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Reforging The Star League


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#301 Roadbeer

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:03 PM

View PostbobF, on 08 February 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

It's useless for us to try and explain. Everyone is trying to play against the established game mechanics and point of the game (i.e. that everyone is a merc and flipping sides is what is SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN), and the Star League is just the current iteration of blind Clan hate.

Everyone can compare epeens on which unit has the greater history or more egalitarian member policies, I really don't care. All I know is that MS welcomed me as a pilot without preconceptions, without prejudice, and above all, without some overarching and bloated player-generated bureaucracy. MS is here to PLAY VIDEO GAMES, and we are doing it right as evidenced by our successes in battle, the cohesion of the players in TS, and the foresight of the leadership to play the game as it's obviously meant to be played.

It's becoming more evident that the MS snub (which for the record, WE WERE ejected from the conference, whether you want to play semantics or not. Summarily booting someone from the channel or politely explaining that no one likes them and they should really gtfo, but can remain if they want, has the same functional outcome) is really about unit rivalry and factional political clout, and not some RP effort to save humanity, which is a shame. Roadbeer is going on about diplomacy but it is YOU GUYS that need to choose words carefully; it is YOU that loses more by antagonizing a unit that not only has great numbers, but a great majority of competent to high-end competitive players. It's one thing to be a part of some zerg unit just filled with bodies, but quite another to have both the numbers AND skill. Think about it.

People have also conveniently ignored the realities that the MS posters in this thread have tried to convey. You aren't going to stop the PvP, and making up a player bureaucracy that tells players whom they're allowed to attack, while the attack lanes themselves remain open, is never going to function. When I made my post regarding the devolution of Inner Sphere space into Complete Warfare, and that it was glorious, was a sincere post. Everyone is fighting right now, having fun in the way they have fun. A star league puts too many parameters on that, and narrows the options for players opting in to such a bad idea, as can be seen from detractors and opponents (who are not members of MS if anyone noticed).

Not lost on any astute observer is also the snubbing of Steiner. Really, you guys are going to have a star league without one of the great houses, as they seek to deal with several invaders at the same time, an effort you label as treason? Really? Because a group of players that wish to keep their imagined sovereign territory intact against another faction taking advantage of the situation by playing the victim (FRR)? This thing is so full of holes, only because everyone advocating this Star League refuses to accept the game mechanics as they stand today.

When PGI implements more in-game management tools, social tools, and other things related to player organization, all we have are queues and attack lanes. You people should really just save yourselves the stress and welcome opportunities to PvP, rather than create imagined enemies to satisfy your collective RP bohners.

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#302 Michael Costanza

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:07 PM

View PostValar13, on 08 February 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

Does the term "house loyalist unit" mean anything to you, or are you really that obtuse?


Weren't you just in House Davion?

#303 AlexEss

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:16 PM

Disclaimer: This post is from a OOC pov and Alexess does not hold a communications position with the SoR. His opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the SOR

View PostXavier, on 08 February 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

Regardless of what you may think about us the truth is we just want to fight and experience planetary in all the different ways that it can be experienced. And if we happen to be good at it than that's just a sidebar note.


And that is not about to change... No one is stripping away your ability to what you want when you want... All that is said is that you will not have access to the nSL communications network nor will you be able to rely on nSL allied units to support your pushes or rallies (not that you exactly do that any way =) ) Heck if anything this should up the amount of fights you can get in to as long as you pick an active border =)

I just think this got blown way out of proportion due to the whole canonically important name... =)

#304 bobF

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:17 PM

I have no choice but to point out that Wesley Crusher eventually becomes a transhuman entity of enormous power, tutored by the Traveler, and one of the handful of Trek canon characters to achieve a greater level of being.

I hope no one is mad.

#305 Harathan

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:21 PM

Quote

I hope no one is mad

Said every shameless self aggrandising troll ever.

Edited by Harathan, 08 February 2015 - 02:22 PM.


#306 AlexEss

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:24 PM

View PostbobF, on 08 February 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

I have no choice but to point out that Wesley Crusher eventually becomes a transhuman entity of enormous power, tutored by the Traveler, and one of the handful of Trek canon characters to achieve a greater level of being.

I hope no one is mad.


And his actor went on to try and host a talk/clip show that went.. nowhere... =P In my mind one equal out the other. =)

#307 bobF

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:24 PM

When my lucid arguments are properly articulated, people get mad.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

#308 Catamount

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:25 PM

I have no choice but to point out that Wesley Crusher's "ascension" ends up working out so well for him, that he ends up right back in Starfleet anyways as the oldest Lt JG in Star Trek as of 2379 since the Tapestry alternate reality Picard. Oh well. At least he's failing upwards.

Edited by Catamount, 08 February 2015 - 02:26 PM.


#309 Roadbeer

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:27 PM

View PostbobF, on 08 February 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

I have no choice but to point out that Wesley Crusher eventually becomes a transhuman entity of enormous power, tutored by the Traveler, and one of the handful of Trek canon characters to achieve a greater level of being.

And through all that, continued to be so annoying that most consider him the Jar Jar Binks of Star Trek. A feat that was only rivaled by Rom's son until he was injured in the war.

#310 MischiefSC

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:28 PM

@bob-

By your description ms is "doing it right" in the same way CoD and Farmville do. Make it all simple, shallow, causal, pointless and colorless and it appeals to everyone because nothing actually means anything. Donkey Kong had more depth and challenge in the arcade than where you're describing; at least it had $0.25 at stake.

We have a pointless PvP environment. It's the pug and group queue. Go PvP all you want, no relevant factions. CW is, at least potentially, way more than that. Factions that mean something, borders and boundaries with relevance, alliances, rivalries and all the human social interaction that comes with.

Hence all the hate. In this potential you come swinging in saying "nah, **** it, nobody should want or enjoy anything more complex or challenging than Farmville. Unless PGI creates mechanics for players controlling factions directly we're going to actively **** on anything and everything everyone else does until you agree we are right and cw is just like pug queue with respawns".

If we get PGI to pug invasion game mode in group queue and let's you mix clan/is mechs would you leave CW to people who actually want CW or would you be driven to keep screwing with anything that doesn't try to reduce the game to it's lowest denominator?

#311 CyclonerM

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:32 PM

View PostHarathan, on 08 February 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

Said every shameless self aggrandising troll ever.

You are all forgetting something about ignoring trolls.. :ph34r:

View PostMischiefSC, on 08 February 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

@bob-

By your description ms is "doing it right" in the same way CoD and Farmville do. Make it all simple, shallow, causal, pointless and colorless and it appeals to everyone because nothing actually means anything. Donkey Kong had more depth and challenge in the arcade than where you're describing; at least it had $0.25 at stake.

...


If we get PGI to pug invasion game mode in group queue and let's you mix clan/is mechs would you leave CW to people who actually want CW or would you be driven to keep screwing with anything that doesn't try to reduce the game to it's lowest denominator?


Now, i badly need Jaroth Corbett's clap clap gifts to express how much i like this post.

Edited by CyclonerM, 08 February 2015 - 02:35 PM.


#312 bobF

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:35 PM

You don't like Nog? He opened the door for all Ferengi, and ends up being a competent Captain.

As for Mischief, he's still mad that his unit has no planets, has no significant presence in the game, and remains a second-rate defender of the Golden Zerg (admittedly not that zergy these days). A political apparatus like the Star League allows scrub units like his to have a voice, when in a PvP game the only thing that matters is martial prowess.

Who truly wants to be part of a group that limits your PvP in a video game, just for the sake of units and players that aren't good enough or savvy enough to achieve fun on their own? Not me, personally.

Edited by bobF, 08 February 2015 - 02:40 PM.


#313 Roadbeer

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:47 PM

View PostbobF, on 08 February 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

As for Mischief, he's still mad that his unit has no planets, has no significant presence in the game

Wait, I thought MS didn't care about having tags on planets. Please square your rhetoric with the rest of your organization

Edited by Roadbeer, 08 February 2015 - 02:49 PM.


#314 Nightmare1

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:52 PM

ROFL

...And the delicate negotiations to reforge the Star League break down amidst discussion of Wesley Crusher and Star Trek.

Does that mean that Star Trek just defeated the Star League without firing a shot? :rolleyes:
------------------------------------------------------

Serious time now:

If y'all want to do some reforging, then I say, "Go for it!" and "Good for you!"

Just remember, "Loyalists," that some folks here play to be mercs and are not particularly concerned about banner waving and grandiose, Machiavellian treaties and pronouncements. So, don't get too bent out of shape if some merc Units decide to play the video game as an actual game and do their own thing without first consulting you, or in direct contradiction with your wishes. :)

#315 bobF

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:55 PM

View PostRoadbeer, on 08 February 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

Please square your rhetoric with the rest of your organization please


How about no. My thoughts are my own; anything MS leadership wants to make official they'll come here and tell you.

This whole "let's make the game more rich by including made up rules by neckbeards, otherwise it's just an 8 bit arcade game" is a dodge used by players who habitually get ownd in both CW and general queues. You want to tell me that a tiny unit that basically accomplishes nothing has the same voting power and weight of voice as a unit that has the capability to set the entire Inner Sphere on fire with warfare? Nonsense. The same nonsense other units will be subjected to when opting into this bad idea.

"The Tiny Nobodies from House Golden Zerg have voted NO on your request to PvP where and when you like. This meeting of the Star League is adjourned."

And you guys have actual buy-in on this? Incredible. Right now, everyone is blinded by Clan hate, but soon it will be apparent the constraints this idea has on player enjoyment of the game itself, and will collapse. Anyone who bothers to read some of the player reactions to the General Cease Fire in the relevant House threads can see for themselves.

#316 Catamount

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:58 PM

You know, if I'd known we'd have gotten bobF so angry and worked up over this, I'd have suggested we do it months ago.

If that's all we accomplish then it was a worthwhile endeavor.

Edited by Catamount, 08 February 2015 - 02:59 PM.


#317 AlexEss

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 02:58 PM

View PostNightmare1, on 08 February 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

So, don't get too bent out of shape if some merc Units decide to play the video game as an actual game and do their own thing without first consulting you, or in direct contradiction with your wishes. :)


I don´t think anyone will. This is just in essence a tool to help like-minded people to play together and organize their efforts. Those who do not care for that. No negativity towards them.

This is nothing that different from what for an example -MS- does... apart from that each component retains their independent identity... Or the big alliances in EvE.

#318 ChairBorneRanger

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 03:00 PM

This is quality.

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#319 Nightmare1

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 03:03 PM

View PostAlexEss, on 08 February 2015 - 02:58 PM, said:


I don´t think anyone will. This is just in essence a tool to help like-minded people to play together and organize their efforts. Those who do not care for that. No negativity towards them.

This is nothing that different from what for an example -MS- does... apart from that each component retains their independent identity... Or the big alliances in EvE.


Sounds good! Just wanted to make sure I threw that out there though since there are a bunch of those, "I hate Merc Units!' threads out there, lol. :D

#320 Molossian Dog

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 03:05 PM

This is still about MS, not the Star League.

I get some MS people don´t like some Marik people and vice versa. I couldn´t care less.

Call me when there is something to actually discuss about the Star League.





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