869 replies to this topic

[MovinTarget]

We are getting back to what i said, again.

There are so many different impressipns of what fp should/should have been that somebody is going to underwhelmed.

PGI promised a hardmode endgame not a "welcome to battletech/mechwarrior"

More modes back when we had the population would have been the way to go. We also need fp to have different group size matches. This would reduce the queue times.

I am glad that you had a great game with 12 solos against an organized team. Is that the exception or the rule? Seems like most solo players don't experience that kind of good fortune often.

[MovinTarget]

I do find it more enjoyable as part of a group, being able to be on TS before and after. Sometime we are joking and loose on comms, sometime we are focusef and trying rise to the challenge. It helps knowing you have buddies that will cover you and vice versa.

I get that some people don't have friends in game, but you can find like-minded individuals if you put yourself out there..

[DaeKnight]

As one of the disenfranchised players you've all been referring about, I can give you my thoughts on the subject. My experience with faction play has been poor at best. Long waits are always the first obstacle I encounter and for what? To get lumped together with a bunch of random players even more clueless than myself? Dumped onto maps which are basically all the same, a few choke points. Which are plugged by Mechs specifically designed for that kind of warfare (because they need no other variation) Just to get ***** by a teams who think clubbing newbies is a sport? All for ZERO reward....because you have to win to be rewarded, but the odds of that are so low it isn't worth the time/effort.

Now let me fill you in on how to improve faction warfare. Stop catering to the old timers. Many people have made reference to not wanting to lose the entrenched players. Those are exactly the players you need to lose. Entrenched players bring no new funding to the game. They've bought all they're going to buy. Now they just sit back in their gold lined Mechs and club seals. The funding they no longer provide is the life blood of this game, yet the new players (this games real revenue source) cannot make any headway and leave. Now i know some off you are going to say that "we'll lose all our experienced players that way", and that's both yes and no. Players who value payouts above all else will of course leave. But you'll find that players who value the connections they've created will stay and those are the players most likely to be involved with developing new players anyway. Which is what you've implied you all want.

Something else which needs to happen is a reversal of the rewards system. The higher the odds are stacked against you the more you should be rewarded, not only per game but at the individual level. If a player who averages 200 damage a game smokes a player who averages 900 damage a game, they should be given more than a pat on the back. If you manage to destroy a generator or capture a base with all the enemy Mechs still on their feet you should be rewarded for that.
Reward players for overcoming, not for underwhelming.

[50 50]

Seems like some of the ideas are getting a bit lost or misconstrued in there guys.

I can completely understand @Omaha wanting his efforts as an individual to mean something in the grander scheme of Faction Play. I mean, we have the freelancer option there so there is a place and a discussion to be had.
I also understand the point that the winning of a planet is not really an achievement for the faction so there is no collective feeling of the faction doing better. The tagging of the planets is only and incentive for the units to compete against each other and in the end there could be much better options.
It was discussed in other areas of the forums about units being able to pay for installations on the planets. That same functionality could extend to freelancers as well. Afterall, the freelancers are the 'knights and barons' of the innersphere. Having holdings on a planet somewhere in one of the factions is another way to add a bit more belonging to the mode.
But, these are longer term goals that would be nice to have so it's something we can put some more thought and planning into to make it meaningful for units and freelancers.

The suggestion from the round table regarding the 'red light priority queue' idea could be misconstrued. However the intention of the idea was to try and get large groups (typically but not necessarily units) to face each other instead of random collections of solo players/freelancers.

There is a lot I would like to see done with the mode that I believe would make it infinitely more enjoyable and appeal to both the individual player as well as mean something solid to big groups, units and ultimately the factions.
But, they are longer term goals to work towards.

[Wyattorc]

Faction warfare suggestions
Grab some popcorn and a drink because this is going to be a long one!

A little bit of background on me just to show that I'm not a "noob" and have some experience with the game and primarily with Faction Warfare. I have been playing on and off since Dec on 2014. When units came out I joined HHOD for a short time, then moved to SRoT when FW came out. Shortly before phase 3 was launched I started playing with PKRL and after a few months moved to their unit. I made the move because SRoT was not consistently playing FW and PKRL was. Recently some members of PKRL decided to split off and we formed a new unit, D'C (Death and Company). We are a small unit of good players mainly focused on playing FW. I have mostly played IS in FW, but have some experience with Clan mechs.

Reduce buckets: have each attack phase during a 24 hr day (usually 3) be represented by a different front. Example from 12 am to 6 am Steiner vs JF, 6 am to 12 pm clan smoke J vs Marik, etc. That would allow units that are looking to play faction warfare to move into a faction that fits their availability to play the game. Any unit that has a wide play time (like the large units can be mercs and have access to all of the attack times. Even if FW has 2 fronts going at one time it would help focus the player base into a lot fewer buckets (queues/lines). Alliances could also be formed to help the IS factions that don’t have a clan boarder still fight. When a faction wins a planet the top 3 units that contributed get MC while it's controlled. 15 MC for the unit that helped the most, 10 MC for 2nd highest, and 5 MC for 3ed. This change would prevent the super big units from being the only units with tags on planets. No more merc rewards. Mercs instead get rep for the faction they are fighting for but at a greatly reduced rate compared to loyalists (2 or 3 times less). The benefits of being a merc would be variety, loyalists would be focused on one front and thus get more for that one specific faction reputation.

To help with 12 man comps stomping pugs, there should be a requirement that a player has to be in a unit. Have a minimum unit size of say 4 or 6 to prevent 1 man units, maybe have people sign a unit charter. If a unit drops below the minimum, then the unit is not disbanded but instead is suspended and can’t drop in FW until it hits the minimum. This will also help with unit jumping to get out of the penalty for leaving a faction. I know a lot of the solo people won't like this idea but FW is centered on working together like raiding in world of Warcraft, SWTOR, and other group based online games. If you want to play in group based content be a part of a group! This will push people into finding units and building relationships which will lead to better matches and a stronger community. As an aside, refining community building tools will help all aspects of the game. Like consolidation all home screen chat boxes (should always be able to see faction chat), have a general chat with different channels, for example: general chat channels 1-30. The more people talking to each other in the game the more relationships are formed. Along with that give units a recruitment tool in game. A place where a player with no unit can filter and find some units to apply to. Unit leads can create a simple description about the unit. For example, set unit play times, faction preference, play style (casual/we take anyone, competitive, hardcore). And a section to give a brief description of the unit. This would help new and old players alike find units, make friends, and help build the community as a whole.

We also need more maps. In a perfect world each attack slot on a planet would have a different map. Wouldn't that would be amazing?! Even if it's a modified version of one of the quick play maps for right now. Variety is the spice of life, it's a little boring to fight on the same maps over and over. It's also annoying to drop on the same exact map 3 or more time in one night.

Scouting and long Tom. I like scouting, it's a fun game mode but has its issues. Clan have a clear advantage, with the mode focusing on lights and mediums. Clan have a speed and firepower advantage that frankly IS can't compete against. On top of that when you add in pugs they have little to no chance even when fighting against clan pugs just because of the clan advantages. Streak 6 is just too powerful for what it is. It takes little to no skill to use effectively, especially on lights. I have been taken out in a light numerous times by one or 2 alphas from a crow boating Srm-s6s. Maybe the new heat draw system will fix the boating issue. But streaks do too much damage for the skill Lvl required to use them. I would like to see steaks act more like LRMS (because they have relatively the same skill level to use), drop down their damage to 1.5 or even 1 damage per missile instead of 2. The other option is to shorten the range. These changes would align it better with the skill required to use it. SRMs on the other hand require having to lead a target and you have to pay more in c-bills and tonnage to make them more efficient with ARTEMIS. When it comes to scouting bonuses I like combat ID and sensor sweep, they give a nice advantage but not something that's overwhelming or game breaking. Long Tom on the other hand just flat out makes the game not fun. When Long Tom is active people just stop dropping on a planet, which creates long queue times for the other faction. When it gets activated during a match or someone drops on a planet and didn't realize LT was active people leave, suicide, and just flat out give up. It's not fun for either side, ask Kcom, EVIL, MS, and any other unit that frequents FW. Here are some of my suggestions on what could be used as a replacement for LT:

• Dropship support for a specific duration. Would be awesome to defend the cannon by calling in a dropship to fire LLs for 20 secs then fly away. (Dropship MVP)
  
• Closer drop zones or a mobile drop so a lance can drop right into the middle of a fight.
  
• Faster drop times.
  
• Disable ALL consumables for the other team. No UAVs, cool shots, or strikes
  
• The ability to see what direction the other team is facing on the map (give me my arrow back! More of a joke but seriously...give me my arrow back! lol)
  
• longer drop timers for the team without LT (right now its 30 sec, maybe bump it up to 1 min)
  
• Take 5 to 10 mins off the match timer. Puts stress on the other team to attack quicker. They would have less time to set up and plan.
  
• extra tonnage for your drop deck, bump it up from 250 to 260/265 (one of my personal favorite suggestions)
  
• double amount of consumables or their effectiveness
  
• soooooo many options

MWO General Improvement Suggestions:
-show player unit tags on the website forums.
-when playing quick play /FW with your unit, have some mechanic that pays the unit (coffers) for playing together.
-show faction/quick play rankings on the website.
-show event progress in game.
-more achievements! Maybe even seasonal achievements.
-faction packs on steam. For example a Steiner (one or 2 for each faction) FW pack(s). It could come with 4 mechs, 1 of each weight class that's within the current drop weight requirements (250 tons) based on that factions preferred mechs and on lore (Atlas for Steiner!). This would give someone who's just starting the game a nice variety of mechs to start with for both FW, scouting, and quick play. Maybe also include some faction colors, paint pattern(s), and/or decal(s).
-bring back mech bays in the weekend events! Weekend events is what kept me coming back to the game for the first year. I probably would have quit when my friends stopped playing, but the weekend events kept bringing me back into the game.
-a website mech builder similar to smurfy (just buy smurfy already!)
-The next MWO tournament should be FW based. FW is in my opinion "endgame" content. It's where most of the competitive units play. It can be extremely close and heavily relies on teamwork and tactics. It can be decided by any of the 4 waves and I think would be much more entertaining than the current MWO championship. Here are some links to some of my units crazy/close FW matches (shameless plug): D'C vs 420, PKRL vs JFGG, PKRL vs (EK)
-FW seasons: set a start and end date 4-6 months), set rewards for loyalists, mercs, units and or factions based on the leaderboards.


If you have read through all of my ramblings, thank you! And please let me know what you think. The more we talk about the game the better the ideas we will come up with to help improve the game. See you on the battlefield, and remember, Dropship MVP!

-Wyattorc-

Edited by Wyattorc, 02 August 2016 - 10:23 PM.

[grayson marik]

Well, you could take over control on attack lanes with merc contracts being more specific like:
conquer planet <Planetname> until <Date, Time> and on the other hand hold planet <Planetname> until <Date,Time> --> with just this 2 contracts, you could bring in 2 to n merc units to fight over a planet, instead of randomly picking targets or even avoid playing good units to sloughter weak opponents on an other planet.

Same goes for Loyalist units, give them tasks like lets say, Liao forces: Raid Kathil and hold it for 6 hours in order to sabotage the mech factories there....
Reward: Davion forces cannot bring <Chassis Name> into FP Dropdecks for next <n> Days.
Task for Davion Forces: Defend Kathil against Liao Raiders or take it back within 6 hours to prevent damage to factories.
Reward: participating Davion Loyalist units get a discount on certein Davion Mechs for the next <n> Days or may bring +<n> tonns to Dropdecks against Liao for <n> Days...

Long story Short: bring in Lore Lore Lore and use it to provide meaning to battlefield actions!!!

Oh and 2.nd: Bring in the quick play maps for Recons and Raids -> and give them meaning too. Sabotage factories, capture supply caches.

And 3rd: let freelancers and small units have their share on with tasks like: Join Davion in defense of Kathil and get this <Reward> or: Support Liao in their attack on Kathil with intel collection to receive <Reward>

etc. etc. PGI needs to take control of the map by adding tasks for all career path's (and specific merc contracts) and needs to add Lore to make FP Battletech. Thats it. Along with small lore based pains and gains for successful / unsuccessful missions, that's where the hook up is.

[tokumboh]

Sonny Black, on 02 August 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

Thoughts?

I agree with what you said here

I only really play battle of tukayyid since there is enough players and enough variety of players to make it fun. My experience of FP otherwise is pretty poor very slow to get games, pretty hit and miss in terms of enjoyability, poor rewards and basically in the queue time plus game time you could have got more money have more fun and learnt more in QP than FP. The problem is that in taking the time invested only people whom are 'good' would play it say you last 5 minutes per game in QP this tends to equate to something less than 3-4 minutes per mech add the fact of transit time and the actual game is essentially about trading hits, and having meta builds make the level of exclusivity high when as you have identified it needs a broad base.

Now how to widen the appeal, well maybe the BoT offers something since it is numbers that make FP seem successful despite it flaws, then having FP be a special event rather than the bread and butter might make it worth doing, say making it a weekend style event, making the rewards much greater make more of the lore of the battles rather than the Planetary system warfare, there were many famous battles in the battletech universe we could take advantage of. it may allow better preparation of special maps for the battles for example. It seems that special events is the one thing that gets everyone playing.

[Omaha]

Ok, Im upset over how this has turned out, and I know I'm not the only one. But I won't leave here without giving some quick constructive fixes, and it's a way for even solo's loyalists like myself could enjoy the gameplay.

(I wanted to get into this mode because I am such a Fan of Jade Falcon, their Ideals, their agendas, there way of life, and of course clan tech. I feel though I pay for being a fan of a faction, without having a way to participate for that faction, or are being rewarded for my efforts in there.)

(Hoping this is a quick fixer, no idea what goes on behind the scenes related to these functions)

The Call to Arms

I really like the idea of knowing where to go while in other areas of the game, but this shouldn't be a call to everyone, it should be based on who your opponent will be. Sure the intended design behind the mode was a Hardcore endgame mode with no matchmaker. But that does not mean that it's just designed for the unit's only, or even formed organized teams. It is designed for organized play period. Every mode and every match has organized play. I'm in a situation where I am in an QUOTE Endgame UNQUOTE perspective. Yet choose to not abide by unit agendas, rules and or time restriction, or requirements. I like the idea of my fate is my own. I'm more about my Faction then a unit or even a team. But that does not mean I do not know how to play as one.

- Call to Arms should include more information, and also should only go out to the relevant people.
- Unit only Call to arms Actions So Units can fight the Units of Faction Warfare. Vice versa if your not in a Unit.

(Possibly not a quick fix) - Call to Arms in matches, being able to accept these while in matches reserving your spot, and filling up queues, also giving us something to do while games are formed.

Call to arms can be utilized to have separation of pugs and units. Or at least I hope. WITHOUT HAVING SEPARATE QUEUES. Make it a player choice to abuse themselves if they want. Not a trap. We need to know if there is a unit 12 man on the other side of that call to arms., or 6 man or whatever. Units however do not need this information because of easy wins and abuse of the system. I'm sure people will find ways to abuse anything. But there needs to be some middle ground here. So we all can share in the glory of our factions, or which factions pays the most cbills.

Units should receive different notifications when other units are on the other side, or just continue to play as they do. I do think it would be cool though that if I recieved a call to arms notification, that I can see oh hey it's an organized, and choose to help that planet.

I do not want to stop this way of organized Unit play myself. I want them to have the same love for the game as I do. I want everyone to play into the factions. The factions are what got me into Mechwarrior.

They absolutely need to find a way for everyone to get into this mode to get people playing it. Look how much the other queues of the game are being played now. Why is this? Because they have found a way to make it appeal to EVERYONE.(Not that it was as complex as community warfare.)

Edited by Omaha, 03 August 2016 - 02:25 AM.

[MrMasakari]

As I have said another thread, Russ and co talked about so called buckets and the only reason Buckets are even a problem is because the population is too low. It is too low because of many major issues, primarily the game mode itself. I see people sitting here saying "CW/FP Should be only for units as it is an endgame/hardcore hardmode for us."

Great you go play unit warfare, and then don't complain about low populations. This is a huge turnoff for your new blood, whether you want new members or new enemies/seals to club. A large part of the player base that wants to step up from QP to something a bit more meaningful. The problem is there is no step up, it is here is super casual game mode to, "Please don't queue up if you don't have A.B.C.D. Mastered mechs, knowledge of game mechanics, knowledge of what to do, a Mic, oh and a partner/wife, etc. The list goes on." The first reaction is either "I won't bother" or ignorance. There are basic features missing from the game which should not be missing in the first place. A singular chat box in the faction play window does not suffice for pugs to organise themselves.

"This game mode is made for unit play." This is a consistent theme I hear, and it is this singular mindset which will drive the CW population into the ground. The game mode needs to be accessible and fun for all, and it just isn't. There are threads upon threads of viable solutions that have already been well discussed on countless threads. A solution is not, discouraging pugs from playing with elitist circle jerking, "get on my level" talk and just scaring them away by making out like they are the scum of the game, when they actually make up a large bulk of the population who with a bit of time and encouragement, are no different than the organised units. Encourage pugs to play in something that is fun, get them in with a couple of guys who are cool, and they might start joining units because they actually enjoyed it.

Yes there should be a hard coded limit of matches played before you can enter to stop newbs (and derp alts) from playing without any real knowledge of builds/game play. Yes there needs to be an indepth tutorial that is a part of the game, explaining the compromises of fitting from QP/FP and the step up involved. The compromise of tonnage in the decks i.e.how if you drop an atlas you are only going to have so much tonnage left and how it will affect your team etc. and the changes in meta, from long range to short range, UACs and SRMS etc and so on but there is nothing.

People just sit here and say how atrocious pugs are and etc pushing them further away from this game mode and then wondering why it is a load of crap, and why they have to wait so long for a game. I can tell you buckets are a secondary problem caused by a much more serious issue. The frustrations from a pug player, are far higher than those who play in large organised groups. Games were made to be fun, when it isn't fun for whatever reason, people won't play it. In this case, its more the game mode and all of its intricacies. There needs to be a lot more encouragement and a bit less down talking.

Edit: And a lot of tweaks...

Edited by Artaire, 03 August 2016 - 03:23 AM.

[WANTED]

Tried FW now twice over the years. Both times quit it and I am in a unit. It's not Faction Warfare it's 90 percent hardcore unit mode. Just the truth and I am not good enough for that type of play. I really think PGI had a grand view and dream of FW. It's failed over and over overall, and I think they will divert most resources to esports ( that's where the hardcore units shine most and belong ) and quick play.

[Omaha]

I don't really think I'm at that level either. Which is another reason why I'm not unit focused. Or focused on teaming up with people, in an hardcore organized fashion. I'm down to win games and down to min/max my effectiveness on the battlefield even down to play as a team while I play. Which is why pickup groups are an attractive option to me.

Just wish there was a legitimate reason to be a fan of my faction in this game based on Battletech.

If you travel to http://mwomercs.com/game/faction-play you will see playing solo "Lonewolf" and as a unit as both in the description for "Faction Warfare"

So I don't agree with the mindset that it's for units only. Sure the goal in the long run may be to form up into a unit. But even their description of the mode it says solos or Lonewolves as they put it. Just wish there was more of a umm ?recognition? (Something visible to the player that makes the player feel liek they actually accomplished something) of my actions as a lonewolf, and rewards for it. Other then LP, cuz it's again only valuable if you do them for every faction. Also ways to put eachother against eachother (it's still "Hardcoremode" With no match maker) without adding a complete separate queue system for us lonewolves.

Which is why I'm thinking the call to arms could be utilized for this, and not just a general HELP for a planet. Also something needs to be done about giving the player something to do while queues are being filled, so suggested to have them show up some how in matches, so we could begin the queue process. But this I guess wouldnt be as much as a problem if population was higher, and the buckets were reduced.

Edited by Omaha, 03 August 2016 - 05:04 AM.

[quantaca]

i dont get why people would say that they are not good enough to join a unit ... ok the tier A and B comp units may be out of the question but even those unit tend to have a more casual side ... (with the exception of lords emp sjr eon who are dedicated comp units). most units dont have standards, yes some have crazy rules like loyalist clans doing trails and such, but there is a unit out there for every-one, and once you are in ... who knows maybe you find someone who can help you improve,

MS for instance has helped tons of players get better, a lot of people when they join us do 3-400 dmg in a FW game and after some time (and effort) they usually reach the 1K mark every game, granted part of that improvement is adjusting to unit play, because it does tend to be different, especially in organised groups like MS (or 228, KCOM, NS, ... ), a military oriented style like BWC is different again, and then there are more loosly organised groups (more bring what you like but please listen to the dropcaller if its not too much of a bother style) if you want it you can find it...

it also doesnt require any time, but yes most groups will try to organise stuff and they will be pleased if you can make those games but rarely are they a requirement, this tends to be an older community who understand that people have work and partners/kids to attend to, practice time and such is mostly reserved for comp players or those who want to become comp players.

seriously look around, try out a unit, try out a unit that does CW/FP drops (if there are any left that is even MS is low on population these days)

[Radkres]

Is it cost effective to continue to pour money and time into FP if only 3% of the total population play it? o.O Thats the part of me that Cringes after reading the numbers. Are we blowing smoke Hoping for more? o.O If Faction Play disappeared Would the 97% Care?

[MovinTarget]

I think the number is higher than 3% but thats not the point because there is a lot of coulda shoulda woulda that could be applied a timeline of what, 4 years?

My impression is that a few small changes could help this:

1) tug of war type progress bar instead of just X pie pieces.

2) scale battles to queue poplations (4v4, 8v8, 12v12) where the more plays involved, the more impact on the tug og war progress bar.

3) unit tags *might* stay, but anyone that helped win/keep the planet get a bonus at ceasefire commensurate to their impact (so if you were on 5 winning teams you'd get more than the guy that only got one win). Make it a pick between cbills, modest mc, gxp, or faction/merc rep. Pair this with #2 and you can get a reasonable # drops. Perhaps make it a "thank you" to the players not in the unit that got the planet.

I think all of these things could be reasonably implemented as they exist elsewhere in the game more or less and just need to be repurposed for FP. I would love to see smaller engagement options since that allows for smaller groups/units to operate with autonomy.

I would *love* to see 1v1 and 2v2 as well...

[Kin3ticX]

Im not a fan of the DOTA lane map design but this is more of a design flaw of knowing what map you will get and being able to switch.

I am less of a fan of the wide open giant maps I have seen people ask for. If you think the balance is bad now wait until you see what happens with unrelenting Gauss, ERPPC, and ERLL spam from every mech. This actually did happen when the thunderbolt 9s had a -50% heat quirk. At least with the gates and chokepoints you have some opportunity to use SRMs and such.

[JaxRiot]

Ibrandul Mike, on 02 August 2016 - 04:11 PM, said:

Not every PUG match is a slaughter. Not every solo drop is a bad experience. Some people here make it sound like that....

You all should know that there are full team (not unit!) drops and PUGs. Nothing in between. You either have your 12 (4 for scouting) or it is a PUG. For all that use the acronym and don't know what it means: pick up group.
Can someone explain to me why a unit has by default to be better than a group of friends which might even train together? I am not saying that the group in a unit might not be preferable, because they could achieve the TAG and therefore you could see what they are doing.
I don't say there are no problems. There are more than enough. One of the most problematic is the lack of definitions. Why? Because 10 people mean 11 different things with the same words. There is no way to find a solution that way. Another one is the groupings...
MERCs vs. Loyalists vs. Freelancer
Solo vs. Group vs. Unit (yes there are 3 groups)
Lore vs. Playability vs. Technically achieveable
Long Term vs. Short Term.
Long Tom vs. The Rest (sorry, had to be)

I like FP. But not all the time. Not every drop. Not the wait times (more or less). What I don't like is the talking against each other instead of with each other. And yes to a certain degree I do the same with this post...

Theres not really any problems with the definitions.

There are Premades (Units/Groups) and then there are Pugs (a collection of Random people)

Not every match against a Premade ends in tears, but the vast majority do.

Which makes the overall game experience for the more casual player very poor. Which results in a game mode population like we have now.

And before people start throwing out the who "All they had to do was use Teamwork" crap.. Yeah.. Like thats never been tried before.

Those silly Puggles. Theyve just been doing it wrong this whole time!

The truth is that it is very hard to mix Pug play and Premade Play. It doesnt work.

It has been proven in the past when Premades were allowed to drop in QP, that ended up in the seperate ques, and its being proven again in FP.

If FP is going to continue to be primarily for Premade (group/Unit play) then thats fine. They can have it, and I am glad for them. But expect the Pugs to Primarily avoid it.

And it wont hurt the Puggles too much. They seem to be getting along just fine without FP. But I wonder how well FP will do without the Puggls.

Chances are FP is going to have to be downsized drastically to reflect the actual number of the population that participates in it.

Edited by JaxRiot, 03 August 2016 - 10:35 AM.

[Jables McBarty]

MovinTarget, on 02 August 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

It comes from everyone feeling burnt and many wanting to point the finger at some other group.

TBH I don't recall CW ever really being advertised as solo-friendly. The original concept (FWIW) seemed to be catered towards teams (not necessarily units). Feel free to cite any references from back in the early days to state otherwise but this just circles back to what I have said:
...
All these things are more likely if you are willing to group up, coordinate, and listen to the DC.

Again many refuse to do this, and they have their reasons, but just like those who try to play the game with a console-type controller... you made your own bed.

Here's a lore perspective: The enemy has just landed, will your government send 12 random dudes to defend against them? How would that turn out?

Yes, they need a mode for solo players, perhaps a 1 v 1 mode, but if it is hard to get 12 solo players to play nice in QP, how can you expect it work in FW?

Honestly so much of the so-called "PUG problems" (seal clubbing, herding cats, etc.) could be solved or heavily mitigated by better lobby communication and grouping. Being able to match up dropdecks or discuss strategy outside the 1-minute window you have after the 12 pilots "transfer" to your group can do wonders.

Here's some quick fixes and expansions that would make Pugging more effective:
-Show all of the players that are currently in the Faction Play lobby for your faction.
-Include people currently in a queue waiting for a team and people just at the lobby ("Inner Sphere Home") level.
-Allow all these people to communicate with each other, at the faction level, queue level, planet level, and via personal messages (that don't require friending).
-Allow players in queues to view the Inner Sphere homescreen and other queue numbers.
-Allow all players in the FP lobby and queues to form groups on-the-fly

Pretty basic UI and communication changes that will allow PUGs to coordinate their drops and find matches faster.

Because PUGging isn't inherently bad, and PUGs aren't inherently bad. It's just that they are thrown together so quickly whereas units have a lot of time to prepare.

Besides, it is clear that a large segment of the population favors pick-up play over unit play, so if PGI wants to make FP a success, they need to engage them.

E.g.,

Ibrandul Mike, on 02 August 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

Please just stop saying that 12 random Players can't play together. My most accomplishing drop so far was with a complete PUG against an 8 man + solos. It was so accomplishing because we won clearly. The players in the PUG were mostly unit members. But not 2 people of the same unit. But we played together as a group. And yes it was that way only one time. But it still shows me that it is possible.

DaeKnight, on 02 August 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

Now let me fill you in on how to improve faction warfare. Stop catering to the old timers. Many people have made reference to not wanting to lose the entrenched players. Those are exactly the players you need to lose. Entrenched players bring no new funding to the game.

Artaire, on 03 August 2016 - 03:20 AM, said:

I see people sitting here saying "CW/FP Should be only for units as it is an endgame/hardcore hardmode for us."

Great you go play unit warfare, and then don't complain about low populations. This is a huge turnoff for your new blood, whether you want new members or new enemies/seals to club.

"This game mode is made for unit play." This is a consistent theme I hear, and it is this singular mindset which will drive the CW population into the ground. The game mode needs to be accessible and fun for all, and it just isn't.

I think we PGI needs to start distinguishing between Unit Play and Group Play, if not as (blech) buckets at least as game concepts.

The game is focused on teamwork, and PUGs will work together, when given the chance. There are some incorrigibles and some trolls, but on the whole, I've had overwhelmingly positive experiences when 2 or more people have comms. Everyone else naturally goes along because they want to win--and winning takes teamwork.

Emphasize "Group Play" at the faction (not unit) level. Implement the faction-level communication tools that I suggested above and PUGs will be able to create their own ad hoc groups--and maybe after positive group-oriented experiences they will be motivated to move into more dedicated unit play.

The problem with focusing on "Unit Play" is that it involves in 99% of the cases at least some out-of-game effort, be that posting on the Recruitment Threads, finding a message board, or logging into a TS server. For this reason alone I contend that units are meaningless--the same could be accomplished via Friend Lists without tags. And what's more, the unit itself creates a perceived social obligation that many players simply don't want to commit to.

"Unit Play" as currently implemented in FP will never appeal to the masses of new players, those who joined post-"beta" and post-FP rollout. And when these players encounter FP, they expect (reasonably in my book) that they should be able to engage with it as solos. They do not want to join units for whatever reasons, and that fact alone should be enough for PGI to change FP to accommodate (if not cater to) this population.

And unit-based players who want to see FP succeed should encourage PGI to do this, as I would think the more players in the game, the more in FP, the more that are willing to join a unit.

(Of course all this should be accompanied by fundamentally more interesting gameplay)

TL;DR: PUGs use teamwork when given the tools to communicate and organize. Creating faction-level tools will improve the PUGging experience. Cater to solos, replace Unit-centric focus with Faction-centric focus. Units are meaningless except as an effective means of extending your Friend List.

[Jables McBarty]

Jables McBarty, on 03 August 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

Honestly so much of the so-called "PUG problems" (seal clubbing, herding cats, etc.) could be solved or heavily mitigated by better lobby communication and grouping. Being able to match up dropdecks or discuss strategy outside the 1-minute window you have after the 12 pilots "transfer" to your group can do wonders.

Here's some quick fixes and expansions that would make Pugging more effective:
-Show all of the players that are currently in the Faction Play lobby for your faction.
-Include people currently in a queue waiting for a team and people just at the lobby ("Inner Sphere Home") level.
-Allow all these people to communicate with each other, at the faction level, queue level, planet level, and via personal messages (that don't require friending).
-Allow players in queues to view the Inner Sphere homescreen and other queue numbers.
-Allow all players in the FP lobby and queues to form groups on-the-fly

I've been reflecting on this, and it occurs to me that these types of tools would likely have made the "bucket" changes from Phase 3 irrelevant.

Conjectural Scenario:

PUG Jables enters the Clan Ghost Bear Faction Play Lobby. He sees that there are 75 other Ghost Bears that are "milling about" either looking for teams or engaging in banter.

He sees some solos that he knows have created a group named "PUG Attackers." From the name of the group he knows it will be primarily PUGs, and will be an Invasion-Attack team. From the list of solos he knows that he won't be the leader--a good thing since he's still learning the ins and outs of FP.

PUG Jables joins "PUG Attackers," chats with the solos--some he recognizes, some total strangers--to coordinate dropdecks. They agree on taking ACHs first wave. Other solos and a 2-man trickle in, then they sit at 8 members for a few minutes, then decide to merge with a 4-man from CGBI. The PUG/CGBI 12-man discusses which planet to attack then joins that queue.

Compare Reality:

PUG Jables enters the CGB Faction Play Lobby. He sees a half-dozen planet queues. He scrutinizes them to see which are most likely to get him a match in less than 20 minutes. He hops on a queue with 23 people.

The queue sits at 1 person for five minutes--PUG Jables must have been the 25th.

He returns to the Inner Sphere Home, scrutinizes the queues again, finds one at 7, joins it. Looks like a 2-man and 5 (now 6) solos. He sits for five minutes, slowly it gets up to 12.

After five minutes of "Transferring Pilot Data...." the queue resets to 10 (the 2-man got picked up by a 10-man and rushed to the front). PUG Jables waits three more minutes to get back to 12. The pilot names transfer instantly this time, and because there is opposition, they have a 1-minute drop timer. He recognizes one name from his list of teammates. He throws a "o7" into the chat, but no response because everyone else has quite reasonably fallen asleep.

As the timer reaches 0:00, Jables prays that at least one out of the other 11 has a better idea of how to win than he does. He can point and shoot, but he doesn't know the nuances of the game well enough to lead a team to victory.

Analysis:

Group formation

• In the reality scenario, groups are formed synthetically--by the "First x PUGs to attack this planet." It's not clear if PUG Jables is the only person scrutinizing the numbers on the screen, or one of fifty, each person privately weighing his odds in a cruel MWO prisoner's dilemma.
  
• In the conjectural scenario, groups are formed organically by the players, who then choose where to drop. They can see exactly how many are in queues, and how many are waiting outside of queues, looking for a group.
  
• In the conjectural scenario, once they have 12 they can hop on a queue and instantly drop. Because they can communicate with others, the prisoner's dilemma of trying to be the 12th in a queue essentially disappears, reducing the need to reduce buckets.

Faction Camaraderie

• In the conjectural scenario, faction camaraderie is built by seeing the same people in lobbies time and again. Players can communicate and strategize within the game interface but outside of matches, regardless of unit membership or non-membership.
  
• In the reality scenario, there is limited in-game camaraderie. PUG Jables only ever sees other faction members in game, which limits his pool to 11 people at a time. If he wants to communicate or strategize, he has to log onto the forums, find a genial group, install TS, and hop onto their server.

Strategery

• In the conjectural scenario, both PUGs and pre-mades can spend time balancing out drop-decks and determining in-game tactics.
  
• In the conjectural scenario, PUGs and smaller pre-mades can self-regulate how many noobs and solos are in a group. A faction focusing on growing its playerbase can ensure that each 4-man premade takes on at least 4 solos or 4 noobs.

Edited by Jables McBarty, 03 August 2016 - 11:28 AM.

[AnTi90d]

quantaca, on 03 August 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:

seriously look around, try out a unit, try out a unit that does CW/FP drops (if there are any left that is even MS is low on population these days)

I think my faction has zero units left.. For the past week and a half, the only people that have been on our faction TS server have been people wanting to PUG together for quickplay.. and even that is a rare occurrence.

When I login to play MWO, I sign in to our TS.. and I'm usually the only one there. After four hours of playing and no one joining our TS.. I get a little sad and lonely and leave to go play other games.

I'm honestly surprised that a developer could kill enthusiasm for a game in such a short amount of time. Everything was fine back when I started in February.. and now everything is crap.

[metallio]

Quote

the unit itself creates a perceived social obligation that many players simply don't want to commit to

Yep. It's a real thing too. Most of us have played games online before, MMOs and the like, and been in guilds. We don't want to have to spend that much time with people to play this game. One of the things I like about it is the ability to hop on and blast away without having to engage a dozen or more people in banter. I also play at work a lot and it's utterly impossible to be social, play stompy robots, and be a functional employee at the same time. No sound, ever, at work and not much at home when the kid's asleep. Throw in wanting to run Netflix or w/e on the second monitor while shooting at things and there's simply no way to organize without giving up something I want. I'm willing to make some adjustments there, but when there's zero return unless I completely change my ways I'm not interested. I may have gotten old, but there are plenty of younger folks who play games the same way and it shows in the population. There is simply not enough social aspect to this game to support guilds(units) on a normative level. Forcing it on people is unpleasant and obviously hasn't worked out very well.

Edited by metallio, 03 August 2016 - 02:22 PM.