67 replies to this topic

[Johny Rocket]

Podex, on 28 March 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

I absolutely agree. When running with a semi-coordinated team, a close support LRM boat can create total chaos. They may not get the kills or the damage, but they can make it exceptionally difficult for the target brawlers to fight. Distract and soften. I have used this tactic VERY effectively and have had teams win against insurmountable odds. Unfortunately, there are a lot of variables at play (#1 is being your teammates), so it's all a gamble.

Everyone wants to snipe and brawl. I'd welcome bigger incentives for AMS loading, ECM wielding, and scouting.

I was in a unit for a long time that never played together the leader just wanted to epeen having 250+ people in his unit and well good teams are top down. I tagged along with who ever I could or pugged, when you learn to do well in those conditions, working in a a coordinated team is a matter of the right fit. What I learned was to play balls to the walls aggressively. If I don't get half the scouting bonuses I know its time to turn it up.

Then I found the unit Im in. I rarely solo and we have multiple TS available and make good use of it most times. My opinion that is more important than weapons choices or particular mechs/strategy.

[SeaLabCaptn]

I heard a rumor that the third AMS would target the same missiles as the second AMS, making it a pointless waste of ammo.

1. Is this happening?
2. Source please?

[Moomtazz]

SeaLabCaptn, on 28 March 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

I heard a rumor that the third AMS would target the same missiles as the second AMS, making it a pointless waste of ammo.

1. Is this happening?
2. Source please?

Who knows? Who knows how effective 1,2, or 3 AMS actually are? How much damage are saving yourself and your team from when you take AMS? No one knows, and since AMS support is not rewarded in C-Bills, AMS continue to be under-used.

[Snuggles Time]

Things you can do with C-bills to reduce LRM damage taken:
1. Buy a Radar Deprivation Mod.
2. Run as much ECM as possible
3. Equip AMS

Things you can do for FREE to reduce LRM damage taken:
1. Use hard cover, ie stand behind buildings, rocks, and giant insect husks.
2. Never stand in the open
-sub note: when moving don't go over the top of things, rather around the side so you are harder to see.
3. Stay near mechs with ECM
4. If you are caught in the open and have LRM's incoming, run behind hard cover or to a team mate with ECM
5. Don't stand still, if they lose their lock the missiles will go to your last known location...don't be there when they land!!!!
6. Kill their tagging/narcing mech
7.*****MOST IMPORTANTLY***** If the other team is LRM heavy, you need to push them hard as a group. Sure one or two people will be damaged, but once you get under 180 meters they are practically weaponless.

Things you can do in SOLO que to reduce LRM damage taken:
1. Everything listed above
2. Get out of your assault mechs and into a Heavy or Medium. This isn't Mech warrior 4 you will need to speed to survive.

[Corrado]

atm running:

- SMN-Prime 2ams + ams overload, 4xSRM4+art.
- NOVA-D 3ams + ams overload + ams range + 4tons ams ammo, 5xMPL.
- Jester 2ams, 2xlpl 4xml

[Sader325]

Oxide 1440 Missiles 4 LRM 5 Chain Fire no artemis

Fired from 700 M away, nova in front of Direwolf

1145 - Dire Wolf Dead 4 missed volleys
980 - Dire dead 8 missed volleys 1 ams
420 - Dire Dead 4 misses 2 ams
0 missiles dire lives 3 ams


Archer 2340 9 LRM 5+A group fired in 3's @ 500ms spread.

Fired from 700 M away, nova in front of Direwolf

2145 left over no AMS Dire Dead
2070 left 1 AMS Dire Dead
1980 Left 2 AMS Dire Dead
1785 Left 3 AMS Dire Dead

[Clownwarlord]

The mechs that you normally see AMS on are mechs that can carry more than one. Even then AMS is still considered under powered when you figure it still cost 1.5 tons for one IS AMS and it still barely does anything to stop the rain. The only time AMS is worth something is when the entire team is packing them on because then you finally have enough to prevent the majority (still not all) of the rain.

[Corrado]

Snuggles Time, on 28 March 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

1. Use hard cover, ie stand behind buildings, rocks, and giant insect husks.

yes please when narced in polar nooblands.

[DovisKhan]

Tarogato, on 27 March 2016 - 10:41 PM, said:

You sir, have wayyyyy too much rear armour for your own good.

maybe he likes running away so he needs it


anything above 1-4 back armor is excessive

[Clownwarlord]

DovisKhan, on 29 March 2016 - 01:59 AM, said:

maybe he likes running away so he needs it


anything above 1-4 back armor is excessive

You are just some one asking for a light mech to find you.

[DovisKhan]

clownwarlord, on 29 March 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

You are just some one asking for a light mech to find you.

I'm usually within the first in the front line, so only friendlies at my back when I pilot a Heavy/Assault so it's not a problem, as for Lights I have a Locust and a Commando, Commando is one tough badass, haven't mastered it yet, the best match so far was ~700 dmg and 5 kills, 2 of which were solo

[L3mming2]

Sader325, on 28 March 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

Oxide 1440 Missiles 4 LRM 5 Chain Fire no artemis

Fired from 700 M away, nova in front of Direwolf

1145 - Dire Wolf Dead 4 missed volleys
980 - Dire dead 8 missed volleys 1 ams
420 - Dire Dead 4 misses 2 ams
0 missiles dire lives 3 ams


Archer 2340 9 LRM 5+A group fired in 3's @ 500ms spread.

Fired from 700 M away, nova in front of Direwolf

2145 left over no AMS Dire Dead
2070 left 1 AMS Dire Dead
1980 Left 2 AMS Dire Dead
1785 Left 3 AMS Dire Dead

if triple AMS wont stop a LRM5 boat then IMO whats the point... espesialy if there is usualy more then 1 missile boat and they dont all use lrm 5's ... IMO AMS needs to be 2x more effective to be worth it...

[DovisKhan]

L3mming2, on 29 March 2016 - 02:35 AM, said:

if triple AMS wont stop a LRM5 boat then IMO whats the point... espesialy if there is usualy more then 1 missile boat and they dont all use lrm 5's ... IMO AMS needs to be 2x more effective to be worth it...

Are you looking at the same test?


It did stop an LRM5 stream completely


The second test was 3X(3X5), meanin a 3X15 with better cooldown and better spread than regular 3XLRM15

And the missile count is vastly different, 195 vs 555


It's also not mentioned it he had AMS moduled, that could bump the missile count needed to 700 or even more.


If mere few tons can pretty much negate a dedicated 70 ton mech, that's way beyond useful, that's downright ridiculously effective.

Edited by DovisKhan, 29 March 2016 - 02:48 AM.

[L3mming2]

DovisKhan, on 29 March 2016 - 02:46 AM, said:

Are you looking at the same test?


It did stop an LRM5 stream completely


The second test was 3X(3X5), meanin a 3X15 with better cooldown and better spread than regular 3XLRM15

And the missile count is vastly different, 195 vs 555


It's also not mentioned it he had AMS moduled, that could bump the missile count needed to 700 or even more.


If mere few tons can pretty much negate a dedicated 70 ton mech, that's way beyond useful, that's downright ridiculously effective.

i would not describe 8,5 t as a few mere tons... and it wil only stop 1 lrm boat partialy, if there are 2 ore more it wont have anny effect on the other lrm boats.. a single lrm boat is not a problem, its the maches on polar with 4 ore more... on top of this lrm 5's are for AMS a best case senario, lrm 15's wont be affected as much..

to ilustrate to negate a single awesom lrm boat (4 x lrm15) you would need MORE then 12 AMS thats more then 30 t of AMS

Edited by L3mming2, 29 March 2016 - 03:01 AM.

[Pjwned]

I look forward to when more people bother using AMS so that they don't cry about LRMs so much, and then next time around that ECM might get nerfed (if it's ever considered again) then maybe the whiny crutchlord babies will realize they don't need overpowered jesus box ECM to defend against LRMs.

As for LRM boats crying about AMS, I think OP is being a little ridiculous.

[Galenit]

L3mming2, on 29 March 2016 - 02:56 AM, said:

i would not describe 8,5 t as a few mere tons... and it wil only stop 1 lrm boat partialy, if there are 2 ore more it wont have anny effect on the other lrm boats.. a single lrm boat is not a problem, its the maches on polar with 4 ore more... on top of this lrm 5's are for AMS a best case senario, lrm 15's wont be affected as much..

to ilustrate to negate a single awesom lrm boat (4 x lrm15) you would need MORE then 12 AMS thats more then 30 t of AMS

AMS reducues the damage of lrms, not negates it.
It would be balanced if you would need 28 tons of ams + ammo to totaly negate 28 tons of launchers + ammo.
And you moan that 18 tons of ams are not enough to negate 28 tons of launchers?

Dont know what ams you are mounting? The ones iam using costs 18 tons for 12 ams.
If you mean 30 tons if you count the ams-ammo into it, then you also need to take the lrm-ammo into it, making the 4x15 lrms not 28 tons but 40 tons (1 ton ammo for every 5 tubes).
Should we also take the dhs into it? This would make ams even better ...

You allready need only 4,5 tons of ams to negate 8 tons of launchers, do you think that is balanced?
I would gladly take 4,5 tons of equipment, if it would negate 8 tons of lasers !
But sometimes you allready just need 1,5 tons (ecm) to negate more then one lrm-mech ...

Some people on the forums just need some knowlegde about basic math and game-balancing theorys and stop their hypocrite whining.

Edited by Galenit, 29 March 2016 - 04:00 AM.

[DovisKhan]

L3mming2, on 29 March 2016 - 02:56 AM, said:

i would not describe 8,5 t as a few mere tons... and it wil only stop 1 lrm boat partialy, if there are 2 ore more it wont have anny effect on the other lrm boats.. a single lrm boat is not a problem, its the maches on polar with 4 ore more... on top of this lrm 5's are for AMS a best case senario, lrm 15's wont be affected as much..

to ilustrate to negate a single awesom lrm boat (4 x lrm15) you would need MORE then 12 AMS thats more then 30 t of AMS

Well there's plenty counters as is, ECM and Radar Deprivation make LRM boats work for their kills already, AMS is as good as it is

[Ryllen Kriel]

LRMs can be rough but I never hate them, it's just one of many tools in the toolbox. When Spider mechs first launched just after a major LRM buff, leveling them was like trying to pilot a firework with a short fuse coated in kerosene. Those were frustrating times, but still fun. In the words of Sam Elliot in The Big Lebowski "Sometimes you eat the bar and sometimes the bar.."..falls down on you like a swarm of a hundred missiles! There may be a paraphrase in there somewhere, but at least LRMs don't work on all maps, and it teaches you to use cover and stay close to your team.

[Corrado]

Galenit, on 29 March 2016 - 03:19 AM, said:

AMS reducues the damage of lrms, not negates it.
It would be balanced if you would need 28 tons of ams + ammo to totaly negate 28 tons of launchers + ammo.
And you moan that 18 tons of ams are not enough to negate 28 tons of launchers?
You allready need only 4,5 tons of ams to negate 8 tons of launchers, do you think that is balanced?

I would gladly take 8 tons of equipment if it would negate a 75 ton laser-vomit mech.
But sometimes you just need 1,5 tons to negate more then one lrm-mech ...

Some people on the forums just need some knowlegde about basic math and game-balancing theorys and stop their hypocrite whining.

negates a dedicated mech with 1000m range, beyond line of sight, homing type weapons. seriously, a narced mech can't get cover in a map like polar highlands.
Either carry also direct fire weapons, kill the 3AMS mech before you start raining down lrms, ask your team to kill the 3AMS mech or build a heavier lrm boat.

[DovisKhan]

Corrado, on 29 March 2016 - 04:52 AM, said:

negates a dedicated mech with 1000m range, beyond line of sight, homing type weapons. seriously, a narced mech can't get cover in a map like polar highlands.
Either carry also direct fire weapons, kill the 3AMS mech before you start raining down lrms, ask your team to kill the 3AMS mech or build a heavier lrm boat.

You're not getting it


AMS is a cost effective counter measure.


Like he said - if you could take a few tons of counter measures that would protect against lasers - you would. It also doesn't make sense at all that only one weapon is so hard countered by, not 1, not 2, but 3 measures (Radar derp, ECM, AMS), it would make sense to have counters to both lasers and ballistics as well.


What it would result in is tankier mechs and longer brawling, a thing that majority here are shouting for, because it does feel like all mechs fall too quick.