118 replies to this topic

[Kotev]

Balance is good with slight advantage to IS but dropdeck tonage is not good. With equal skill IS pushes Clan with sheer tonnage.

[Bishop Six]

Jep, on 30 December 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

Thank you, Jaroth. I am glad that someone here actually gets it.

I will put this into terms everyone can understand. This is how it is supposed to be:

Clan: Superior tech.

IS: Superior numbers.

This is balance.

This is how PGI could justify charging 2-3 times more cbills for Clan mechs vs IS mechs.

This is how it is now:

Clan:

IS: Vastly superior numbers and tech equal to or greater than Clan tech.

Where is the balance?

Clan mechs are still 2-3 times more expensive.

And so, I dare anyone to truthfully tell me that this is "balanced".

Sorry, but if you buy 1 Clan-Chassis you can use all Omnipods of all variants, so de facto you have much more options to build your mech. And when most of the clanners only build boring laserboats thats your problem.

IS mechs have only fixed weapons points and thats it.

With Clan you buy only 1 mech, the other 2 are only for mastering, much more effective for your cbills.

[3CLIPZ3]

a valiant attempt here but at this rate we're too busy talking to do anything really constructive. Might I suggest we just start a list of units willing to unite and push back. That way we don't get off topic.

Edited by 3CLIPZ3, 31 December 2015 - 04:51 AM.

[Roland09]

Question: When IS has sooo much OP mechs, as some of you claim, why would you not rather fight Clan vs. Clan? That way, the tech 'imbalance' would be gone just like that, and the outcome would be decided purely by skill. Isn't that what a 'true-to-lore' Clanner would strive for?

[Jaroth Corbett]

Bishop Six, on 31 December 2015 - 04:25 AM, said:

Sorry, but if you buy 1 Clan-Chassis you can use all Omnipods of all variants, so de facto you have much more options to build your mech. And when most of the clanners only build boring laserboats thats your problem.

IS mechs have only fixed weapons points and thats it.

With Clan you buy only 1 mech, the other 2 are only for mastering, much more effective for your cbills.

What were our options especially with the quirkening? Our ER PPCs have no velocity buffs like the IS, our ACs do not fire one shell like the IS & our UACs jam a LOT so what else were we supposed to build except laser vomits? That IS our problem. The IS tech which should be inferior is now superior. Omnimechs are supposed to be the ultimate hot swappable mechs in the BT Universe but for some reason our engines & jumpjets are locked in place preventing us from making the builds we want.

How does the Inner Sphere which is technically inferior have the ability to change engines & remove jump jets but the Clans can't? Utter IS bias by PGI. I can only hope somebody else picks this thing up & does it right.

Roland09, on 31 December 2015 - 06:04 AM, said:

Question: When IS has sooo much OP mechs, as some of you claim, why would you not rather fight Clan vs. Clan? That way, the tech 'imbalance' would be gone just like that, and the outcome would be decided purely by skill. Isn't that what a 'true-to-lore' Clanner would strive for?

The whole set up is this is 3050 which is the start of the Clan invasion of the Inner Sphere. The Clans are SUPPOSED to be attacking IS territories & more than that because of the invasion they elected an ilKhan to lead it when the post has not been filled for a long time. Each Clan was designated a specific combat zone & a basic NAP was agreed to. The Clans are supposed to only be fighting IS forces at this point burning a straight shot to Terra, so no we can't "just fight Clan vs Clan." Wow dude.

Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 31 December 2015 - 06:22 AM.

[Thanatos31]

Apart from all the valid points in this thread a short FYI:


I will be more active on StranaMechty and will help anywone with questions regarding CGBI or serve as a POC.

[Commander A9]

If I am incorrect about MercStar setting up the Rasalhauge combat server system, then do forgive my ignorance.

We're all adults here, guys. Let's work together and stop bashing each other over petty stuff. I don't know why this is such a hard concept to grasp...

That, and please support the major units who are desperately trying to fight off the Inner Sphere, give you guys something to do, or at least breathe life into a controversial gaming system.

Help yourself, help each other.

Edited by Commander A9, 31 December 2015 - 11:16 AM.

[Jet Black Dog]

Commander A9, on 31 December 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

If I am incorrect about MercStar setting up the Rasalhauge combat server system, then do forgive my ignorance.

We're all adults here, guys. Let's work together and stop bashing each other over petty stuff. I don't know why this is such a hard concept to grasp...

That, and please support the major units who are desperately trying to fight off the Inner Sphere, give you guys something to do, or at least breathe life into a controversial gaming system.

Help yourself, help each other.

I like the clan wolf video earlier. So, not vat-bred to be *******? Remind em.
Assymetric game balance is rough.
I wrote something longer, but - my compie crashed - it doesn't seem to like MWO much-
anyway - as per MS's head trainer, the new player guides and CW resources are free to be used on any server -my opinion is the trainings made a considerable difference - the new player guides do, too ( also up in old comstar channel) - but I think the key thing is having a central hub ( like comstar of old, or the FRR hub ) where communication is easy, and new players have a 'safety net'. IF you are in touch with the Stranamechty admins, and they want a new player/training channel, be glad to relin those.
You can argue about crusaders spitting in the face of Kerensky's message and intent ( ), and wardens kneecapping them, later.
Then we can debate game balance in what has to be the WORST era (3050) for "balance" as by lore, imbalance is the whole point - i guess while you're at it, we can petition PGI to allow hacks for clan players so that they are actually superhuman like lore clanners?
Anyway, all jokes aside, even as a clan-despiser, I think this is a great, perhaps vital, idea.
Sure, right now, the big - and often very, very good merc companies - basically rule cw ( tukyaid 2 made that clear, the new map reinforces it) - but that's another ball of discussions, isn't it?
The players from closed beta were awesome to us in open beta when we came in - considering this a second beta ( I do ), it behooves us to make it as welcoming to the new players as it was to us, then.
For pug matches, comstar - for clan players, stranametchy-whatsit, seems like the right way to go.
SOMETHING needs to be in place.

[old man odin]

Jaroth Corbett, on 31 December 2015 - 06:04 AM, said:

Omnimechs are supposed to be the ultimate hot swappable mechs in the BT Universe but for some reason our engines & jumpjets are locked in place preventing us from making the builds we want.

How does the Inner Sphere which is technically inferior have the ability to change engines & remove jump jets but the Clans can't? Utter IS bias by PGI. I can only hope somebody else picks this thing up & does it right.

Once again this isn't lore. Locked equipment is one of the draw backs of omnimechs. You don't even have a basic grasp on Battletech, so why do you keep citing it?

The truth is you don't want things to be like lore, you just want to have most powerful mechs.

[Leone]

The Inner Sphere isn't Inferior, just Different.

~Leone.

[Jimt0r]

Jownz, on 30 December 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

I agree that IS and Clan's need to be balanced for competitive gameplay. So if your going to balance the Mechs, BALANCE THE PRICES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IS mechs are not optimized (endo, heatsinks and engines) clan mechs already have many of these things and can swap the omi pods as you like stop winging about the price gap when you have bonus's like these

Edited by Jimt0r, 31 December 2015 - 04:07 PM.

[ManusDei]

In regards to the Merc situation Paul Inyoyo kept changing the c-bill and loyalty bonuses, it was a roller coaster. Then CW was almost all but dead at the end of CW Beta 1 phase 2 so he raised the cbill and bonuses again to get people to play CW. Finally they just made all the loyalty bonuses the same. With roller coaster changes like that, who would want to be part of that noise? The mercs were loving all the changes to c-bill, bonuses and rewards...so they kept jumping ship everytime Paul InYOYO changed the payout for CW.

Until PGI gives my timberwolf back the original rate of fire my twin UAC 5 had before the YOYO changes started I'm not ever going to spend another dollar. For what? to support more YOYO changes to balance the game? No thanks. I am for uniting the clans but you must understand where things were before embarking on building something without understanding past performance(i.e. YOYO changes).

[old man odin]

ManusDei, on 31 December 2015 - 05:07 PM, said:

Until PGI gives my timberwolf back the original rate of fire my twin UAC 5 had before the YOYO changes started I'm not ever going to spend another dollar. For what? to support more YOYO changes to balance the game? No thanks. I am for uniting the clans but you must understand where things were before embarking on building something without understanding past performance(i.e. YOYO changes).

Clan UAC/5's have never been nerfed. In fact, they've been buffed heavily. What you've probably noticed is not a rate of fire decrease but the reduction in the number of shells per volley. This is a buff as they now do the same damage with less spread.

[Wildstreak]

It is not enough to have one Teamspeak for all the Clans, there needs be one for each Clan too because each Clan needs to make serious attacks on an IS world. Otherwise, you may as well put a lot if not all Clan units in one Clan so they can just attack from there together in 12 mans, sometimes grouping with PUGs.

Don't forget those Clan newbs who are driving Trials where half of them are stock builds.

With Ghost Bear, the few times I see attempts to attack Outpost, they usually end up being PUGs. Once I wound up with an 11 man from 12BG, another time with a smaller group from mostly DSA, fun but rare. Attempts through Faction chat to get things going on Outpost failed except one or two times.

Then you have to factor in who is Attacking and Defending. When the Clans Attack, only one Clan can attack a world while the entire IS can group together for defense including 3 (4?) IS Factions that cannot attack Clans. With so many teams having gone IS, IS teams that cannot attack Clan worlds can wind up defending them against those largely Clan PUGs leaving a load of Steiner and Rasalhague (Kurita really have no reason to) Units free to attack heavily. End result, Clans cannot attack well, even in game VOIP doesn't help.

That is not one of the usual comments about separating PUGs and teams, just a note that with so many IS teams around and few Clan ones, there is an imbalance that shows by the map.

There are other factors at work (Dec. 1 changes, how PUGs are different than teams, but this is a core one why Clan unity will not work mainly focused on defense.

Edited by Wildstreak, 31 December 2015 - 06:44 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Brothers I ask, if you can organize groups and drop regularly we can change the map situation we find ourselves in.

[Wildstreak]

Grimwill, on 28 December 2015 - 02:11 AM, said:

If the Wolf territory collapse then jade falcon will have a war on two fronts.

I think it already happened by the map, Wolf seems to be down to 3 worlds and all IS attacks are on JF now.

Odins Steed, on 28 December 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

The key factor in CW is population. It's what you've lost recently.

1) Bring the population back up. Recruit people and hire mercs. You're not above this, you've done it before.

2) Join the same Clan faction. Part of the reason the FRR hub works is because they're all the same faction and can group together. You're not going to get that split into four different meagre groups.

3) Start improving yourselves and helping others. Way too many poorly optimised decks out there doing less than 1000 damage.

This is one of the major problems now.

#1 seems to be no player's fault and cannot be fixed by them that well. The transfers to IS started happening after the December 1 changes and some people went by those because of the Comp Unit belief of playing with the best out there and it seems some consider the changes to have benefited the IS. I don't see how Clans can recruit people when the transfers in CW display a belief of the IS being stronger.

#2 is right on because of what I posted above. It is easier for IS since only 2 of their 3 Factions that can attack Clan worlds have the ability to attack JF while Rasalhague and Kurita with support of every other IS Faction can keep 3 other Clans locked in. This would require waiting for temp contracts to end or Clan Units taking penalties to switch.

#3 is not something that can be that easily fixed until PGI comes back January 4th and serious effort is made to have more than 4 community designed Champion Mechs for Trial use Clan side.

Jaroth Corbett, on 29 December 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

How about getting some troops for Smoke Jaguar? -SC- fought hard for Tukkayid 2 but as you so eloquently put it:


Or do you all just want to give up on that section of space?

Thing is, only JF really has territory now but not for long. Do the Clans want to keep that space or start over from scratch? I know through all of CW every Clan but SJ had their moment to be Top Clan but the current territory issue is valid.

Jep, on 29 December 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

We have IS pilots bragging to us that its their turn to be OP and that they are going to destroy us! This is not balance! This is not Lore! This is an abomination!

This is the only thing from this post I thought worth addressing.

It is very similar to a discussion that happens regarding a boardgame called Federation & Empire. Both that game and CW are based on a lore historical account of a major war. One of the big questions is how to get the feel of that war without restricting player choice so much that they cannot try something new, something not in the lore war. Previously CW had first GB delving deep into IS space with all 4 Clans taking more territory than they should have by lore, then when Phase 2 beagn JF followed by Wolf went even further. Now we have the IS pushing the Clans right out and leaving nothing but the Fifth Succession War to play.

What is PGI's and the community's vision of how CW regarding lore is supposed to be? The ability to follow the pace of the lore Clan Invasion while maintaining some freedom of choice different than lore? So far, they failed at that 3 times so there is no CW balance if that is the goal. If not the goal, then PGI needs to clarify the goal because there seems to be none.

Phase 3 tools might help but right now they seem to have issues that need addressing before rolling that out.

Dawnstealer, on 30 December 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

You only post this to frighten away Marik children.

Khobai, on 30 December 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

the problem is these merc corps are allowed to keep switching faction which completely ruins CW.

like -MS- can be clan wolf one week then switch to FRR the next week. Why is that even allowed? IMO you should get locked into playing a faction for the entire season and not be allowed to switch until the season ends.

Jack Shayu Walker, on 30 December 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

Yeah, they definitely need to place more restrictions on these units that have so much control over the balance of CW. Perhaps the larger you are the longer they should have to stick to a faction?

They can switch because they can, though not lore for mercs to go Clan, there were no lore viable ways of allowing someone to switch between Clan and IS unless you use the Bondsman stuff as your RP explanation. I will admit I have never seen any suggestions about changing contract time for Factions but after seeing the attempts to move people by offering different rewards per Faction, a system that failed miserably, I do not think having different contract times would help. People and Units that do not want to get trapped into long term contracts will shun Factions that have them creating another population imbalance, don't think this is a viable solution.

quantaca, on 31 December 2015 - 02:32 AM, said:

Balance overall is pretty good like it should be in a game (lore is only there for fluff reasons not to dictate the gameplay), and if you are getting your *** kicked its because of 1. The tonnage difference and 2. The fact that they actually buffed some of the ******** IS mechs that people kept taking into CW so now they are not gimping themselves as much.

Balance is not that good. Tonnage difference changes just allowed more Heavies and Assaults that make the CW modes more like Quick Play Skirmish matches that is not what CW is supposed to be. Buffed the worst IS Mechs? I can name several, I will just take the popular example. The Vindicator is considered for a long time a bad IS Mech, I am trying them now and seeing problems. What buffs did it get that you see a Lance, heck even ONE Vindicator in a CW match?

You tried and failed unless you are one of those guys who treats every mode like Skirmish and complains when someone win by Conquest points or cap win in Assault, thanks for your attempted contribution.

Roland09, on 31 December 2015 - 06:04 AM, said:

Question: When IS has sooo much OP mechs, as some of you claim, why would you not rather fight Clan vs. Clan? That way, the tech 'imbalance' would be gone just like that, and the outcome would be decided purely by skill. Isn't that what a 'true-to-lore' Clanner would strive for?

Well to be objective, how could the Clans fight each other when all are reduced to 2-3 worlds? What happens if one Clan conquers the other three, then what? Fight the IS again going through the same issues happening now? Makes no sense to waste the energy doing that. You do not remove the imbalance this way, you just temporarily ignore it with the Clans being Bandit planets and the IS is left with the Fifth Succession War. Is that PGI's long term goal for CW as I mentioned earlier in this post?

[Jaroth Corbett]

Odins Steed, on 31 December 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

Once again this isn't lore. Locked equipment is one of the draw backs of omnimechs. You don't even have a basic grasp on Battletech, so why do you keep citing it?

The truth is you don't want things to be like lore, you just want to have most powerful mechs.

I was furthering my point that in past mechwarrior games going as far back as 3, you could change engines & take off & put on jump jets as you please. I even posted a youtube video of how the mechlab worked in MW3.

In case you missed it:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4917381


And here is a video of MW4's mech lab:



@ 2:09 we can clearly see once again, a Clan mech with jumpjets has the option to put it on or take it off & can change the engine.


Additionally Clan tech was superior & the IS had bigger numbers which is lore, which is what I said before on MANY occasion. Soooooooo................................................

Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 01 January 2016 - 06:12 AM.

[Czarr]

Heres what i suggest, take a break from CW since its impossible to win against a 400 man MS merc company and play quick play, when MS comes back to wolf then go back to your clan invasion. The mercs will win no matter what cause they have 400 plus members zerging a planet so you can't win, they will keep ghost dropping and stomping pugs to victory. So why even bother trying to fight them when it's pointless

Edited by Czarr, 01 January 2016 - 07:56 AM.

[old man odin]

Jaroth Corbett, on 01 January 2016 - 03:31 AM, said:

I was furthering my point that in past mechwarrior games going as far back as 3, you could change engines & take off & put on jump jets as you please. I even posted a youtube video of how the mechlab worked in MW3.

That's not what you said at all though:

Quote

Omnimechs are supposed to be the ultimate hot swappable mechs in the BT Universe but for some reason our engines & jumpjets are locked in place preventing us from making the builds we want.

Which isn't true. While previous MechWarrior games have also taken liberties with the source material (more than MWO has in a lot of respects) it does not make it part of the 'BT Universe'. In TT locked equipment is a draw back of omnimechs.You're asking for additional advantages under the guise of lore that's patently false.

If you want to suggest it as a balance change, separate to lore, then fine. Just don't try and pull this bollocks lore argument. It's irrelevant to begin with even if you get it right, which you haven't been.

Edited by Odins Steed, 01 January 2016 - 08:41 AM.

[Haazheel IIC]

BLOOD WOLF, on 31 December 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

Brothers I ask, if you can organize groups and drop regularly we can change the map situation we find ourselves in.

Thats the spirit! Stop crying, fight and practice, be ready for the time CW goes live!