270 replies to this topic

[FrontGuard]

Sorry if someone already had this idea... I am at work and cant read to long.

I think the Very Best thing you could do is get them set up with Team Speak and Talk them Live through all the screens and a few games.
In just an hour or less you could help a person very very much if it were live like that.
Each person would have a custom walk through just for them.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

1. There should be no instant ingame reward for being a mentor or trainee. It should be all consensual, and rewarding immediately may lead to exploiting.
3. Any player can be a trainee if he had played for less than 24 hours in total.
4. Players with 100 hours or more can become mentors.
5. There is no limit in mentors and trainees in a game, but both are picked before the match or on the forum. A selected value can be one-time (1 game) for casual players or full-time (6-12 hours) for real-life friends or unit leaders. One-time mentoring will give only a custom forum title to both sides.
6. Both must have voice chat enabled, and it must be built into the game.
7. After 6-12 hours of successful full-time mentoring and training (the time, income, and damage are accrued only during the mentor-training status games), both players may get a cockpit item if the trainee's overall damage and C-Bill income will have been increased on average over time of the training compared to the previous values before the mentorship. All values without a mentor will not come into any equation.
9. The cooldown for mentoring is 1 month. Each mentoring will give different cockpit items (showing the status).
10. In case of a smaller playerbase (a 10-year plan), a difference in 60 hours of playing can lead to the mentor-trainee ability selection.
11. The overall undertaking must not be a big thing. It should be only supplementary.
12. There should be no "observer"-like mentoring, as it must correspond to the feeling of a real Mechwarrior warfield.

Edited by lunticasylum, 05 November 2014 - 01:33 AM.

[Ovion]

That one-month cooldown idea is frankly absurd.
(60 hours would take most people around a month to pull aswell)

What you'll find is there'll be a few people that go in for occasional mentoring and a few people that go in for regular / 'career' mentoring.

Locking out the regulars would massively impact both number of mentors available, and quality of.

I sort of agree there should be something in place to stop quick abuse of it, but something like a small bonus per match in C-Bills / GXP, then a bigger payout each patch day (say MC maybe), combined with a rating system taht allows trainees to rate their mentor, which will affect their rewards.

Obviously Trainees would need to have played under so many games and mentors over so many games, but locking people out of it for a month at a time would kill the system.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

Locking it for a month with the cockpit item. Mentors can always do their job with no prize. GXP/C-Bill bonus is a bad idea. Thr mentoring system should be either nonexistent at all or cosmetic-only in rewards.

[deathmeck]

Other games I have played had some sort of bot game where u play a game vs the pc witch helped my learn how to play my character better in a roll and it also helped me learn what to do with that person with that character what I could and cannot do and found the strong points in the weak points and the computer also played back so they would shoot you so they weren't just stationary but they weren't hard they were there just to practice but also put it like a real match where u get money and exp cause no one want to wast time but I think a bot game agents the pc would be help full to new ppl and help with the learning curve

Edited by deathmeck, 05 November 2014 - 04:20 PM.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

Yup, a single-player game or campaign is the only viable and good option for the Mentorship System solution without making some people feel chagrin.
I, personally, am not sure what problems can there be at all in playing Mechwarrior Online. If I take someone absolutely new to computers, I have to teach him to use the mouse. As soon as he can do that, he can play the game. Look at World of Tanks. Even children play it without any mentors.

If someone does not know how to play, write a manual for him. A manual is enough to understand the basics of the game. Reading is the key. Even scanning over the controls might be enough.
If someone does not want to learn to play or has a short-attention span, then he should not play competitive games. There is no other solution unless one wants veterans or other players to suffer.

Edited by lunticasylum, 06 November 2014 - 12:04 AM.

[p4r4g0n]

Actually I think deathmech was referring to the LoL system where new players can choose to play in a co-op mode with other players against bots before actually venturing out to play vs other players.

[deathmeck]

P4r4g0n is right I play lol and it helped me learn the game maybe phi could implement some thing like that it would help ppl under stand the game and teach co op also and if thay put ppl vrs the pc with some exp ans some credits its not a wast of time built exp and credits a bought hafe what u could get out of a PvP match and make it only trial mech with no upgrades

[Bagor Aga]

In my opinion the problem begins with the fact that mentor is not interested in the role - it takes time, besides, there are obstacles in game design i.e. ELO, K\D... So we should ask ppl who already do couching in MWO what are the drawbacks being mentor. I was on both sides but couldn't talk whole the true.

Hence the second question - how to interest mentor? - Prime time (which could be already on for years), GXP for 1/2 the price of a certain amount, a discount on mechs in MC \ CB (i.e prize for work), a stack of priority artillery imp. coolshoots? ..- list goes on. Here I suppose that Mentor and Padawan 'sign contract', means there are deadline, rules, prize, verification option. Like they will play together 30-50-100 matches, they choose a prize for mentor (with validation by trainee) and set or some tool they like to use. This means that the mentor award may vary in importance, and it depends on the complexity of the problem worked out.
What could be interesting for newbee (or just a guy who enters new community - unit - clan...)?
- try a mech with open elite perks;
- fight against more experienced one;
- watch the whole game from teachers POV (better not in record, not after the dead...)
... could be extended by community.


So we came to obstacles:
- No pure spectator view, except after death. It is impossible to watch without doing minus to teachers team. Playing as a team with much greater ELO generally is not always productive. Participation in game with a mentor has drawbacks for someone almost always - this must be eliminated.
- Try the elite is important to feel real tool, not a parody. Leveling up a mech is 3 weeks for a new player. Trials do not disclose the essence of chassis and type-size for new born. Therefore, wrong choice of mech to start a career can cause loss of courage etc.
- Skirmish 1 vs 1 is a problem of time for more experienced one - he might be just not interested in. Again - the presence of premium on both sites.. even if he is interested in teaching - may not be willing to buy a premium time.
- Current statistic is not useful for progress evaluations.


Hence it comes to more or less obvious suggestions:
- Give the opportunity to play together in rules for the beginner - replace mentors ELO for the term of training contract; provide an opportunity to exchange mechs at the start of battle; allow be only spectator on mentor or make mentor first body in after the death list of current spectator view; enable the mentor to view student mech's config.
- To enable the share premium time between two players (or buy the premium for two, valid as long as we play together); allow to gift 1-3 days to other player. allow the contract sum in MC or CB (with reasonable limitations) as succeeded couching contract.
- Export statistic to csv

Edited by Bagor Aga, 11 November 2014 - 09:49 AM.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

I remember that the first time I played this game back at its beta release, I was really annoyed at the insanely fast progress with the Cadet Bonus handed out immediately, then I was turned out with the double experience daily bonus.
I am a veteran player now; but looking back, excessive rewards really spoiled the experience leading me to the brink of quitting the game.
Too many rewards or rewards for being taught or mentored is a bad thing that should never be included!

[Bagor Aga]

I think there are two different situations we could talk about:
- lone player entered MWO and doing his way to satisfaction even in unit
- player got friend in MWO
reasons to stay, develop character and self evaluation are different if we know we are part of something and somebody looks at us. I should say: developing of Mentor institute is building new community capable for new gaming experience because they will use imagination to form their own world.

[Skribs]

My biggest suggestion would be to lower the learning curve by doing away with mechanics that are needlessly tedious or complex to encourage new players to continue playing, amd/or to make these things more transparent in nature.

The game you see is already complex, but things like quirks, ghost heat, etc. working behind the scenes make it even more.

Look for simpler, more overt ways of decreasing the effects of massive burst, make mech size apparent in the UI, and fix the problems with the UI both in the menus and in the actual game and it will go a long way to helping new players feel welcome.

[DrSlamastika]

What about adding a counter of which class ( light, medium, heavy, assault ) do you play most.


It should be showed in general stats tab in your profile.

Reason: information about your preference between classes.

Edited by DrSlamastika, 15 November 2014 - 07:19 AM.

[Beo Vulf]

There was and is a list of guides put together by long time players, unfortunately from my perspective a lot of players never read them. You see people making the same mistakes over and over again. Those guides are useful tools and if they aren't used than people only have themselves to blame. I am always willing to answer questions even in game in chat, and there are many players that also do this, but when you get asked a question and than have someone tell you your answer is stupid, or ignore what you said you can't help them. The old saying "You can't fix stupid" applies to these people. For the rest ask away if I have an answer I will give it, if not I can point you in the right direction, or others might have the answer. Everyone one of us has been new to this game (MWO) at one point,and did stupid things keep that in mind when someone asks a question in game.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

Skribs, on 14 November 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

My biggest suggestion would be to lower the learning curve by doing away with mechanics that are needlessly tedious or complex to encourage new players to continue playing, amd/or to make these things more transparent in nature.

The game you see is already complex, but things like quirks, ghost heat, etc. working behind the scenes make it even more.

Look for simpler, more overt ways of decreasing the effects of massive burst, make mech size apparent in the UI, and fix the problems with the UI both in the menus and in the actual game and it will go a long way to helping new players feel welcome.

On the contrary, complex things make the game engaging. People are happy to discover something new, work and learn something, as opposed to brainless games out there in the market. The more complexity the game has, the more appealing it to the customer, new or old.
"The learning curve" for each individual is different. Some cannot split the torso and legs in their mind (they have training mode to get to that basic control) and some cannot stand the simplicity of the game (they wait for patches with more depth, diversity, and meaning that can challenge their minds and reactions). And a good manual will always radically help a person with learning.

Fortunately, it is a PVP game. Almost all PVE MMORPGs suffer from the simplicity syndrome: a game is released as challenging and interesting (everyone joins it) and ends up as boring and simple, catering to the instant-gratification generation (veterans leave; only short-attention span 'casual' players are playing it).

Edited by lunticasylum, 16 November 2014 - 07:52 PM.

[Leopardao]

If I had to say for new players the main issue that can be frustrating is what can or cannot be done with available mechs and c-bills and knowing where to spend money and where to hold back. Also knowing what models to aim for and use.

For a Mentor System in game that benefits both the new player and the old player I suggest a sort of hands off approach.

The Mentor would be able to take a battlemech they own and put it up to be 'rented' by new players. This mech would function in the same way as a trial mech in that it could not be modified and all equipment is determined at the time the mech is placed up to be 'rented'. While the mech is being rented the owner does not have access to that mech and any equipment or modules that were equipped on the mech (consumable modules are removed when rented out). The owner also determines a lease period for anyone who rents the mech, 1 day, 1 week or 1 month, this period also determines the benefit the mentor receives for renting the mech out, 5%, 10%, or 20% of c-bills earned during matches is awarded to the owner when the mech is returned.

Limits on renting. Each account has 1 free rental slot and can rent additional mechs using empty mech bay slots. When you accept a rental contract the mech remains with you for the duration, the contract cannot be cancelled early. I also suggest putting in a system to rate mechs and the mentor; the renter could rate how competitive they felt the particular mech variant is, helping generate a live codex for PGI to look to for moding the quirk system, and the renter would rate the mentor player who put the mech up for use, helping other new players by keeping highly rated players at the top of lists and pushing the poorly rated players to the bottom of lists.

If this is done I'd also like to see a sub version of this put into place for the merc companies. But instead of a contract duration the mechs are used while selected and the c-bills go to the company coffer instead of mentor player. This would be useful for company training as new players to a company can begin training with the preferred designs of the company while saving up to purchase there own model.

[Bagor Aga]

Leopardao, on 17 November 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

...take a battlemech they own and put it up to be 'rented' by new players.

not only new players will benefit.
- What if I put my 2 (non prime) DireWolf on rent program _before DW became available for CB?
- What if I put 2 DW _after, and 1000 other's do like me (because we prefer DW in 12-party and no really need 2 variants w\o bonus). This will make obsolete need to buy DW for own use - they'll be always present as rent cars.

I suggest to make it possible to swap for one game mentors and newbee's mechs - limited use, controlled against systematical abuse (if needed). But I see it also affects private purchases.

[tripsangel]

Achievements that reward with titles and/or c-bills by grouping up with a new player? (new player defined as having not completed 25 matchs or a player who just started playing 1-10 days ago? or maybe a month? idk what kind of time to put down)

You already have achievements and being able to see if people you've grouped up with have completed this achieve or have just started playing should be easy to set up....

just a quick thought i had...

[Beo Vulf]

There is a good tool out there for new players that have earned enough c-bills to purchase their first mech. It's called Smurfy.com. Not only are there battlemech builds for every mech submitted by players the community will also answer questions on the smurfy forum. That said first get a trial mech and go into the training grounds shoot up the mechs there. Practice torso twisting, and firing your weapons on the move. Those two things will improve your accuracy in game when you launch. Learn to use cover when you launch into a game, and stay together, don't split up and go off on your own. Leaving your team is just about the biggest cause of players dieing and raging in game.

[Nightmare1]

Beo Vulf, on 18 November 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

There is a good tool out there for new players that have earned enough c-bills to purchase their first mech. It's called Smurfy.com. Not only are there battlemech builds for every mech submitted by players the community will also answer questions on the smurfy forum. That said first get a trial mech and go into the training grounds shoot up the mechs there. Practice torso twisting, and firing your weapons on the move. Those two things will improve your accuracy in game when you launch. Learn to use cover when you launch into a game, and stay together, don't split up and go off on your own. Leaving your team is just about the biggest cause of players dieing and raging in game.

Dude, this isn't a new player thread. This is a thread for veteran players to discuss ways to create a Mentorship System to help new players learn the game. No need to state the obvious here.