53 replies to this topic

[Steel McLongshaft]

Greetings fellow mechwarriors,

I am a relatively new player to MWO and after spending some time playing with mediums, I am currently looking at playing a heavy.

My question is to the more experienced players out there is are there any particular heavy mechs/variants that should be avoided?

[Chryckan]

The rule in MWO is that there are no bad mech, only bad pilots.
Mwo is actually surprisingly balanced for a game the keep releasing new mechs at a fast rate. There is certainly none of the shiny new = best syndrome that's common in most games that regularly adds content.

So while the are some heavies that are in the top of the current meta, no mech is really bad enough to avoid. At least not in the quickplay queue and in lower tiers. Though the Dragon tends to come at the bottom of the pack. It's not bad though, it just have more issues than the other mechs.

[Bohxim]

If you're new to IS heavies.. try to pick one that's more mobile so you don't die so quickly to xl blow outs. Faster mechs tend to spread dmg better with the better twisting and going from cover to cover. Of course you can go for tankier slow ones. It's just that IS weapons are so heavy you generally have to pay for it in either speed or XL engines.
If you're inclined to try faster but less tanky mechs, warhammer and black Knights are top of the range IS heavies.
If you're inclined for slower but seriously tanky mechs, marauders and thunderbolts are boss. (Altho I tend to favor the thunderbolts due to that 10 tonnes difference and generally better mounts, but they are nearly pure laser vomits)
Once you're used to the IS heavies you can go more niche ones that fit various play styles. Like jagermech are great ballistics hill hampers but slow and doesn't tank anything or catapults who go decently fast and carry various weapon load outs.
Have more heavies than almost the rest of the mechs combined, and catapults and jagermech are my most played IS heavies. So I would endorse those

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Steel McLongshaft, on 24 July 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

"..." are there any particular heavy mechs/variants that should be avoided?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: It depends on your favorite playstyle, tell us how you like to play and we can point out chassies and variants which are particular good at it and also chassies and variants which you should avoid considering the playstyle you're aiming for.

[Audacious Aubergine]

People could argue to avoid the Cataphract, but personally I agree with the others in that a mech being "bad" is never a reason to avoid it. If you ask me, the vulnerable profile and low arm mounts of the Cataphract are good for teaching you how to position yourself better. But them I'm a little bit on the whacky side, sooo

[ice trey]

Hmm.

Well, my first recommendation is not to chase the quirks. That road leads to Butthurt. Just look at all the posts about the Kodiak in General Discussion from players who expected Pay 2 Win to be permanent and not go out the window the moment that the mech was available for C-bills.

I like sticking to stuff that's canon to my faction, but I recognise not everyone does.

The Dragon is kind of frowned upon these days. They've always been known for having a huge CT, but the little popularity they had took a big dip when they lost the huge AC5 quirks they used to have. I still enjoy using them, but if power gaming is your goal, look elsewhere.

The Grasshopper is in a similar boat. Lots of people gripe about it's size.

The Quickdraw is another mech that doesn't see a whole lot of love. I still enjoy using them, but at 60 tons with a big engine and jump capability, they're more like a 55 ton medium than anything else. Might be too samey for you?

The Archer got a lot of players' ire. The Hero is underwhelming in spite of the ECM point, and though it makes a better missile boat than the Catapult, the points system is set up in such a way that when you start LRMing another target, the first thought going through players minds isn't "I'm getting helped by my teammates" but rather "WTF Kill-stealing Expletive Expletive". While I do think that every player should have at least one LRM-boat handy, they do ride on the help of the rest of your team, and the current meta is now crawling with ECM mechs, especially on the Clan side with the Arctic Cheetah and Hellbringer.

Players used to say the Catapult was garbage, but it recently had a resize. I enjoyed them, but being one of the founders' mechs, I played through them ages ago. Every now and again I pull out my 2K Catapult for CW matches, and I think it works nicely as a PPC sniper, but... eh. Take what I say with a grain of salt.

Also the Cataphract? Up until recently, the Phract was treated like the bees knees. It was a beast for ballistics that many players fielded. Now that the Marauder is in the game, though, everyone is calling it garbage now? I don't know.

The Orion was the opposite. Up until recently, everyone was calling it garbage. Now I don't hear them singing it's praises, but it does crop up more often than it used to.

[Steel McLongshaft]

Thank you all who responded to the thread. In regards to your response Toha Heavy Industries, I am looking for a mech that would have somewhat of a balance between long-range capability and medium-range punch for brawling without relying on one type of weapon class (ballistic, energy, etc.). Speed is not the most important element that I am looking for. In addition I don't really like missiles much.

[Bud Crue]

Steel McLongshaft, on 24 July 2016 - 05:18 AM, said:

Thank you all who responded to the thread. In regards to your response Toha Heavy Industries, I am looking for a mech that would have somewhat of a balance between long-range capability and medium-range punch for brawling without relying on one type of weapon class (ballistic, energy, etc.). Speed is not the most important element that I am looking for. In addition I don't really like missiles much.

Avoiding missles...how about a Grasshopper? Particularly the 5P, excellent and meets your criteria. Also the BK of course. For a bit more ballistic flavor in your brawling I would recommend the Marauder and Warhammer. I for one love the Cataphract but is low mounted arm weapons make is a challenge for newer players.

Edit, for Clans you really can't go wrong with an Ebon Jag, I don't play clans my self, but I rarely hear anything bad about the Jag.

Edited by Bud Crue, 24 July 2016 - 05:26 AM.

[Bespoke Cheese Cake]

Steel McLongshaft, on 24 July 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

Greetings fellow mechwarriors,

I am a relatively new player to MWO and after spending some time playing with mediums, I am currently looking at playing a heavy.

My question is to the more experienced players out there is are there any particular heavy mechs/variants that should be avoided?

I'll assume you mean avoided as a first heavy purchase and not avoided forever. In which case for InnerSphere I'd say avoid the following.

Dragon: It is a big boxy thing with a big nose and is generally outclassed in it's roles by other mechs.

Archer: Not a bad mech, but there are better options out there for a new player.

Cataphract: Oddly placed hardpoints and low slung arms.

I'll include some Clan heavies to avoid as well.

Summoner: Fixed Jump Jets stave the mech for tons, arms are low slung and good torso mounted hard points are minimal.

MadDog: Not a bad mech, However the Timberwolf, Hellbringer and Ebon Jag are better choices.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Steel McLongshaft, on 24 July 2016 - 05:18 AM, said:

Thank you all who responded to the thread. In regards to your response Toha Heavy Industries, I am looking for a mech that would have somewhat of a balance between long-range capability and medium-range punch for brawling without relying on one type of weapon class (ballistic, energy, etc.). Speed is not the most important element that I am looking for. In addition I don't really like missiles much.

Okay, then let's start from here.

What i get is

• Heavy-'mech range
  
• Suitable at all ranges
  
• mixed weapondry
  
• no missiles
  
• speed is negligible

First of, long-range and brawling are kinda at the opposites of the spectrum.


You can, of course, equip weapons for both gameplay-styles on one 'mech.
Such a loadout can do both but doesn't particular shines at both. That means, a dedicated long range sniper will out snip you (or better said, snip out parts of you, mainly your centertorso) while a dedicated brawler will obviously out brawl you.
Your key gameplay would be to snipe the brawler and to brawl the sniper.
Your have to play a range game with both kinds of opponents, which can be stressful. You practicular follow two gameplay styles at once where dedicated roles only follow one (stay away with a sniper, or get close with a brawler)

Generally, long-range weapondry is unsuited for brawling and brawling weapons are usually utterly useless at long-range.
There is one exception, tho. Autocannons, namely AC5, Ultra AC5, to a degree AC10 as well as Clan Ultra AC5, Ultra AC10, and to a lesser degree Gauss and Clan Gauss.

They are a bit more difficult to handle at range because they require you to lead your target, that means you have to predict the moment of impact, They are also rather heavy and ammuniton dependent (the ammo weights too).

On the bright side, they have high range, low heat, very good damage-output (Although, different from lasers, which have high initial damage, autocannons deliver more and more damage the longer they fire on target).

Considering what you want to play, i would say you should look out for heavies (and possible assaults too) which have at least 1 or 2+ high mounted ballistic hardpoints and a couple (4-6) energy hardpoints for backup lasers.


That would be:

Inner Sphere

Rifleman (i don't own a single one, so no build recommendation from my side)
Catapult (the K2 only) CPLT-K2
Jagermech (pretty much any variant with Ultra AC5s and medium lasers similar to this JM6-S)
Warhammer (hero'mech "Black Widow" and the 6R) WHM-6R/BLACK WIDOW WHM-6R WHM-6R BLACK WIDOW (you can replace large pulse with PPCs if you want to)
Marauder MAD-3R MAD-3R

To a lesser degree
Cataphract
Orion

Clans:

Summoner (works on any variant) SMN SMN SMN
Hellbringer (works on any variant) HBR HBR HBR
Ebon Jaguar (works on any variant) EBJ EBJ EBJ

To a lesser degree
Orion IIC ON1-IIC-C
Timber Wolf TBR similar to the other clan 'mechs above (they can kinda reverse it, using an array of lasers as main weapondry and a single autocannon in an arm as backup)

If you are interested in assaults you can look into

Mauler MAL-MX90
Banshee BNC-3E
Kodiak KDK-3 (not yet available for c-bills, can also run 2 UAC5 + 2 UAC10 or 2 LBX10 + 2 UAC10 with or without backup laser)


All mechs mentioned feature high mounted ballistics (which can be used with class 5 and 10 cannons at all ranges) and several energy hardpoints as backup.

There a tons and tons of more options and builds but i think you will have a good start with any of the 'mechs mentioned. You could also choose to run pure Autocannon builds.

You can also go for the classic midrange laservomit build which includes 2-3 large pulse/ large lasers + 3-4 medium lasers for IS Mechs such as this WHM-6D or 2 large pulse + 4 er medium for clan mechs such as this TBR-A.
They are particular strong in midrange and can denial any movement towards brawling range.

If i had to nail it down and limit your options, i would recommend warhammers and marauders for Inner Sphere and Ebon Jaguars and Hellbringer for Clans.

Stick with Ultra AC 5, AC5, Gauss + 4-6 medium laser (or 2 Large Pulse / (Er-)PPC) and Clan Ultra AC5, Ultra AC10, clan Gauss + 3-6 Er-Small, Er-Medium (or Large Pulse) (clans run hot, less is often more effective) and you should be good.

For every mech:

Fix armor (especially back armor) and ammunition to your liking.
Play them to their strong points, if you have high mounted weapons, peek over cover, not beside cover (and don't stand in the open unless you absolutely have to)
Once a mech is build, look at them in the mechlab and try to remember their shape, once ingame, try to utilize cover which only exposes what has to be exposed (your cockpit and the weapons you want to fire).

A JM6-S likes flat cover which it can peek over.
A TBR-A likes cover at a 45° angle and peeks sideways.
(bear with me for a moment, the forum doesn't like me adding links, i'll fix that asap)

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 24 July 2016 - 11:38 AM.

[Rock Roller]

I love my Thunderbolts. Very solid mech. My Jagger is my number 2 IS heavy. There are also some great buying guides on YouTube. Just an FYI.

[Steel Raven]

Thunderbolt driver myself, great mech!

Have had allot of success with the Marauder and Warhammer.

Really depends allot on style.

[Audacious Aubergine]

Steel McLongshaft, on 24 July 2016 - 05:18 AM, said:

Thank you all who responded to the thread. In regards to your response Toha Heavy Industries, I am looking for a mech that would have somewhat of a balance between long-range capability and medium-range punch for brawling without relying on one type of weapon class (ballistic, energy, etc.). Speed is not the most important element that I am looking for. In addition I don't really like missiles much.

Yup, I agree with whoever said the Rifleman. All but one variant can carry a balanced selection of ballistic primary weapons and secondary lasers for closer-in combat and/or when/if your ammo runs out. I only have experience with the -3N, -3C and hero mech (in other words, the three with ballistics)
The -3C is my long range potato shooter - 4 AC2s and 2 medium lasers. XL240 engine
-3N is the mid-ish range one - 2 AC5s and 4 small lasers as backup. STD 240 engine.
Legend Killer is best at short range - 2 LB-10X and 2 medium pulse lasers. The LB-10X has an oddly long maximum range too, but due to the spread of the pellets it's really best for scaring people from across the map. XL240 engine as well.
The mechs are also available for c-bills (except Legend Killer, which is 4500MC)

EDIT: Also, if you can afford to go a little heavier, the Marauder is also a good bet.

Edited by Audacious Aubergine, 24 July 2016 - 11:25 PM.

[The Basilisk]

Steel McLongshaft, on 24 July 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

Greetings fellow mechwarriors,

I am a relatively new player to MWO and after spending some time playing with mediums, I am currently looking at playing a heavy.

My question is to the more experienced players out there is are there any particular heavy mechs/variants that should be avoided?

The longterm answer would be: No, there are no mechs that are outright terrible in any way. Situational and sometimes a bit outdated yes but not useless.

The short term answer would be: Keep away from highly spezialized mechs.

- Archer: While LRMs, wich are his primary weapon, seem easy to use they are VERY difficult to master and of questionable use to your team. If you are not using LRMs there are simply too many other mechs that do either laser vomit or SRM spamming better than the Archer.

- Rifleman: Some say its a squishy Jager mech others say its a beefy Blackjack. Let me tell you its neither. Besides his main advantage ( high hardpoints and awsome arm elevation ) this mech has incredible potential for poking due to its high accell decell rates. Never the less you will die by one or two alphas from clan heavys or assaults you are a glass cannon.

- Dragon: While nominaly a heavy it plays more like a squishy medium. Its a highly spezialized harasser and flanker mech. Too weak for fire support, to poorly armored for frontline.

- Orion: The mini Atlas. 25T lighter than an Atlas but nearly all its downsides safe its size and speed. Orion can be a usefull mech in brawling situations and FW but its not easy to pilot him successfully in QP.

Steel McLongshaft, on 24 July 2016 - 05:18 AM, said:

Thank you all who responded to the thread. In regards to your response Toha Heavy Industries, I am looking for a mech that would have somewhat of a balance between long-range capability and medium-range punch for brawling without relying on one type of weapon class (ballistic, energy, etc.). Speed is not the most important element that I am looking for. In addition I don't really like missiles much.

There are three basic rules with the curent state of the game to design mech loadouts around:

• Focus on a range window or be unable to use most of of your weapons for half the time --> waste of tonnage
  
• Focus Fire requires similar weapons mechanic profiles. If you use too many different kinds of weapons you will tend to distribute damage or outright miss the target with half of your salvos. PPCs and ACs play well together. PPCs and Lasers not. SRMs and LBX are fitting, SRMs and Lasers not.
  
• Speed is life. If the question is more speed or an additional smal weapon, go for speed.

You see, mixed range armament and slow speed are two cardinal faults in mech design. Most of your team mates will go 70+ kph if you don't you will be left behind and in worst case be eaten by marauding lights. In the best case you will simply miss the right moment to commit to battle, or simply be outmaneuvered by your foes.

Edited by The Basilisk, 24 July 2016 - 11:57 PM.

[DrRedCoat]

Steel McLongshaft, on 24 July 2016 - 05:18 AM, said:

Thank you all who responded to the thread. In regards to your response Toha Heavy Industries, I am looking for a mech that would have somewhat of a balance between long-range capability and medium-range punch for brawling without relying on one type of weapon class (ballistic, energy, etc.). Speed is not the most important element that I am looking for. In addition I don't really like missiles much.

If I ever get into a heavy these days, it's either a Black Knight or a Rifleman. The Black Knight packs a punch and has good hitboxes. It's pretty easy to roll the damage across many components. It's a complete laser boat, though, if you're dead set against that.

The Rifleman is a little harder. It sees a lot of hate and indifference here on the forums but it's a blast. An XL is almost mandatory but its hitboxes aren't really made for it so I stack it with AC2s to keep at range with a couple back up medium lasers. You'll have to develop a different playstyle to make it work but I think it's worth it. You can regularly get high damage matches, which is great for cbill grinding, and the nature of AC2s makes this a good psychological weapon. Mastering the AC2s will let you control firing lanes. Some will panic and miss shots and many will back up entirely when faced with that cockpit shake. You're playing a different game when you run a Rifleman and I love it. Since you're still relatively new, I wouldn't blame you if that's not what you want to do but I never pass up a chance to endorse it.

[mogs01gt]

The issue with IS heavies is that the good ones are really good, Marauder and Black Knight, while the other ones are all a bit mediocre to bad. So it becomes preference at that point.

[S_T_R_A_N_G_E]

Best Beginner Heavy: Thunderbolts - all can be run with with either XL or standard engines
Best Overall Heavy: Warhammer - best builds require expensive XL engines, but a versatile platform
Most Versatile Heavy: Jaegers - they have good mount points and can do lots of different things, can run XL or standard
Toughest Heavy: Cataphracts - these are a bit outdated due to hard points, but they are versatile and take a beating

[LT. HARDCASE]

You absolutely should avoid the IS Orions.

[Ghostrider0067]

Dedicated 'Phract pilot here and have nothing but praise for them (though I have a passion for House Liao), being a very durable and capable mech if you take the time to properly learn it. It can be set up in a number of ways and despite being somewhat outmoded by the likes of the newer Marauder and Warhammer, it can still hold its own against them. The only real drawbacks are the low slung arms and the wide torso.

[Steel McLongshaft]

Thanks again for all the additional responses. It makes it hard due to varying opinions (as expected) but I think I'll settle for the Marauder.