156 replies to this topic

[Jables McBarty]

Ed Steele, on 28 June 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

How is taking away a crutch / exploit a "hard nerf"? Light pilots in this thread keep telling everyone to "learn how to aim", but how about light pilots maybe learning how to pilot their Mech's without running into things?

Sigh. Well, since you clearly didn't read the whole thread, here's my answer to that:

Jables McBarty, on 27 June 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

I'm sorry, no.

Now all you would have (as a light pilot) is fast mediums running to strip off your leg armor. Get a IFR or CDA running at a LCT, all it takes is three hits (assuming max armor 16 + 8 HP) and you've lost a leg. Not to mention the PHX with MASC, or the SCR or ENF which can top 100 kph easily.

I agree that it's frustrating to be a stick and be constantly ramming your enemy for a measly .1-1 damage, but this mechanic would completely gimp lights.

And frankly, it would probably backfire on your slower assaults. Get 4 fast heavies to ram an assault twice each and it's nearly legged.

TBR max armor+HP = 96pts. Ram twice -20 = 76 hp

DWF max armor+HP = 126pts. Four TBRs ramming it twice -80 = 46hp.

---

These leg-humping lights OP qq threads baffle me given that they are nestled among the "TTK too short" threads.

TTK is never too short if you are getting killed by a leg humper with 1LPL. It takes forever to get legged by 1 LPL. If you are in an assault and are getting killed by the LCT-IV, it's because either:

a) You are bad at shooting, or
b ) You are bad at positioning, or
c) Both A and B.

My first kill this patch was a solo kill against a locust in my Highlander IIC.

Let me repeat that.

My first kill in this patch was a solo kill against a locust in my HGN-IIC.

I went PPC, PPC, UAC/5, Streaks. And somehow that combination of hits and misses solo killed it. In my assault.

Did I say my first kill? I meant the first kill of any game I played on this patch happened to be me, in a 90-ton assault, killing a locust, doing both the KMDD and the killing blow, possibly being the only one to do any damage to it at all.

Before I killed that locust, it was 0-0.

Afterwards, it was 1-0.

It can be done.

(In my assault)

If you have only high-mounted lasers, recognize that you can't be alone. Make sure you stay with the team and the team stays with you.

[L3mming2]

if i am cought in the open in a locust by a good pilot in a dual gauss mech you dont stand a chance... same with AC20s... yes lasers (do not the is pulse) can be spread and doged ...

[Jables McBarty]

Coolant, on 28 June 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

Here's the issue:

Let's say you have a moving Locust in your crosshairs and you unload, say, 4 ML. 4x5=20 damage - IF you can keep your lasers on it the whole time. Realistically though, you might be able to keep the lasers on it for 20% of the beam duration. 20% of 20 damage is 4 (.2 x 20). And, that 4 damage is spread over all the mech. Let's say, for example, over the torsos and an arm. So each section takes 1 point of damage. It doesn't matter that the Locust has so little armor if a single section takes 1 point of damage.

It also doesn't matter with ballistics or PPC's because the Locust can literally stop and start instantaneously for all intents and purposes. So you have to either guess, get lucky or read minds.

Don't think it's because you are a good pilot that you survive long in a locust. It is because of the small stature and movement quirks.

Yes and every time you pour a 72-point alpha into an IS XL side torso....

Coolant, on 28 June 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

Don't think it's because you are a good pilot

[Y E O N N E]

Coolant said:

Don't think it's because you are a good pilot that you survive long in a locust. It is because of the small stature and movement quirks.

How does me being able to take advantage of your poor aim make you anything other than a bad pilot?

Furthermore had you actually held the burn, it would be at least 20% into ONE component and the rest spread.

And ER PPC and AC and SRM work great against them. I have had zero problem with nigh unhittable Locusts. Sure - lose a few shootouts with them, but that's because the engagement conditions favored them and not me.

[NocturnalBeast]

Jables McBarty, on 28 June 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

Yes and every time you pour a 72-point alpha into an IS XL side torso....

Irrelevant, IS XL engines are working as Intended.

[badaa]

dont know if its been said yet but impact damage for lights it should stop face hugging

and if it doesnt they pay the price.

[NocturnalBeast]

badaa, on 28 June 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

dont know if its been said yet but impact damage for lights it should stop face hugging

and if it doesnt they pay the price.

Yes, some of us have been suggesting this.

[Autologus]

Coolant, on 28 June 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

Here's the issue:

Let's say you have a moving Locust in your crosshairs and you unload, say, 4 ML. 4x5=20 damage - IF you can keep your lasers on it the whole time. Realistically though, you might be able to keep the lasers on it for 20% of the beam duration. 20% of 20 damage is 4 (.2 x 20). And, that 4 damage is spread over all the mech. Let's say, for example, over the torsos and an arm. So each section takes 1 point of damage. It doesn't matter that the Locust has so little armor if a single section takes 1 point of damage.

It also doesn't matter with ballistics or PPC's because the Locust can literally stop and start instantaneously for all intents and purposes. So you have to either guess, get lucky or read minds.

Don't think it's because you are a good pilot that you survive long in a locust. It is because of the small stature and movement quirks.

Ok here is the issue with this, my side torso only has a maximum of 18 armor with 0 on the back, I assume you use MLs because of the weight and the range, because of those they have a longer burn time, if you want to do more damage in a shorter amount of time to my side torso or other parts use pulse lasers. "Oh but they weigh more and have less range" you cry, well I guess you have to make sacrifices sometimes just like I sacrifice armor for speed and agility. Alpha me with 42 from say a Blackjack 1x and I am more than likely toast.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, rock, paper, scissors. Learn a counter and use it, you may have to sacrifice some of your long range firepower to do it but that makes the mech a better all round mech anyway and will possibly help combat this Snipewarrior Online meta game.

[Maugged]

badaa, on 28 June 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

dont know if its been said yet but impact damage for lights it should stop face hugging

and if it doesnt they pay the price.

Ok if they remove the mobility quirks on the heavies and assaults.

[Jables McBarty]

Ed Steele, on 28 June 2016 - 03:07 PM, said:

Irrelevant, IS XL engines are working as Intended.

The point is: some 'mechs get 72 damage pinpoint alphas and lots of armor.

Others get fast movespeed and high agility.

It's called balance.

Your condescension is irrelevant.

badaa, on 28 June 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

dont know if its been said yet but impact damage for lights it should stop face hugging

and if it doesnt they pay the price.

Ed Steele, on 28 June 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

Yes, some of us have been suggesting this.

I answered this suggestion (for the second time!) literally 5 posts above yours.

mwomercs.com/forums/topic/231677-the-epic-locust-hate-thread-tears-and-salt-inside/page__st__125

I have yet to hear any counter-arguments to my rebuttal.




EDIT: for whatever reason, hyperlink wasn't showing up as clickable. Fixed.

Also: Please, please, PLEASE someone answer my rebuttal. I have a huge backstock of counter-rebuttals and I'm just itching for the opportunity to print them.

Edited by Jables McBarty, 28 June 2016 - 04:45 PM.

[NocturnalBeast]

Jables McBarty, on 28 June 2016 - 04:37 PM, said:

I answered this suggestion (for the second time!) literally 5 posts above yours.

mwomercs.com/forums/topic/231677-the-epic-locust-hate-thread-tears-and-salt-inside/page__st__125

I have yet to hear any counter-arguments to my rebuttal.

Unfortunately, you will have to wait until I get to a computer to reply line-by-line, because it is a pain to do on a cellphone.

[Jables McBarty]

Ed Steele, on 28 June 2016 - 04:44 PM, said:

Unfortunately, you will have to wait until I get to a computer to reply line-by-line, because it is a pain to do on a cellphone.

I look forward to it

[3xnihilo]

I am so sad that my little buddies are now invincible death bringers and I don't have any time to play them after all those hours spent running them when they were just mediocre or downright bad... I think I earned a round or two of Locust God mode.

[oldradagast]

Meh. Locusts are now playable vs. being laughable trash. Sometimes, they are a real threat and are deadly and annoying, but I'm good with that. Honestly, if a 20-ton mech can't at least be a fast pest, there's not much else it can do. Maybe their movement quirks are a bit much - time will tell - but I think that the sudden fragility of the 35 tonners + the proper scaling of the Locust is what's driving this, not the Locust's actually becoming super-stupidly powerful. They still die if you focus them down, take their legs, or get in a good hit with a big weapon.

[White Bear 84]

vocifer, on 27 June 2016 - 12:49 AM, said:

I'm glad the Locust is now this size. Perhaps people will learn to use communication...

I'll tell you one secret: 1 teammate is all you need to get that bug out of your leg. It doesn't really matter how fat is your Atlas if it's bottom is under cover.

Lols teamwork is so OP in pug land.

But yeah you are pretty much right.

[Samedi Wretch]

Wintersdark, on 28 June 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

There's a reason I (and others) said hostile co tact damage.

Note that we have friendly and hostile contact damage right now. It's minor, so only really noticeable for light pilots, but it exists.

And I'd argue if someone is standing right behind you, they deserve to get stepped on. Seriously. Those guys who ride up close behind teammates are the worst kind of teammates, the kind who deserve an alpha in the face for being jackasses.

But really, the request here is only hostile collision damage being a significant amount. Make it an equal amount to both parties - that way, you don't need to worry about "attacker/defender" confusion.

It's worse for a light at an assaults feet, but... Of course it is. Get close all you want, but beware of 100t of stomping steel.

Collision damage only being hostile is distasteful for a number of reasons to me. Plus, it reminds me of Tribes. Next people will complain about all team damage. Seriously just implement a reverse camera in the HUD and make all collisions hurt: opponent, team and environment.

Edited by samadhiVOID, 28 June 2016 - 08:31 PM.

[Wintersdark]

samadhiVOID, on 28 June 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

Collision damage only being hostile is distasteful for a number of reasons to me. Plus, it reminds me of Tribes. Next people will complain about all team damage. Seriously just implement a reverse camera in the HUD and make all collisions hurt: opponent, team and environment.

The engine doesn't support second viewports. We simply can't have a reverse camera until an engine upgrade, so that's off the table.

[BabyCakes666]

just up ram dmg so you can die from it

[Wintersdark]

Mystere, on 28 June 2016 - 01:22 PM, said:

As I said earlier in response to someone else, I disagree. Damage should either be equal or no damage at all to friend or foe alike.

I'm fine either way to be honest, but heavy friendly collision damage would lead to a world more rage in game than there is now.

It's not like friendly fire at all: you don't need to be firing at the start of the match (morons notwithstanding), but you do need to get moving. I'd be incredibly annoyed if those guys who start and immediately collide with you where doing real damage.

So, yeah, I can see both sides here.

[Lykaon]

Aleski, on 27 June 2016 - 04:06 AM, said:

HA HA HA

This thread is a joke : i don't count the number of quick play where i have been one shot in my Lolcust... I love this chassis, but if it's a threat for you, it's just that you're in a bad team or you are a bad player. Of course they can destroy an alone assault mech with one hand in the pant, but it's normal, they are quick.

Medium mech ? They eat you. Dual AC/20 or Gauss mech ? They one-shoted you. Laser boat ? If they aim well, they melt you. Bigger lights mech ? They outgunned you. SRM boat ? They sweep your legs. SSRM boat ? When you saw one, you're dead.

It's good that they have the speed, manoeuvrability and tiny size in order to compete !

And i'm in Tier 2, when maybe i will reach T1, it will be even tougher to take the Locust =)

That you don't see something is off is a joke. Since the resize my damage output has been increased by at least 50% and this is entirely because the smaller size does two things.

Smaller is harder to hit and smaller is more compact meaning damage naturally spreads easier maximizing armor performance against lasers.

When a Jenner is the size of an atlas from the waist down and a Locust is the size of the Atlas from the knee down on one leg there is something wrong. ( I do exaggerate but not by much)