62 replies to this topic

[Herr Vorragend]

...endo.

It´s incredible, how bad a mech can be with 70 tons AND fixed JJs.
The CTF-3D is of the same tonnage and I personally get rid of all those JJ to build up a decent mech.

[Torgun]

Summoner is an IS mech in disguise as it has fewer hardpoints than most other Clans while still being forced to have fixed gear/engine and no Endo so lack of free tonnage too. Suckoner is pretty apt.

[Riverboat Sam]

And yet...I've see stream casts recently where top tier players have taken a Summoner to battle and cleaned up with it. I saw a guy that put a gauss rifle and an ERPPC (nothing else) on a summoner and got 5 kills and almost 1,500 damage. He really used the heck out of the JJ's to outmaneuver the enemy mechs. Pretty humbling since I've been of the opinion that Summoners are awful.

[Torgun]

Riverboat Sam, on 28 October 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

And yet...I've see stream casts recently where top tier players have taken a Summoner to battle and cleaned up with it. I saw a guy that put a gauss rifle and an ERPPC (nothing else) on a summoner and got 5 kills and almost 1,500 damage. He really used the heck out of the JJ's to outmaneuver the enemy mechs. Pretty humbling since I've been of the opinion that Summoners are awful.

It's the old Locust argument though. There's this one guy that did great in a Locust, so it's actually a pretty good mech. The only correct answer to that is no.

[Sirius Drake]

Oh the summoner IS a good mech.
It's just damned hard to master.
I can't play it but i know a few guys that can dash out 1000+ dmg with it constantly.

[Torgun]

Sirius Drake, on 28 October 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

Oh the summoner IS a good mech.
It's just damned hard to master.
I can't play it but i know a few guys that can dash out 1000+ dmg with it constantly.

I bet the same guys could do even better in a Timberwolf while getting up to date on facebook on their mobile at the same time.

The point is not whether you can do well in a mech if you work your arse off for it. It's how the mech compares to others out there in how hard it is to make anything good out if it.

Edited by Torgun, 28 October 2014 - 07:32 AM.

[The Boz]

Summoner is the only Clan mech that isn't overpowered or obviously weaker than IS counterparts. No wonder people cry about it.

[Mcgral18]

The Boz, on 28 October 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

Summoner is the only Clan mech that isn't overpowered or obviously weaker than IS counterparts. No wonder people cry about it.

Badder, Cute Fox, NopeVa, PeaceDove.

There, 5 out of 9.

There'll be another 3 coming.

[StrikerSW]

Key to using the Summoner is all about positioning and using the jump jets to get into good firing positions and then out of trouble. Its a hit and run or support mech, use it this way and it does great.

[KraftySOT]

The only thing the summoner has going for it is that losing an arm doesnt take away half its firepower like every other clanmech.

Itll still have the torso wep and another arm wep that are both potent. As opposed to a Timby or Direwolf who loses an arm and is half a man from that point on.

[FupDup]

So far the only Suckoner loadout that I truly fear is 5 SRM6, which says more about the potency of Clan SRMs than it does about the Suckoner itself. Take away that build and suddenly the mech doesn't seem quite so powerful...

[Sirius Drake]

Torgun, on 28 October 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:

I bet the same guys could do even better in a Timberwolf while getting up to date on facebook on their mobile at the same time.

The point is not whether you can do well in a mech if you work your arse off for it. It's how the mech compares to others out there in how hard it is to make anything good out if it.

Yeah good point.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 28 October 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

So far the only Suckoner loadout that I truly fear is 5 SRM6, which says more about the potency of Clan SRMs than it does about the Suckoner itself. Take away that build and suddenly the mech doesn't seem quite so powerful...

But, hey, it's not like there's a Clam light mech that mounts that much firepower...until 3058.

19 tons, compared to the Suckonners 21. Admittedly, not as many missile hardpoints. But 4 E hardpoints, on a single arm instead of two. And a head laser. And a ballistic arm.

[Lightfoot]

Herr Vorragend, on 28 October 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

...endo.

It´s incredible, how bad a mech can be with 70 tons AND fixed JJs.
The CTF-3D is of the same tonnage and I personally get rid of all those JJ to build up a decent mech.

QFT

....but PGI wants the Clan tech to have a Closed Mechlab except for the Omni-pods. However, this is why the Jump Jets have to be optional to be fair to the purchasers. It leaves the Summoner with 20 tons of payload space like an Inner Sphere 45 tonner, that's no balance at all unless you give the Summoner the perks of a 45-55 tonner, which they can't.

Anyway, no more Clan Paks for me until the fixed Jump-Jet requirement is removed. I'll buy them with C-Bills if they are worth it until then. Reason is you just can't estimate the viability of these Clan mechs before you see how they get nerfed which seems to have no rhyme or reason as far as actual balancing is concerned.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

The raven pilots say they need
The jenner pilots say they need
The Atl pilots say they need
the DW pilots say they need
the xyz pilots say they need

[KamikazeRat]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 28 October 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

The raven pilots say they need
The jenner pilots say they need
The Atl pilots say they need
the DW pilots say they need
the xyz pilots say they need

it is a bit formulaic isnt it?

when i first picked up the summoner, i did fine in it(not exceptional, but fine).... you just have to treat it like a summoner.. you can't pretend you're in a timberwolf, it's a highly mobile direct fire support heavy, you can't expect it to tank and brawl. get behind the brawlers and get good shots at weak-points with ppc/gauss/ac/whatever, use the JJs to line up those good shots while someone else draws their attention...JJs are stuck on there, might as well use em to their full effect.

will it ever be a comp. players go to mech...lolno...but saying its bad is exaggeration. same with the others. i don't think we have any "bad" mechs, just ones that aren't currently the ultra-comp meta, so they must be bad. BS...i don't buy that crap.

Edited by KamikazeRat, 28 October 2014 - 08:30 AM.

[Mcgral18]

KamikazeRat, on 28 October 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

it is a bit formulaic isnt it?

when i first picked up the summoner, i did fine in it(not exceptional, but fine).... you just have to treat it like a summoner.. you can't pretend you're in a timberwolf, it's a highly mobile direct fire support heavy, you can't expect it to tank and brawl. get behind the brawlers and get good shots at weak-points with ppc/gauss/ac/whatever, use the JJs to line up those good shots while someone else draws their attention...JJs are stuck on there, might as well use em to their full effect.

will it ever be a comp. players go to mech...lolno...but saying its bad is exaggeration. same with the others. i don't think we have any "bad" mechs, just ones that aren't currently the ultra-comp meta, so they must be bad. BS...i don't buy that crap.

It is a 70 ton Medium; that's how you have to play it.

You could take a true Medium, which will be what happens in CW, where tonnage is limited.

[DasaDevil]

I ran a two ERLL / Gauss Rifle build yesterday, and while I wasn't the best brawler in the world I found that this particular build kicks alot of ass. I was posting 500+ damage a game, with 4-5 kills. It worked out real well for me when I played the angles and abused the **** out of the fact that you dont have to expose hardly any of the right side of your mech to get shots off. It was pretty brutal, especially since I could access all these wonderful angles I was not able to before.


Really, If I could max out the armor on the mech it would be severely epic.

[The Boz]

Mcgral18, on 28 October 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

Badder, Cute Fox, NopeVa, PeaceDove.

There, 5 out of 9.

There'll be another 3 coming.

Well, see, apart from the Cute Fox, those are just objectively worse than IS counterparts.
Take a look at the scoreboard from the weekend championship. Summoner is above average.

[Mad Ox]

As one of the oldest Omni mechs history wise can understand it not using endo. Though adding just endo makes it a whole different beast. One of the first things I did in battle tech back in day was reconfig it add to add Endo basically allowed me to max armor which made it a much tougher mech. Same thing with Loki both had just rediculously low armor.

Its omnipods are very limited would be nice to see a few more options but all in all its a much more focused mech and can really bring some hurt. Started out very un-happy with it but now that I got it skilled up finding it to be very fun mech to play.

But Endo isn't historical so no endo of course with as expensive and painful to make as Endo is really don't think IS should have as upgrade option either but thats another argument entirely.

It makes it stand out and makes it different Be easy to cookie cutter all mechs into a specific mold but what fun is that really, ends up being why even have other mechs.

but in the end each variant people have found many ways to make work for them so is it really all that bad naaa just takes a bit more work then slapping a Silly Wolf together.