309 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

Roadkill, on 27 May 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

What we're actually saying: the very specific (P) variants that were included in the original Phoenix packs may not be sold again. New (P) Mechs based on different variants are fine. New (P2) versions of the same original (P) variants are fine.

Yep.

Roadkill, on 27 May 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

I have to assume that you and Alan are deliberately misreading what's being said so that you can continue arguing, because we've been completely clear about it from the beginning.

I've quoted and linked to the Phoenix FAQ several times in the last twelve or so pages, first time in post #60 on page 3. The FAQ states very clearly and explicitly what it is that will never be available again: The (P) variants with their custom geometry, 30% CB boost, and 10% LP boost.

Anything else is fair game (although they did pull a fast one with the Hotrod Camo, removing the word "exclusive" after a few weeks).

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Nightmare1, on 27 May 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

Also, Phoenix Pack II can still happen. This poll was solely about re-releasing Pack I.

With what? And dont say marauder, warhammer or any of the other project phoenix mechs because HG.

[stjobe]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 May 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

With what? And dont say marauder, warhammer or any of the other project phoenix mechs because HG.

The Locust has had 3 new variants since the original Phoenix release.

The Battlemaster also has 3 new variants, the Shadow Hawk 2, and the Thunderbolt and Griffin have one new variant each.

The only one without a new variant is the Wolverine (it, and the TDR, are also missing Heroes).

So that's 10 new variants of five of the six Phoenix + Sabre 'mechs.

All in all, there's 22 variants of the six 'mechs (not counting Heroes and Champions).

Should be plenty for a new pack or two, don't you think?

Edited by stjobe, 27 May 2015 - 02:55 PM.

[Zeusus]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 May 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

With what? And dont say marauder, warhammer or any of the other project phoenix mechs because HG.

And really that is what truly settles Phoenix 2. Regardless of how this poll went there was never going to be a phoenix 2 because there is HG. Even if 100% of people voted yes there would still be no Phoenix 2.

[Alan Davion]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 May 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

With what? And dont say marauder, warhammer or any of the other project phoenix mechs because HG.

Zeusus, on 27 May 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

And really that is what truly settles Phoenix 2. Regardless of how this poll went there was never going to be a phoenix 2 because there is HG. Even if 100% of people voted yes there would still be no Phoenix 2.

Did no one watch or listen to the town hall at the start of the month?

PGI could potentially do the Marauder and others, but they would either have to...

A. Negotiate a deal with both HG and the movie studio doing the Robotech movie. This would likely involve someone from HG overseeing the artwork to make sure it didn't clash.

Or...

B. Do the Marauder and others on their own. This would likely require PGI to have sold enough Clans 1/2/3 and Resistance 1/2, and whatever other Mechs they have after Resistance 2, in order to bank up enough cash in order to roll the Marauder and others, as well as survive the fallout with HG.

The potential merger/partnership with Harebrained Schemes in the works may allow them to do the Marauder and all the rest due to Jordan's past experience with the Fasa/HG battle, and the original rise of Project Phoenix.

But, on the other hand if any of you were in Russ' position, would you ever, and I mean EVER consider doing anything related to Phoenix after the uproar last week? Something tells me, if any of you had any common sense, you'd say "Hell the F NO!"

I certainly would if I were in Russ' position.

[Nightmare1]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 May 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

With what? And dont say marauder, warhammer or any of the other project phoenix mechs because HG.

Simple, the variants that weren't in the first pack.

Duh!

Seriously though, there's actually a pretty good thread about this in Feature Suggestions. I also believe that PGI would have had more support for a "Yes" vote if they had styled the poll as a "new" pack instead of re-releasing the original pack.

[Zeusus]

Alan Davion, on 27 May 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

Did no one watch or listen to the town hall at the start of the month?

Nope

Alan Davion, on 27 May 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

The potential merger/partnership with Harebrained Schemes in the works may allow them to do the Marauder and all the rest due to Jordan's past experience with the Fasa/HG battle, and the original rise of Project Phoenix.

But, on the other hand if any of you were in Russ' position, would you ever, and I mean EVER consider doing anything related to Phoenix after the uproar last week? Something tells me, if any of you had any common sense, you'd say "Hell the F NO!"

I certainly would if I were in Russ' position.

This has already been explained in other posts, believe what you will.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

stjobe, on 27 May 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

The Locust has had 3 new variants since the original Phoenix release.

The Battlemaster also has 3 new variants, the Shadow Hawk 2, and the Thunderbolt and Griffin have one new variant each.

The only one without a new variant is the Wolverine (it, and the TDR, are also missing Heroes).

So that's 10 new variants of five of the six Phoenix + Sabre 'mechs.

All in all, there's 22 variants of the six 'mechs (not counting Heroes and Champions).

Should be plenty for a new pack or two, don't you think?

Recycling mechs already in the game rather than introducing new ones? No I dont think thats good

Alan Davion, on 27 May 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

Did no one watch or listen to the town hall at the start of the month?

Was working, plus going through three plus hours of rambling isnt worth my time. Im going off the several times Ive contacted Russ directly on Twitter and what he's told me. That either HG says no or that player expectation says no.

[stjobe]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 May 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

Recycling mechs already in the game rather than introducing new ones? No I dont think thats good

Just what do you think "should we re-open Phoenix pack" meant? Twelve brand-new 'mechs?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

stjobe, on 27 May 2015 - 04:03 PM, said:

Just what do you think "should we re-open Phoenix pack" meant? Twelve brand-new 'mechs?

No I thought we were moving on from that

Since you were the one talking about adding variants that WERENT in the original as well

stjobe, on 27 May 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

The Locust has had 3 new variants since the original Phoenix release.

The Battlemaster also has 3 new variants, the Shadow Hawk 2, and the Thunderbolt and Griffin have one new variant each.

The only one without a new variant is the Wolverine (it, and the TDR, are also missing Heroes).

So that's 10 new variants of five of the six Phoenix + Sabre 'mechs.

All in all, there's 22 variants of the six 'mechs (not counting Heroes and Champions).

Should be plenty for a new pack or two, don't you think?

Unless those were all in the original pack?

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 27 May 2015 - 04:06 PM.

[Roadkill]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 May 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Unless those were all in the original pack?

Re-read his post.

12 were, 10 weren't. The 10 that weren't include 3 new Locusts, 2 new Shadow Hawks, 1 new Griffin, 1 new Thunderbolt, and 3 new Battlemasters. Only the Wolverine is still stuck at 3 total (none new) variants.

They could make a brand-new Phoenix 2 pack with those 3 Locusts, 2 Shadow Hawks, 1 Thunderbolt, and 3 Battlemasters. All they'd have to do is create 1 more Shadow Hawk and 2 more Thunderbolts and they could have a completely different Phoenix 2 pack using the same 4 chassis as with Phoenix 1 but all different variants.

[Alan Davion]

Roadkill, on 27 May 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

Re-read his post.

12 were, 10 weren't. The 10 that weren't include 3 new Locusts, 2 new Shadow Hawks, 1 new Griffin, 1 new Thunderbolt, and 3 new Battlemasters. Only the Wolverine is still stuck at 3 total (none new) variants.

They could make a brand-new Phoenix 2 pack with those 3 Locusts, 2 Shadow Hawks, 1 Thunderbolt, and 3 Battlemasters. All they'd have to do is create 1 more Shadow Hawk and 2 more Thunderbolts and they could have a completely different Phoenix 2 pack using the same 4 chassis as with Phoenix 1 but all different variants.

As long as the custom geometry, camo and colors on the (P) variants for this were the same as they were for wave 1, I'd be okay if they did it like this.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Roadkill, on 27 May 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

Re-read his post.

12 were, 10 weren't. The 10 that weren't include 3 new Locusts, 2 new Shadow Hawks, 1 new Griffin, 1 new Thunderbolt, and 3 new Battlemasters. Only the Wolverine is still stuck at 3 total (none new) variants.

They could make a brand-new Phoenix 2 pack with those 3 Locusts, 2 Shadow Hawks, 1 Thunderbolt, and 3 Battlemasters. All they'd have to do is create 1 more Shadow Hawk and 2 more Thunderbolts and they could have a completely different Phoenix 2 pack using the same 4 chassis as with Phoenix 1 but all different variants.

Right... new variants that werent in the game. IE new mechs

[Roadkill]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 May 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Unless those were all in the original pack?

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 May 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

Right... new variants that werent in the game. IE new mechs

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?

None of the 10 variants in question were in the original pack. But yes, since there are only 9 of them from the original 4 chassis, they'd have to make 3 new variants in order to create a new 12-Mech pack.

Re-releasing the original Phoenix packs would also be "recycling old Mechs" so that's clearly not the problem...

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Roadkill, on 27 May 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

Re-releasing the original Phoenix packs would also be "recycling old Mechs" so that's clearly not the problem...

Who said I was for that idea? I was against tyhat as well. Hence the posts I made to the effect of "never released again" and "'exclusive' should mean something"

Because we shouldnt start opening the can of worms that is re-releasing old mechs as cash grabs instead of creating new ones.

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 27 May 2015 - 06:34 PM.

[Alan Davion]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 May 2015 - 06:32 PM, said:

Who said I was for that idea? I was against tyhat as well. Hence the posts I made to the effect of "never released again" and "'exclusive' should mean something"

Because we shouldnt start opening the can of worms that is re-releasing old mechs as cash grabs instead of creating new ones.

Ever thought that maybe they need to sell some old mechs in order to pay for the cost of developing the new ones?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Alan Davion, on 27 May 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

Ever thought that maybe they need to sell some old mechs in order to pay for the cost of developing the new ones?

Then they are truly screwed.

[Alan Davion]

And guess who screwed them over.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadkill, on 27 May 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

But the clause you quoted allows them to an offer off the market. This one already is off the market, so the clause doesn't seem to apply to me.

/shrug

I guess its in how you read it. /shrug.

[WarHippy]

1453 R, on 27 May 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

*Sigh*

I went over this a hundred times during the actual vote week. What's one more, I suppose.

All right. A Phoenix II pack, or Phoenix Redux pack, or any pack with the word 'Phoenix' anywhere in its branding, would include new [P] 'Mechs. A Marauder-[P], or Phoenix Hawk -[P], or Ost(mech)-[P]. That's how packs work - Invasion packs have (I) variants, Resistance packs have [R] variants, Phoenix packs have [P] variants.

A narrow but significant majority of existing Phoenix holders have stated that any sale of any [P] variant 'Mechs is grounds for breach-of-contract lawsuits, on top of an absolutely hellacious amount of "WORSE THAN [GODWIN]!!!" savagery. I'm not a lawyer of any sort, but don't they call massed lawsuits like this class-actions? And would class-action lawsuits not be a death stroke to just about any business that suffers one?

They don't dare offer any new Phoenix packages. You all would rise up and destroy their company with incandescent nerdrage if they tried. The offer of any [P] 'Mech, whether or not it was one of the original six [P] 'Mechs, has been most emphatically squashed by a player base which has decided that the original Phoenix package is somehow, beyond all sense or comprehension, equivalent to the way-back-when Founder's packages.

Y'all dun shot yourselves over this one. Too late to change it now, though. You all figured it was more important for Piranha to keep their word concerning Phoenix exclusivity, and so they will - the entire Phoenix program will consist of six 'Mechs nobody can buy anymore from now until the end of time.

Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. No, really. I don't need to buy more 'Mechs anyways, and I'm mostly a Clan player as it is. We didn't really need Marauders in here, the Cataphract does its job just fine if you rig it up right.

You jump to some seriously inept conclusions.