labels go, it's just a term. Newb is short for new player/pilot. From what I've seen, that's conventional with most every online game these days.

[Chiron]

So, would you like us to actually name some veterans who've been very helpful?

Otherwise, if you're looking for system, I'd recommend PGI consider a simplified version of the concept used in League of Legend's post-game screen. PGI can add a dropdown button into our post-game screen, where we can recommend people for 1) Good attitude, 2) Team Player, 3) Helpful player. (if this kind of UI is not possible in the match, then maybe the post-game screen can be moved to a UI 2.0 window?)

[Nightmare1]

chiron, on 26 January 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

So, would you like us to actually name some veterans who've been very helpful?

Otherwise, if you're looking for system, I'd recommend PGI consider a simplified version of the concept used in League of Legend's post-game screen. PGI can add a dropdown button into our post-game screen, where we can recommend people for 1) Good attitude, 2) Team Player, 3) Helpful player. (if this kind of UI is not possible in the match, then maybe the post-game screen can be moved to a UI 2.0 window?)

Sure, naming some helpful vets would be one good way of nominating potential Mentors for the program.

I've never played LoL, but what you describe sounds like a good system too, although a bit generic for a true Mentorship System. Maybe it could be adapted to be specific to Mentorship Matches like what have already been described on the thread.

[Chiron]

This system branches out beyond just mentorship and would include sportsmanship, and even includes honoring your opponents, if you wish. But I'm just refering to the actual UI system, as a means to allow players to recognize helpful veterans with a single click, after a match.