168 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Wolfways, on 05 March 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

They've always had a large ct, and I never had a problem with that seeing as most players go for the legs when shooting at lights anyway.

I haven't played a Jenner in over a year though. I might try them again to see if it's still possible to stay in combat the whole match (no hiding or using tactics other than "keep running") and still be the last mech to die.

Jenny is one of those light cases where shooting the CT is actually just as good as hitting the legs, or sometimes better.

[4rcs1ne]

Wolfways, on 05 March 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

They've always had a large ct, and I never had a problem with that seeing as most players go for the legs when shooting at lights anyway.

I haven't played a Jenner in over a year though. I might try them again to see if it's still possible to stay in combat the whole match (no hiding or using tactics other than "keep running") and still be the last mech to die.

Whenever I play the Jenner, 90% of players know to aim for the CT due to its fragility.

If you do decide to play the Jenner, you'll have to use hit and run tactics (some hiding) or you'll be toast. (Unless your an Oxide)

[SQW]

Well, they say they are buffing the LBX-10s so maybe ppl will start using that for anti-light defense.

I still maintain having a lance mate to cover you is the best defense. It's hardest when the lights are running perpendicular to you (like circle of death) but if you have two mechs, the light will end up running parallel to someone (at the apex). No even the God of ACH can dodge lasers when it is effectively standing still for that 1/3 second.

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 05 March 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

No.

It will never be a good time to do that.

Of course there is. I am not limited by conventional wisdom. However, as I am not influential to any balance changes of MWO, tis going to be a waste of breath to explain it in detail.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Monkey Lover, on 05 March 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

If they died any easier no one will play them. They're not going to fix this. After the laser hitreg improvement they had to quirk every light because they were dieing too fast.

Yup, cuz the mech with the lowest amount of hitpoints in a game where the norm is firing as many guns as you can unreasonably fit onto one mech and fire them all, all the time.

[Jolly Llama]

As a light pilot, I can tell you that the best defense against a light is not to get culled out of a group. You don't have to murderball up, just have one or two mechs with you. Also, knowing how to actually pilot your mech helps. Reverse turning into a light circling will allow you to bring your guns to target. Backing into a structure or landmass also helps a lot. Nerfing lights is not the answer to getting owned, learning to drive what you play is the key.

Edited by geodeath, 05 March 2016 - 11:33 PM.

[adamts01]

I don't think ping is an issue at all, not unless you're over 400. I couldn't get matches on the Oceanic server so I sucked it up and checked all servers and always aim exactly where I want to hit, and that's with 320-380 ping. If I miss a light it's almost always my fault. Some days I get some weird routing and am stuck with 450-500 ping and that's when stuff starts rubberbanding, so I make sure to use my fastest Locust and troll. Back in the day, you had to sweep with 1 laser till you got a red crosshair and then unload, not anymore. Hit-reg is one thing that I actually have to give PGI credit for.

[Moldur]

Ah, you're just getting to this thread? Let me catch you guys up with a quick summary:

It is my opinion that lights are too hard to kill.

It is my opinion that lights are easy to kill.

It is my opinion that there is nothing wrong with shooting lights.

[SplashDown]

Kaisha, on 05 March 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

I have a 6-core i7 with gtx970 running mid 20's ping (ie. my system/lag is fine), and there is a problem with hit regs on lights. There have been many times I've hit them dead center and had zero damage register, other times I barely nick them and they blow apart. If bugs are the only thing keeping them alive then fix the bugs and buff the mechs. Its not soley a player skill or hardware/network issues; as the repeated 'git gud'/'bad ping' arguments have stated.

OK i see the problem you're talking about now and what you're describing isnt isolated to just light mechs its a bug that happens on all mechs from time to time...and it is being worked on....for some reason damage doesnt register when you hit any mech..not just lights...there are video's on youtube on the subject.

[MrMadguy]

I suggested it long time ago. But now I have even better suggestion, then just normalize size/speed ratio - PGI should normalize size/(speed + armor + firepower) ratio for all Light 'Mechs in order to remove their 25% unfair advantage. Intended balance: you have to sacrifice survivability, if you want to have more firepower. You shouldn't be able to bring invulnerable Light with Heavy-like firepower.

[dario03]

MrMadguy, on 06 March 2016 - 02:55 AM, said:

I suggested it long time ago. But now I have even better suggestion, then just normalize size/speed ratio - PGI should normalize size/(speed + armor + firepower) ratio for all Light 'Mechs in order to remove their 25% unfair advantage. Intended balance: you have to sacrifice survivability, if you want to have more firepower. You shouldn't be able to bring invulnerable Light with Heavy-like firepower.

What?

[MrMadguy]

dario03, on 06 March 2016 - 03:52 AM, said:

What?

It's ok to be small and fast, but only till the moment, when you bring 42 firepower with 450m range. Currently you can double the amount of your heatsinks for free. And this is wrong. If you want to bring such an amount of firepower - you should sacrifice something. Your engine for example. Or armor. Best way to force players to do it - to nerf engine DHS, so they'll have to equip external ones instead, i.e. they'll need to sacrifice slots/tonnage/survivability. Also it's logical, that 'Mech, that can bring more firepower and armor - should be bigger, cuz weapons and armor have some constant "density". It's just wrong, when Arctic Cheater can bring the same firepower, as my Firebrand, while being much smaller, faster and almost invulnerable.

Edited by MrMadguy, 06 March 2016 - 04:24 AM.

[PocketYoda]

As a light player i agree with this topic they are broken...

[SplashDown]

MrMadguy, on 06 March 2016 - 02:55 AM, said:

I suggested it long time ago. But now I have even better suggestion, then just normalize size/speed ratio - PGI should normalize size/(speed + armor + firepower) ratio for all Light 'Mechs in order to remove their 25% unfair advantage. Intended balance: you have to sacrifice survivability, if you want to have more firepower. You shouldn't be able to bring invulnerable Light with Heavy-like firepower.

you must be a mediocre assault player that gets rekt by lights because you clearly do not know what you're talking about.

Samial, on 06 March 2016 - 04:23 AM, said:

As a light player i agree with this topic they are broken...

somehow i dout that you are a light player making this statement becuz ur simply wrong in a massive way.
I play lights all day long and lights are prolly the hardest and imo most fun to play becuz of the lvl of attention ya have to have to play them properly...such as.....You have to be aware of your terrain..escape rout...speed...ur heat.(wich isnt hard to over heat in a light) you have to be able to aim ur weapons at high speed becuz if u slow down or stop ur dead..and be able to gtfo as soon as the situation turns against you...and you have to be aware of all these things every second of the match....its not like a heavy or an assault where you can take some hits..no no 1 good alpha and its babye leg..2 secs later its babye mech.
and then at the end of the match if you did a really fair job ur lucky if you break 400 damage..most matches end with 250 damage (have been some epic damage matches but few and far between)
So plz do not tell me lights are broken...you are clearly a troll

Edited by SplashDown, 06 March 2016 - 06:12 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

nehebkau, on 05 March 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

The people who complain about light hitreg obviously don't play them very often.

Well, to be fair I had lasers and PPCs passing through assault 'mechs last night doing no damage at all...

[Aetes Nakatomi]

Just because you found your build on Metamechs and the blurbs says it is the highest alpha possible for whatever chassis you are using does not mean it can instagib a light. Will it be good for a fatty sitting around like a chump? Yep, you will be the solo pwn mobile of doom. A light turns up, you're now a fat chump that runs hot and can focus fire on a single hardpoint any more. Thats right, the same thing people say about LRM's being damage spreading noob tubes? Thats what you are doing with your hitscsan lasers on a light.

Your laser vomit is hitscan, Lights have fast torso twist. Hitscan plus fast twist means that they can spread that damage over most of their mech (especially if they tap their JJ). The lights are not broken, do not have uber ping, you are bad and should feel bad for being bad.

I pop lights no problem, don't panic, use your ballistics, lead the target and shoot for the legs. Most of the time you either pop them quick or they realise very fast you can aim and they bail bloodied with a bruised ego.

[Aiden Skye]

Funny when ever I pilot my lights there are no Jesus hitboxes, and there seem to be no hit ref issues for my enemies. My ping is also usually around 19, guess I'm screwed!

[Cyborne Elemental]

Monpax and I tested this for about an hour in private matches, running in straight lines mech vs mech matched speed.

Any mech moving faster than 120kph starts to have warped and shrunken hitboxes, and the faster you start moving beyond 120, damage is reduced.

We tried it on the flat lowgrounds of Frozen city, with Commando, Spider, ACH, Wolfhound. every single one of them we set to move fast, damage barely registered on.

It was taking 200 damage worth of medlas to deal 30 damage to get through armor at full speed, seem silly?
because it is.

There is something pretty messed up with how the netcode is handling these high speeds and keeping correct damage calc.

Edited by Mister D, 06 March 2016 - 06:37 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Mister D, on 06 March 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

Monpax and I tested this for about an hour in private matches, running in straight lines mech vs mech matched speed.

Any mech moving faster than 120kph starts to have warped and shrunken hitboxes, and the faster you start moving beyond 120, damage is reduced.

We tried it on the flat lowgrounds of Frozen city, with Commando, Spider, ACH, Wolfhound. every single one of them we set to move fast, damage barely registered on.

It was taking 200 damage worth of medlas to deal 30 damage to get through armor at full speed, seem silly?
because it is.

There is something pretty messed up with how the netcode is handling these high speeds and keeping correct damage calc.

It's called quantization errors. As I heard in the past, server has only around 30 frames per second. 120kph - is 33.33mps or 1.11 meters per frame. Just imagine it! 1 meter of quantization error! Simple conclusion - don't allow, what your servers can't handle.

Quote

Russ Bullock posted:
Here is a brief story for you.

Hit detection a few months ago hits an all new high with the fixing of SRM's along with some bug fixes on laser duration and MG's - everything is great.

We switch data centers at the end of August and forum threads start appearing about poor laser hit registration even though our metrics say everything remains the same and we didn't adjust any of this game code.

Now for this patch we decide to lower the cap time on conquest, during testing we notice inconsistencies in how long it takes to capture. This is when a discovery is made that our servers were no longer running at 30 frames but some windows server default which is much lower.

This was corrected today during the downtime.

Although I have ZERO test data to confirm anything - it seems very logical that this lower server frame rate was effecting our hit registration. Hit detection along with HSR are VERY sensitive to this frame time. ( Neema's words not mine )

So I am hoping that those players who were reporting bad laser hit registration will now report the good news, that things seems all great on the hit detection front again.

Thanks for call it out. Fingers crossed.

Edited by MrMadguy, 06 March 2016 - 07:28 AM.

[4rcs1ne]

Samial, on 06 March 2016 - 04:23 AM, said:

As a light player i agree with this topic they are broken...

Why are you lumping all lights in the same categorie as the arctic cheetah or firestarter? Let me guess, you've probably never played the commando, jenner, panther,mist lynx, or kitfox. Please don't make sweeping generalizations until you've played those mechs.

Edited by Matt2496, 06 March 2016 - 08:39 AM.