158 replies to this topic

[mogs01gt]

SaltBeef, on 19 July 2015 - 07:11 PM, said:

Not enough Mechs with Big Breasts, Game of War anyone. Everquest aka Everbreast where even the Lizard females sportin Double D,s. Mechs and Breasts we can make this work!!

There is a lot of truth to this....Biggest game in the world over sexualizes females.

[bad arcade kitty]

clan bear elemental

[SaltBeef]

I am Serious add an infantry section too this game, cha ching! Toad, infantry, pirates, mercs, special forces infiltration teams, just a different game mode attatch it to the game. Vehicles, storylines from lore and Wolf Ceremonial uniforms MmmmmmmmmhhhhMmmmnmmmmmh!

The Clan mechwarriors were not that big dough!

Edited by SaltBeef, 19 July 2015 - 07:24 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

bad arcade kitty, on 19 July 2015 - 07:11 PM, said:

why, mechwarrior series was very popular in the past

No, they weren't, none of them were ever popular. Won awards, great critical reviews, but never popular. All Mecha games are niche market games, always have been, even back in the days when only nerds and geeks played computer games. Fantasy games and then FPS games were the top dogs for a long time, now it's MMOs that cater to the memememenownownownow crowd.

The Crescent Hawk games were single player games, complicated and long, lots of fun, not popular. MechWarrior was a single player, complicated and long, lots of fun, never popular but sold well enough to get a console port. MW2 was a single player game with a multiplayer afterthought, long and lots of fun, never popular, we only got GBL and MW2:Mercs because the license was for 3 titles by a certain date, so Activision pushed out MW2:Mercs before it was finished. The MW2 series was the best selling of ALL the BTech/MW titles, but it was also never popular. Quake, which came out after MW2, was far more popular than MW2. MW3 was pretty much a failure, reviews were good, sales not so much and it was never popular either. MW4 was released less than a year after MW3, MS knew MW3 was a failure and pushed MW4 out early to try and keep the franchise alive. MW4 did better than MW3, good reviews and good sales, but never matched MW2, and it was finally laid to rest because the numbers were never there and it was never popular, same as the other MW titles. MA actually had good sales, mainly because it was an XBox Live premier game, MS pushed it hard. Game was a failure, never popular either. MA2 was just MS spitting on the franchise's grave.

Sorry, but none of the MW titles was EVER popular, MW2 had great sales over a period of 5 years, but many of those sales were due to bundled packs with Thrusmaster joysticks and/or Voodoo video cards, both big sellers at the time, that's why the sales were so high, it wasn't the game that was the object of the purchase, it was just included with that object.

[SaltBeef]

Infantry missions Kinda like Metal gear Solid. Hey it is battletech and cry engine may be more forgiving in this modes.

Edited by SaltBeef, 19 July 2015 - 07:34 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

As the title says, why are mech games always unpopular and unplayed by most people

theyre not?

mechwarrior 2 was one of the best selling pc games of all time. It made activision $70 million dollars. If I recall the cost of a PC game back in the 90s was around $40, so thats approximately 2 million copies sold. Its no minecraft or world of warcraft but those are still excellent sales numbers by todays standards.

mech games done right definitely sell. mech games that are tu rds will only sell to battletech fans. and the best MWO will ever be is a polished tu rd. Because the devs refuse to fix the core problems of the game like the heat system, weapon balance, and we still have beta testing gamemodes. Although they have been updating the maps which is good.

but the biggest reason MWO isnt like mechwarrior 2 is that it lacks immersion factor. The game never makes you think youre a pilot in the 30th century. Instead it constantly reminds you youre just playing a video game with mechs in it. Mechwarrior 2 suspended disbelief, MWO does not. If MWO immersed players more in the setting of battletech I definitely think it would be a more successful game overall.

Edited by Khobai, 19 July 2015 - 07:42 PM.

[WatDo]

1 - Most are on PC. Unless it's a AAA title from a huge publisher or a hyper successful MMO most PC games aren't popular outside of the PC crowd (obviously).
2 - Like others said, make your mech game too simple and it's a normal FPS, make it half decent and most "gamers" can't understand it because they're used to CoD gameplay.
3 - The state of the gaming world right now. If something isn't a super watered down online testosteronefest/grindfest/set-up IP along the lines of CoD, WoW, farmville, etc. then it's not going to get alot of players. People don't want to try new things.

I think it's kinda funny that some of the most successful movies are ones that have giant creatures, giant robots, or giant creatures fighting giant robots... but people won't bat an eye at a giant robot game cause CoD is more popular.

[SaltBeef]

MW3 with Force Feedback Joystick was Friggin Sweet! That and Need for Speed Hot Pusuit.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Khobai, on 19 July 2015 - 07:34 PM, said:

theyre not?

mechwarrior 2 was one of the best selling pc games of all time. It made activision $70 million dollars. If I recall the cost of a PC game back in the 90s was around $40, so thats approximately 2 million copies sold.

mech games done right definitely sell. mech games that are tu rds will only sell to battletech fans. and the best MWO will ever be is a polished tu rd. Because the devs refuse to fix the core problems of the game like the heat system, weapon balance, and we still have beta testing gamemodes. Although they have been updating the maps which is good.

MW2 total sales, which includes MW2, MW2 95, GBL, MW2:Mercs, and the Titanium Pack were all together $70 over 5 years time. Most of those sales were actually bundled packages where the GAME was not the object of the purchase, something else was, the game was simply included and was counted as a sale. I believe it was closer to 3 million total copies of all the various MW2 titles btw, not 2 million. Brand new in 95 the game was $60 USD, think GBL ran me $55 and MW2:Mercs was $55 as well. The Titanium Pack was a bit more at first but it was quickly put in the bargain bins if it wasn't in a bundle, didn't really sell well on it's own, just packaged with the Voodoo card it ran on. Activision had bundles with Thrusmaster and 3dFx both, and the 3 of them even had a big bundle of the Titanium pack/Joystick/Voodoo card! Buddy of mine got that big pack, gave ME the game, he bought it for the Voodoo card and joystick, no interest in the game. I didn't own a Voodoo card, so I gave it to a friend who had one, he never installed it.

[Khobai]

Quote

The state of the gaming world right now. If something isn't a super watered down online testosteronefest/grindfest/set-up IP along the lines of CoD, WoW, farmville, etc. then it's not going to get alot of players. People don't want to try new things.

Thats because when you have a video game that costs 20-100 million dollars to develop you dont want to take risks. So you create a game thats "safe" and unfortunately thats all the games you described...

PGI originally wanted to make mechwarrior 5. But microsoft wouldnt risk it and forced them to do an online game like world of tanks instead. Because microsoft didnt think mechwarrior 5 would sell enough copies. They were probably right.

Quote

There is a lot of truth to this....Biggest game in the world over sexualizes females.

minecraft oversexualizes females?

Although minecraft is probably the best example of a game breaking away from the standard mold and being tremendously successful. Minecraft is proof that a game doesnt have to be like CoD, WoW, or farmville in order to sell 20 million copies. Its too bad most developers dont want to take risks to develop something "new".

Edited by Khobai, 19 July 2015 - 07:57 PM.

[Anjian]

Spr1ggan, on 19 July 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

Wasn't Armored Core kinda popular?

Also there's Heavy Gear Assault to come, if it ever comes.

Armored Core 4 and 4Answer are among the very best mech games I ever played in terms of single user experience and story. They mark the directional debut of Hidetaka Miyazaki, who would later direct Bloodbourne and Dark Souls. Armored Core are full of desperate one man missions against massive odds. Most of all, they have a sense of darkness and desolation I don't find in other mech franchises. But being a bit too eccentric and hard core was too much for most people except for a small dedicated base of players. In the end, the success of Dark Souls overwhelmed the developers to keep following the money trail. The story is similar to another promising mech franchise: Zone of the Enders. But the success of another work by its developer --- Hideo Kojima --- caused ZoE to flounder in favor of another series: Metal Gear Solid.

I heard the director that was in charge of Chromehounds and Armored Core V has left the company to work with Square Enix, in an effort to revive another mech francise: Front Mission.

[SaltBeef]

Sweet intro and graphic intensity.

[PappySmurf]

OP This IP was once popular from MechWarrior2-MechWarrior4 Mercenaries with over 1 million + active online pilots playing in-game or on Kali-Net.mech-ten.net or the MSN gamming zone game services.PGI devs are not very bright in regards to making MWO into a game everyone in the family can play for free in private leagues and social enough for large groups to get more involved in its future.

MWO needs to go back to its roots back to the super social atmosphere where everyone wants to play this game and pay into it.This IP was built on 50% social atmosphere and devoted fans and big stompy robot battles with great diversity in its game modes tactical play and lots of content.

MWO will not survive much longer if this is not done=(social league play and a free private lobby system) plus PVE will not save MWO from failure it will only help it survive a year to two years more at most.

Edited by PappySmurf, 19 July 2015 - 09:07 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

One can say that big robots are part of Japan's culture. I'm not surprised if anything containing mecha is popular there.

Too bad I could only play until Armored Core 3. Never bought any console again after PS2

[Dingo Battler]

The top games are easy to enter, easy to balance, hard to master.

MOBA games are simple. Control a single hero, 4-6 spells with cooldown, yet has great tactical depth. Easy to enter, but hard to master. Tweak cooldown, damage and effect duration for each spell to balance.

Same goes for CS, 1 person, run, strafe, shoot, 3-4 weapons, yet requires twitch reflexes. Again, easy to enter, but hard to master.

MWO/Mech sims are very complex. TAG, ECM, weapons, falloff range, hardpoints, low mounted, high mounted, weight classes, poptarting, ghost heat, modifying, etc. Actually requires a lot of dedication just to be a mere noob. Very hard to balance. Does a negative quirk of increased laser duration, counter the effects of high hardpoint placement? Hard even for your average layman to understand as a spectator. Barrier to entry is an absolute cliff. MWO makes it far worse, because the stock mech you get is almost unplayable and requires extremely heavy modification, along with reading countless guides, just to make it minimially viable.

I was in the MW2 generation. I remember the rulebook they gave us, as thick book detailing each and every mech. Torso twisting was done by the "<" and the ">" buttons. I didn't even aim with a mouse, because my computer didn't even have one! I loved it, but it is too complicated for most of my friends. They preferred the simple "VS" games like street fighter, or marvel VS whatever.

Also, what's with the generational bashing? Boomers bash us, and we bash Gen Z? There were "pimply faced ADD twerps" in every generation. You mean all of your perfect Gen Y friends all played hard sim games? No one every played fast twitch games like SF or KOF? No one ever pulled an infinity combo on you with those stupid Marvel VS Capcom games? No one ever played half-life multiplayer? I'd admit COD is a low-skill game, but most good COD players go on to CS, which actually requires a lot of skill to play well. If anything, COD keeps the CS pool uncontaminated by absorbing all the dregs, so COD is actually a great games, and I love it, just that I don't play it.

If anything, mastering games like CS and DOTA takes a lot of dedication and skill. I admire people who can get to the top of their game.

Either way, as long as mech games are complex, they will always be niche-interest games.

Edited by KBurn85, 19 July 2015 - 09:35 PM.

[Anjian]

PappySmurf, on 19 July 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

OP This IP was once popular from MechWarrior2-MechWarrior4 Mercenaries with over 1 million + active online pilots playing in-game or on Kali-Net.mech-ten.net or the MSN gamming zone game services.PGI devs are not very bright in regards to making MWO into a game everyone in the family can play for free in private leagues and social enough for large groups to get more involved in its future.

Having even 1 million active players, this is kind of small to the mega MMOs out there like World of Tanks, DoTA2 and League of Legends. These games beef in the tens of millions. And they are still a fraction of the online game market out there.

[jss78]

About MW games being popular in the past. They were more popular in relative terms, but I wonder how much bigger the absolute number of people buying them was. PC gaming was a niche to begin with. How many people had those 386/486 machines really? Back then only the hardcore people were playing PC games anyway. Nowadays everyone and his dog has a game console, and unsurprisingly the games have become more pedestrian, while the total numbers being sold are huge by 1990s standards.

It's a bit like what's happened with music. In the 1970s someone like Jethro Tull could put out an album which was essentially a single 40-minute, relatively complex rock song. And that thing flew straight to the top of charts. Totally unimaginable today, but it's not because those same people who appreciate advanced music aren't still there. It's because the music market in whole has exploded because the huge masses who don't have a single musical gene have entered the market as buyers, leading to stuff like Bieber/Spears/whatever dominating the market in relative terms.

I think a popular MW/BT game is a pipe dream. MW is all about the complex mech control/customization system, and the huge catalogue of lore/era/faction correct hardware. No way to dumb that down too much while really remaining MW/BT. If they simply threw some mech skins on some generic FPS engine, making an accessible mech-themed twitch shooter ... would we really care?

All that said, I think MWO should certainly try to as big as possible as a niche game. Things like the current new-player experience is just unnecessarily shooting yourself in the foot, alienating people who are potentially genuinely interested in a hardcore MW/BT game.

Edited by jss78, 20 July 2015 - 02:20 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

TwentyOne, on 19 July 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

As the title says, why are mech games always unpopular and unplayed by most people. Its really discouraging that mech games are my absolute favorite type of game, but every SINGLE time a mech game comes out, its either ******, or unpopular (even if it is good) *(chromehounds, mw4, MWO, MW:LL.

And to make it worse mech games seem to be a standard for ****** frauding devs to make, cash in, then leave.

I want to see mech games make a huge comeback into the general public. I want to start seeing high budget, large, well known and well liked studios to start making mech games. There is no reason that the entire genre of giant mechs should be so hated in today's 2015 world.

I don't understand why 99% of people would prefer to play as a little army man over a giant futuristic mech! ITS SILLY how far mech games have sunken. I remember when there was a new mech game every year, 10 years ago.

TLDR+ awful grammar : *Why* in the flying F*ck are mech games not popular!? I need a world where mech games are THE #1 Top selling AND #1 highest quality, best made games.


Because mechs are fk1ng cool

Not Just Video games suffer from this. I used to be a BattleTech DemoRep (A FanPro Commando) I ran events at my Local Gaming stores, could get 3-7 players at the table, more if my regular CBT players showed up. But the usual player had already played the game in the past and was just seeing how the game evolved.

I fell for BattleTech after reading the 3025 TRO. I played it with Bottle caps and slips of paper to identify the Mechs. All I can say is Giant Stompy robots are not everyone's Cup o Tea.

[GreyNovember]

This is something that interested me as developer. I'd be that one guy who really wanted to make a Mech/Fighter Arcade game like Armored Core or Ace Combat.

Almost everyone who playtested had issues with how I controlled things / how things moved.

Like people can't control X, Y, and Z movement and rotation all at the same time at speed.

[MeiSooHaityu]

The gaming industry is too afraid to take risks because costs are too high now (development, marketing, etc...). They want a sure thing to make money. Remember, the share holders want to see steady or rapid growth. No hiccups in profit are tolerated or some people executives might be shown the door.

It's all about profit for the big publishers, not fun.

I think the industry views mech games as a First Person Shooter and little else. Because of that, only games trying to appeal to the CoD formula are deemed a safe enough venture for a publisher to put money into.

Games like MechWarrior are great, but they aren't CoD or Battlefield, so there is too much risk that the public will like it. The fact that even MWO exists sometimes boggles my mind. Then again, it has used alternative techniques to get to market (like Star Citizen and Elite) because the industry views these non-CoD like shooters as too risky for a traditional game development model.

TL;DR
Basically, the more successful the game industry gets, the more greedy it gets. It is a game of one-ups-manship that means better graphics and physics that have driven up development costs immensely. To cover those costs, they want to only develop what makes money because a loss is too costly. CoD is successful so it needs to be a CoD killer. Games like MechWarrior are too outside of what is proven, so it will never get greenlit.

It's amazing ANYTHING new or fresh ever gets made. Thank god for indie developers (when they finish a title anyway :/).