49 replies to this topic

[Veritae]

Ego dictates that I try to name this after myself. I'm only giving the basic framework here. Depending on the size of your group on comms, whether you have multiple solos, etc will determine some of the tactical decisions, of course.

Most CW attack strategies will naturally consist of four phases, loosely, 1 for each drop wave. The obvious but crucial point is that you're not trying to kill defenders.

Repeat: YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO KILL DEFENDERS!

You are trying to drop the generator that powers the base defense gauss. Always keep this in mind. An attacking force can go 48-0 and still lose, or go 0-47 and still win. This maneuver encourages the latter.

Phase 1: Open 1-2 gates, kill turrets on attack vector, designate priority enemy targets, (if any).

Depending on the map, you will focus on 1-2 gates. Boreal requires only 1, your tactical choice. Sulfur requires 2, left and right gates. DO NOT OPEN THE CENTRAL GATE ON SULFUR.

Depending on the map, coordinate your team to focus on a specific gate or split to assault the two side gates on sulfuric. For this wave, you want range damage, and minimal assault mechs. Get in position, take out turrets and open the gate(s) as quickly as possible. Scout/con enemy mechs and take note of type of defense chassis and their relative position.

Note: Assault mechs in this phase do not engage. Simply position near gates to push in Phase two.

Once gates are open, and mechs are scouted, begin taking out turrets on your way towards the gun. Charge them and fire at nothing but turrets. Die, respawn and meet at the open gate. Once all 12 are at the open gate(s), begin Phase 2.

Phase 2: Maim/cripple defending mechs, clear a turret-free path to the generator.

This one is pretty simple. Prioritize fire on any turrets and push towards them to get them to activate for easier kills. Target prioritized defenders from Phase 1. DO NOT TARGET CT! The goal is to remove limbs and side torsi. Slow them down, minimize their combat effectiveness and hence their ability to stop Phase 3.

Phase 3: Charge the generator.

By now, they probably know what you're up to. If not, they are all patting themselves on the back for surviving that rush by a bunch of idiots. If so, they should all be ejecting for fresh mechs.

Once your Phase 2 mech is dead, you should be in your fastest highest alpha mech. Jenner Fs or non Ember FS9s will work great. Streak to the generator. Ignore all enemies. Ignore turrets remaining. Kill the generator. You should win in Phase 3. If not, proceed to Phase 4.

Phase 4: Storm the generator with speed and armor.

If you failed in Phase 3, it's probably because the OpFor had too many healthy mechs focusing fire. The generator should be in rough shape. This time, bring a fast/tanky mech to finish it off. Cicadas or Centurions/Shawks would be great here. Finish off the Gauss. Do your victory dance.

Thoughts?

[Lily from animove]

seems like nonsense,

you sacrifice a whole wave to open a gate and take out SOME turrets.

Then you cripple mechs that are between you and your objective, meaning they still can fire back. quite well. And no matter of they smell your tacics, they gonna anyways eject to get a mech in shape. your second wave is gone, while they have just entered their second wave.

You can entirely reduce your approach to phase one and phase 4:

split your team to 2 groups of lights with JJ's and 13o+ kph. rush the gates shoot the generators (which with long distance weapons is supereasy causing nearly no losses, if any at all)

Then you rush thx to high speed and hitreg to the generator and destroy it. if it fials, grab second wave lights and repeat.

the third

than fourth. No generator will survive this probably in the first wave. but four is more than enough than you need.


but I would rather more call this an exploit than a true tactic.

Lets call the tactic: "Hive attack" where a swarm just enters the hive kills the queen and done.

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 December 2014 - 07:31 AM.

[Veritae]

The point is that you can win in Phase 1-2 against a weak OpFor. You're not dying to turrets in the opening, you're spending mechs to set up an ideal Phase 2. Phase 3 begins as soon as the first Phase 2 mech dies and respawns, so it becomes a continous rush. It's about optimizing conditions for the rush to succeed as soon as possible.

Edited by Veritae, 12 December 2014 - 07:37 AM.

[Veritae]

Also, Lily, part of the point is that seeing 12 lights swarming immediately will cause the defenders to react in specific patterns right away. Phase 1 results can look like any bumbling pug force. You want them over confident for when the rush begins.

[Lily from animove]

Veritae, on 12 December 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

Also, Lily, part of the point is that seeing 12 lights swarming immediately will cause the defenders to react in specific patterns right away. Phase 1 results can look like any bumbling pug force. You want them over confident for when the rush begins.

12 lights in phase one will overhelm the opponent with speed and not let them time, becuse syou come from two directions anyways.

[Katotonic]

Wow, people thinking beyond the normal... Lets kill a gate, then lets kill the mechs, then lets kill the objective. (which does not work as the attacker)

Even if you dispute the "how" at least it is better than most pug attack groups!

Edited by Katotonic, 12 December 2014 - 07:57 AM.

[Augustus Martelus II]

still....kill...kill...kill

[Widowmaker1981]

personally, i think this tactic - rushing with lights (abusing hitreg issues that make them way tankier than they should be) should be prevented, the attackers should have to take and hold a very small hard to get to area for a certain amount of time to kill the gen - i.e. put 3 walls and a roof around the target objective, with a narrow field of fire for shooting at the target.. that way to get damage on it said lights will have to stand still (i.e. die if there are defenders) and you cannot use arty of airstrikes on it due to the roof.

Taking the base should be about defeating the defending force, not lol zerging with lights.

[John1352]

Finally some discussion of tactics rather than "attacking/defending is impossible pgi fix"
With that said though, both of the times I have seen attackers win, it was by attrition. PUGs struggle to coordinate rushes.

[Bigbacon]

Widowmaker1981, on 12 December 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

i.e. put 3 walls and a roof around the target objective, with a narrow field of fire for shooting at the target.. that way to get damage on it said lights will have to stand still (i.e. die if there are defenders) and you cannot use arty of airstrikes on it due to the roof.

this is what popped in my head when I read this. Wonder if they oculd be vbreakable?

[Veritae]

Respectfully, Widowmaker, this thread is not intended as a feature suggestion on how we would like CW to change. It's about addressing the very real fact that defenders have an advantage if you play Invasion like a skirmish match.

I may or may not agree with you, but this is the way the game mode works today.

John, I agree that right now, attackers are mainly winning through attrition in a Skirmish mindset. I think that can/will change.

Just trying to start the discussion.

[HlynkaCG]

Veritae, on 12 December 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

Ego dictates that I try to name this after myself. I'm only giving the basic framework here. Depending on the size of your group on comms, whether you have multiple solos, etc will determine some of the tactical decisions, of course.

Most CW attack strategies will naturally consist of four phases, loosely, 1 for each drop wave. The obvious but crucial point is that you're not trying to kill defenders.

Repeat: YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO KILL DEFENDERS!

The enemy's gate is "down".

[Veritae]

Took me a sec to get the Ender Reference. :::tips hat:::

[HlynkaCG]

I've played six full matches at this point and seen two successful attacks. Both followed the same basic format...

• Early Snipe/LRM War until the gates go down. Some trades back and forth, 1 or two kills, several defenders damaged.
  
• Attackers hit one of the gates in a mass, usually catching defenders in a 8 v 12 type scenario. They steam-roll the defenders at that point and clear out most of the base defenses, before being forced back.
  
• Attackers regroup and attack the generator as a group. Unless the Defenders work fast the generator will go down and the attackers win.

ETA:
If the Defenders manage to repulse the attacker's main push, the fight turns into a attrition battle which favors the defenders who can just sit in their own drop zone, protected by turrets and drop-ships, and snipe at any one who tries to push on the generator.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 12 December 2014 - 08:40 AM.

[Lily from animove]

I wonder if a group of JJ's only can cross the hills and sneak to the bakc by not using the gates at all. Surely not a tactic for pugs, but maybe different than skirmishing all day.

[Veritae]

I agree Hlynka. That is why rather than roll the dice with the original push to see if the attackers are more coordinated than the defenders, my proposal postpones the push and attempts to maximize all conditions that will allow the fast push to succed in Phase 3. If the attacking force manages to steamroll the OpFor in Phase 1 or 2, then great. You're indefinitely gonna win.

The point is: being better than the other guys is not Strategy.

Lily, we are planning to scout that tonight. I'd encourage you to do the same and report back either way. Again, the goal is to minimize liabilities and maximize advantages BEFORE the first shot is fired.

[Lord Ikka]

It's a version of the Zerg rush. Not a horrible tactic, but mainly will work against uncoordinated opponents.

[Veritae]

That's exactly right Lord. Uncoordinated or Overconfident units. That's my theory anyway. And since you can see what unit(s) make up the OpFor while loading, you can guess in advance whether it will work.

Edited by Veritae, 12 December 2014 - 09:02 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Veritae, on 12 December 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

I agree Hlynka. That is why rather than roll the dice with the original push to see if the attackers are more coordinated than the defenders, my proposal postpones the push and attempts to maximize all conditions that will allow the fast push to succed in Phase 3. If the attacking force manages to steamroll the OpFor in Phase 1 or 2, then great. You're indefinitely gonna win.

The point is: being better than the other guys is not Strategy.

Lily, we are planning to scout that tonight. I'd encourage you to do the same and report back either way. Again, the goal is to minimize liabilities and maximize advantages BEFORE the first shot is fired.

I don't have a unit with members at all, so I can not test this coordinated, since PGI doe snot allow me to prepare drops as a group made of other people. I need to go with whatever the MM gives me.

[Bigbacon]

something similar to this works VERY well as I have just seen on the caustic map. HHoD proved it. we had an alert the rush was coming but it was too late for the slow guys to re-position. they did try the light rush which was stopped. Once you they brought more than 4 (i think they pusched with 8) it was all over.

the other map, not so sure this can work. the defenders can setup between the gates and long as isn't a light rush and we have all slow mechs, it could work out of the alpha gate by going behind the hill.

Edited by Bigbacon, 12 December 2014 - 09:22 AM.