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Mentorship Systems - Designs, Ideas And Suggestions


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#81 BloodspatterGaming

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 03:03 AM

View PostAndi Nagasia, on 14 October 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

WHAT THIS GUY SAID ABOUT 1V1


#82 Reported for Inappropriate Name

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 08:39 AM

View PostSadist Cain, on 13 October 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

</p>

I would happily spend every game leading a Lance of epic, however I don't want people to be forced into it.</p>



I've played with you before, you are not leadership material.

and here lays the flaw with your suggestion, no quality control.

#83 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 08:41 AM

personally, i think allowing a private match to start with 1 player on each side,
this currently requires both players to have premium time, a problem i think,

allowing 1vs1 if you will will first off allow people to Duel,
which would make people happy, and second allow for 1on1 mentoring system,
how to stop abuse, and farming, no rewards or achievements are awarded in 1vs1,


if we where allowed free use of 1vs1 matches, we could train in a controlled environment,
a new player could take what he want to better learn, and his friends could take trials,
this would allow the new player to experiment with their mech against a living player,

its hard to introduce some one to MWO when you have them join you in a Group(2),
and you get dropped with 1(6) 1(4) vs 1(8) 1(4), often recruits die early match,
and its hard for them to wait 8+ minutes to jump into another match,

i feel this 1vs1 would be a easy and simplest solution at this time,
allowing new inexperienced players to get a good feel for the game,
learning about speed, heat, & tactics, be for being thrown to the wolves,


Personally, i feel this will allow Players to more easily bring in their friends to play,
letting us teach them the ropes of MechWarrior before they head off on their own,

we could also have NGNG set aside some Training lobby's and Training rooms,
so new players can jump in with others and talk and train in private sessions,


so all in all, allow for private 1v1 matched to be played with out Premium time,
Solaris Style matches(check), New Players Mentored by Friends easier(Check),
down sides to this(None), how to stop Abuse(no match Rewards), Solution(Found),

#84 Sadist Cain

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 08:17 AM

View PostBattlecruiser, on 17 October 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

I've played with you before, you are not leadership material.

and here lays the flaw with your suggestion, no quality control.


Tis a lovely anecdote that you share there and I'll be sure to remind the next camp I lead that I'm "not leadership material" because some dude I have no recollection of played a round of mwo and with me said so.

Having any leader is better than none, I'd say it's more small minded players who'll make snap judgements off of a singular experience that's the problem ;)

Quality Control, as you said, is the problem

#85 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 10:06 AM

View PostSadist Cain, on 19 October 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

Tis a lovely anecdote that you share there and I'll be sure to remind the next camp I lead that I'm "not leadership material" because some dude I have no recollection of played a round of mwo and with me said so.

Having any leader is better than none, I'd say it's more small minded players who'll make snap judgements off of a singular experience that's the problem


id have to agree, who is to say what makes a leader,
personally my K/D is 0.2, i average 8Assists and 800Exp a match and many matches i die,

why you may ask? many times i get 90% of my weapons blown off, arms torso ect,
and id rather run up and take the hit(and die) for for my teams Atlas/DireWolf,
just to be sure my assaults can keep firing even if its just for a bit longer,

i put the teams success above my own, its not about getting kills or K/D,
its about the team, and if my team winning gives me my 0.2 K/D, ill be happy,

#86 Sadist Cain

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 01:49 PM

View PostAndi Nagasia, on 19 October 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:


id have to agree, who is to say what makes a leader,
personally my K/D is 0.2, i average 8Assists and 800Exp a match and many matches i die,

why you may ask? many times i get 90% of my weapons blown off, arms torso ect,
and id rather run up and take the hit(and die) for for my teams Atlas/DireWolf,
just to be sure my assaults can keep firing even if its just for a bit longer,

i put the teams success above my own, its not about getting kills or K/D,
its about the team, and if my team winning gives me my 0.2 K/D, ill be happy,



You'd sound like a good one to be honest.

The only worry is not so much who decides who gets to be a leader, look at it now, anyone can and no one does (mostly because the systems for it are crap).

Look at a game like NS2 which relys more heavily on the leadership mechanic as a team based rather than a squad based system.
The problem in that game isn't choosing a leader its much more a problem with more "experienced" players ridiculing anyone who takes the hotseat, resulting in a game of hot potato before most rounds. Folk will always talk the talk and be too afraid to walk the walk.

If you build a game properly around being team based there's never a problem with who's going to lead lance and if you don't wanna be lead, then just don't be in that lance, play with the rest of the lone wolfs.

Some lances will be convinced that charging to Theta whilst outnumbered on Tourmaline is a good idea in a game of conquest, the assaults will do the capping after all...
You'll get light wolfpacks who wont even think about capping, die with 400 damage and wonder why we lost.
And you'll of course get the priceless "zermagawd stick togevvaaaa!!!" in team chat as the whole team is getting annihilated by a pincer move in open space from a team that is... not, "sticking together" ergo, surrounding the blob of destiny.

Some lances work out well, some don't, Read: Life.
None of that means that a newbie in the lance won't be learning something and that more experienced players will too have a higher quality of game.
Learn how to do things, learn how not to do them too, it's all learning.

#87 Danghen Woolf

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 08:57 AM

Mentorship is a great way to help new players. I have looked to the wisdom and experience of several of the players you mentioned and have found that 99% of the time their input was well thought out and did not seem influenced by the current rabbling going on with each OP flavor of the week.

One of the things that I think would help is to have each new player locked into a Rookie "Unit" until they complete their Cadet Bonus, just like on the forums where you cannot post in certain areas until you have done the same. This Unit would have a unit chat and would be moderated by either volunteers vetted by forum content managers or by paragons of appropriate behavior. EVE Online has a system similar to this with the chat channels that are moderated by players who apply and are accepted based on their professionalism and knowledge. It would limit new players from joining a player run unit initially but could help new players from becoming frustrated with the learning curve of the game. Additionally this unit would be able to launch unranked private matches with the stipulation that one moderator must be involved in the launch in either spectator mode or in a mech, maybe even limit these to a 2v2 or 4v4. This would give new players the opportunity to learn mechanics of the game without having to be thrown right into the mix. Opponents could even be other new players waiting to queue in and drop with the moderator. As this mode would only be available to new players it should reduce griefing of newer players. An additional responsibility of the moderators would be to monitor player interactions and submit any issues to the command staff for further review. e.g. Evil Player 1 decides to create an alt account to grief new players in the Rookie queue. Moderator witnesses griefing in the private match or in the chat and submits a report of the players actions to PGI for further review. PGI can then take action on Evil Player 1.

Just my ideas.

#88 Redshift2k5

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 01:16 PM

View PostDanghen Woolf, on 20 October 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:


One of the things that I think would help is to have each new player locked into a Rookie "Unit" until they complete their Cadet Bonus, just like on the forums where you cannot post in certain areas until you have done the same. This Unit would have a unit chat and would be moderated by either volunteers vetted by forum content managers or by paragons of appropriate behavior.


The problem with Unit system is, I would have to either: 1) leave my unit forever to sit on the rookie unit channel, or 2) be able to use more than one unit channel.

A separate chat system with actual channels would be so much better than shoehorning them into a unit. I would think that much of the work put into the unit chat could support a series of global chats.

#89 Lily from animove

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 01:28 PM

Well, dropping together as two in the training ground would help.

also spectator mode, so that the trainee can "join" his mentors game purely as spectator (inside the mech), not as match participant.
Also the same the other way around so that the mentor can see what his trainees match (inside the mech) and give him advices while or after the match. Because without knowing what the other did its hard to speak about that and what went right and wrong.

rework the chatsystem. we can currently NOT copy and paste from our clipboards to the game and the other way around. so building mechs together can not be done within the game it needs to be done via an extra communication outside the game. Steam chat, skype whatever. Thats a bit of an annyoing way to talk about builds and such.


Mechwarrior Aacademy:
Like a bigger training ground, like private matches, But offering maybe 2-4 mentors with free cam mode and 2-24 participants. Such a mode could work for general training of units observing what their guys are doing and how. It would of course also allow lowies and newbies to get trained and observed by mentors form a more tactical overview than just the mech.

bonus goodie: a trainee can use a mech a mentor already has in his mechlab, this helps very new players to train stuff he can not test by his own ressources due to lack of C-bills.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 October 2014 - 01:29 PM.


#90 Danghen Woolf

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 02:24 PM

View PostRedshift2k5, on 20 October 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:


The problem with Unit system is, I would have to either: 1) leave my unit forever to sit on the rookie unit channel, or 2) be able to use more than one unit channel.

A separate chat system with actual channels would be so much better than shoehorning them into a unit. I would think that much of the work put into the unit chat could support a series of global chats.


Thanks for the input.

I think that the moderator/rookie unit can be almost like a hidden variable on each account. Maybe setting it as a yes/no setting on the admin side similar to the forum locking. Doing this with the existing framework would allow moderators to be in a player run House/Clan as well as the moderated unit chat.

I agree that a separate chat system aside from the Unit chat would be helpful but just like the forums, as well as what I see in every other game with an open chat system, rampant with people abusing the chat. We would still need moderators for an open chat system and the numbers of people in there would be significantly more than in a rookie only chat subset.

#91 Barkem Squirrel

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:18 PM

One problem I found out was when teaming up with a new player there is the issue of bringing a lamb to the wolf's den.
I think one of the comments I got was "why are they all shooting at you and not me." The moments before they started to all shoot at him after I was down. Since then I have wanted to have three people at least helping a new player just so that they can survive longer and learn. Still I think 25 games is too short and 100 may be a better number for determining what is a new player. Sometimes they may be a fish to water, but this game does take time to just learn how to walk even before you shoot.

Could the mentor and new player drop into the PUG query? (we know it may through the matches to a point, but for the new player experience.)

Could we get two man teams to drop on the training grounds for instruction?

Could there be a notice for players under 25 games for links to 3rd party voice communication systems? (work with those sites)

Using the same thought, a notice in game that there is a group of players that are approved mentors to group up with and a way to team up with them at certain times? (this may take programer resources)

#92 Reported for Inappropriate Name

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 04:18 PM

View PostSadist Cain, on 19 October 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:


Tis a lovely anecdote that you share there and I'll be sure to remind the next camp I lead that I'm "not leadership material" because some dude I have no recollection of played a round of mwo and with me said so.
Having any leader is better than none, I'd say it's more small minded players who'll make snap judgements off of a singular experience that's the problem ;)
Quality Control, as you said, is the problem
you're implying a leader can be someone who just appoints themselves. While this may work in reality through an auxiliary use of force to provoke fear and cooperation, or due to taking advantage of the fear of others, this does not work in a team setting. if people do not respect you or recognize qualities about yourself that makes you a competent and skilled leader, they will not follow.and the reason you are a bad leader is because I've watched you try, and both times it ended in failure. you are not leadership material because you are egotistical and stupid, both evidenced by your circle jerk in the thread as well as what I've seen you do in game.

#93 Sadist Cain

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 10:51 PM

View PostBattlecruiser, on 20 October 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

you're implying a leader can be someone who just appoints themselves. While this may work in reality through an auxiliary use of force to provoke fear and cooperation, or due to taking advantage of the fear of others, this does not work in a team setting. if people do not respect you or recognize qualities about yourself that makes you a competent and skilled leader, they will not follow.and the reason you are a bad leader is because I've watched you try, and both times it ended in failure. you are not leadership material because you are egotistical and stupid, both evidenced by your circle jerk in the thread as well as what I've seen you do in game.


Sorry bud, the only egotistical stupidity here is your own.

Unusually you've seen me lead twice? When I've touched the command button maybe once in the past 10 months?
Mayhaps you saw me typing some thoughts in the chat but i can promise you that you've not once seen me leading because the way the game is currently structured makes it impossible and not really worth bothering with.

Also opening with a personal attack on someone based on what exactly?

Leave people be, if there's folk who wanna squad up and work together what's it really got to do with you? and who are you to stand there and say what is effectively "I'm butthurt and mad at you so I don't like what you say cos I saw you in a game this one time"?

Ultimately, you remember me trying. I don't remember you doing anything of any significance. what do you do again...?

I think that's plain to see actually, nevermind.

sorry bub, but your personal vendetta doesn't invalidate the fact that teamwork needs more organising in pugs and smaller group games to be able to stand up against larger groups in CW.
You can do this with a lot of wasted time and effort into a convoluted Mentor scheme that by it's nature has a short lifespan and cannot achieve a high level of consitency.
Or you can enhance your existing mechanics that are being worked on to enhance both the new player experience and teamwork alike to create a more open atmosphere to mentoring those who wish to be lead.

Saving on dev time,
Not relying on third partys within the community so much,
Providing a higher level of infrastructure within games to promote teamwork,
Would you like to have more legitimate reasons or would you prefer I just say that you're a self righteous moron and fling some mud?
If you're so short sighted that you can't see past the one posting that fact and need to resort to getting personal to make your point seem more valid, pity and not a little bit pathetic.

Edited by Sadist Cain, 20 October 2014 - 10:58 PM.


#94 Nightmare1

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 04:26 PM

View PostBattlecruiser, on 20 October 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

you're implying a leader can be someone who just appoints themselves. While this may work in reality through an auxiliary use of force to provoke fear and cooperation, or due to taking advantage of the fear of others, this does not work in a team setting. if people do not respect you or recognize qualities about yourself that makes you a competent and skilled leader, they will not follow.and the reason you are a bad leader is because I've watched you try, and both times it ended in failure. you are not leadership material because you are egotistical and stupid, both evidenced by your circle jerk in the thread as well as what I've seen you do in game.

View PostSadist Cain, on 20 October 2014 - 10:51 PM, said:


Sorry bud, the only egotistical stupidity here is your own.

Unusually you've seen me lead twice? When I've touched the command button maybe once in the past 10 months?
Mayhaps you saw me typing some thoughts in the chat but i can promise you that you've not once seen me leading because the way the game is currently structured makes it impossible and not really worth bothering with.

Also opening with a personal attack on someone based on what exactly?

Leave people be, if there's folk who wanna squad up and work together what's it really got to do with you? and who are you to stand there and say what is effectively "I'm butthurt and mad at you so I don't like what you say cos I saw you in a game this one time"?

Ultimately, you remember me trying. I don't remember you doing anything of any significance. what do you do again...?

I think that's plain to see actually, nevermind.

sorry bub, but your personal vendetta doesn't invalidate the fact that teamwork needs more organising in pugs and smaller group games to be able to stand up against larger groups in CW.
You can do this with a lot of wasted time and effort into a convoluted Mentor scheme that by it's nature has a short lifespan and cannot achieve a high level of consitency.
Or you can enhance your existing mechanics that are being worked on to enhance both the new player experience and teamwork alike to create a more open atmosphere to mentoring those who wish to be lead.

Saving on dev time,
Not relying on third partys within the community so much,
Providing a higher level of infrastructure within games to promote teamwork,
Would you like to have more legitimate reasons or would you prefer I just say that you're a self righteous moron and fling some mud?
If you're so short sighted that you can't see past the one posting that fact and need to resort to getting personal to make your point seem more valid, pity and not a little bit pathetic.


...Aaaaand there goes the thread. How about you two take it outside, 'kay?
.
.
.
To get back on track, I would like to see an update about the Mentorship Program in the next Dev Vlog. Any chance on that?

Overall, I would like to again highlight the idea of Mentor Tags and Privileges for qualifying pilots. This would go beyond simply assuming command in a fight and leading a lance, and be focused more on one-on-one or group training interaction on the Testing Grounds. I would like to see Mentors given the ability to initiate Private Matches with full options so that their Mentees can participate if they lack Premium Time. To prevent abuse, Mentors might only be given a set number of Private Matches they can initiate in this manner each month. This would prevent someone from becoming a Mentor to get around the MC requirement for full-option private matches.

An in-game voice system would go a long ways towards helping improve the quality of gameplay and towards facilitating a Mentorship Program. Any ETA on that?

For more/greater details and suggestions from me, see post 63 on Page 4 of this thread.

#95 Reported for Inappropriate Name

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 01:16 AM

what do I do you ask? When I want to build a bridge I build a bridge, not for the people that are going to use it but to show my absolute dominance over my habitat. Whether or not they use it doesn't matter because I've already won.</p>

you talk about teamwork with strangers? there is no such thing unless the teamwork framework is already installed upon them, a risk not worth taking with strangers.  No, when you want to point the direction of history with a group of faceless individuals you get in front hold the torch high and walk the path alone so those smart enough to look for the light can follow.</p>


Posted Image

there are many games like this (not like it is difficult in the daishi), I'd post some from today but they were in organized drops hence real teammates not strangers, but I digress.</p>

A mentor system is not some form of leadership, it's not some position of power where  you say and they do because its an order. A mentor is a gardener of sorts, providing the environment and guidance necessary for little sprouts to grow strong under their own power, and in mwo the best way to do this is to take a back seat in the cockpit, not to backseat drive, but to direct and encourage, preferably voice to voice and not with text. text is too impersonal. Besides that looking at random games like some kind of team exercise when you're solo dropping is pretty ******** anyways.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 23 October 2014 - 01:19 AM.


#96 MadLibrarian

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 09:36 AM

Rewards are nice for the players doing mentoring, but it's the equivalent to actually paying people for stuff that benefits them anyway.

I think units should probably handle the real mentorship.

Good in game tutorials and maybe minor game modes for training could help a lot. Here are some thoughts.

Time trial killing sprees on each map in testing grounds is one you can currently do, but it's outside the game, and requires recording. (How long does it take you to kill all 8 mechs in Forest colony in a spider?)

Another would be chasing a light mech around various hiding spots in a map, in a slower mech. Find it and it takes off running again until you kill it (and another spawns).

Torso twisting could be trainable with a couple auto firing enemies in a circle/semi-circle and your legs being static, trying to survive as long as possible.

I have other ideas written down somewhere that are mostly lance based I think, but you already get my point.

Edited by MadLibrarian, 27 October 2014 - 09:38 AM.


#97 Metus regem

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 10:22 AM

View PostNikolai Lubkiewicz, on 13 October 2014 - 01:18 AM, said:

Hey all,

I wanted to take the opportunity to raise a suggestions thread for a Mentorship system based around the game. I have often found that, since we are a team-based game: The guidance of a veteran player has frequently provided more of a direct benefit to new players than other systems, such as our tutorials and training grounds.

Try to keep in mind that some ideas may be easier to accomplish than others.
The more an idea may require of an engineer, designer, artist or other developers to accomplish and put into action, the more time it may invariably take to accomplish.

As such, any ideas which are readily achieved through tools already at our disposal such as the forums, account manager, and in-game with the present features would be equally if not more valuable here!

The first thing I can think of is dropping some bonus premium time to some of those who have stood as paragons of mentorship thus far in the New Player Help forum. Koniving and Redshift2k5 are the first on my list, feel free to nominate others for me to review. :)


When I can get time to post in the training grounds, i try to be as helpful as I can to new players, being a recently new pilot myself, I know how tough it can be.

In game when I see a mech with (c) on it, I try to stick to them like glue, and find out if they are new. If they are new, I do everything I can to help them live through the match... often getting killed for it.

#98 Darkblood

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 12:43 PM

I guess something similar was suggested above, but I´ll try to make it simpler: make it so you can launch private matches with less than 24 people (custom matches) without premium time, with the condition that all players but one (per team maybe) are NOOBs (Newcomers On Ongoing Bonus – I mean cadet bonus, and yes, I´m proud of what I just did).

--- that´s basically it, but I´ll elaborate below ---

That way the instructor could suicide right at the start and spectate/coach the other players for as long as the clock allows, and would give the NOOBs some guided sandbox time before they jump into that 25th match (which ends their cadet bonus time). This is almost zero programming time for you guys (just adding another condition for allowing custom matches to be launched). It is a cheap alternative to a real coaching camera – plus the coach could decide to not suicide and do other kinds of exercises (now you guys will all go against ME, in my fully leveled Direwolf, bwahahahaha). I don´t think people need a lot of incentive to be the coaches (maybe you could create achievements for dropping in matches like these, with very minor prizes), most units are on the lookout for new players and already do this with the current private match system. It is just that the premium time requirement hampers it a lot, specially on smaller units or just the individual trying to get his real life friends into this game (even if he has premium, he still needs to find some other charitable soul WITH premium and PATIENCE to be around wasting premium time on training noobs).

I fully understand that sub-24 player matches put extra load on your servers, but the prospect of getting fresh blood in and making it an easier run through the start of the learning curve should outweigh that (look on how well this works in DOTA 2). If you really need to curb it a bit, make it so just one guy needs premium time for these training sessions instead of two (as long as everyone else is a NOOB).

As for abusing: people could keep alternate accounts which never went over those 25 matches just to keep playing private. But considering they would have to restrict themselves to one or two unleveled, un-moduled, mechs + trials, they would get bored in one or two months… I don´t see it becoming popular enough to be an issue. The suggestion below by Nightmare could also lessen abuse a lot:

View PostNightmare1, on 21 October 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

Mentors might only be given a set number of Private Matches they can initiate in this manner each month. This would prevent someone from becoming a Mentor to get around the MC requirement for full-option private matches.

Edited by Darkblood, 27 October 2014 - 12:57 PM.


#99 p4r4g0n

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 06:06 PM

Metus Regem's post sparked a thought -

How about putting an indicator beside the name of a player that has played less than 100 matches visible only to team mates so they can choose to help the player in-game or adjust their play accordingly? This could be removed by the player concerned by turning it off in settings if they are experienced players using alt accounts.

As to rewards, possibly tweak the in-game rewards to offer small bonuses for assisting, protecting or staying in proximity of the new player?

Edited by p4r4g0n, 27 October 2014 - 06:08 PM.


#100 TheLuc

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:38 AM

i might add to sell unique or reward mechs would be a big plus , the battletech franchise is very popular because of the power of choosing what you like





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