131 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

So to make this short and sweet. The heat penalty system we have now, If you carry a certain number of weapons and fire them at once, you get a penalty. The new system, all weapons drain the energy bar and when you fire over capacity you get a heat penalty.

All those who are making it more complicated then it needs to be or implying that the old system was better cant seem to figure out that the new stytem works very similar to the old system. To be clear, the old system was boating a specific type of weapon for penalty, the new system is encasing all weapons under one category for a penalty.

"While the system may appear complex based on the amount of information in this post, the Energy Draw system is fairly simple at its core."

"Most weapons have a Weapon Energy Value. It is this value which determines how much Energy is drawn from the Energy Status Bar when the weapon is fired."( this mimics heat values)

"If you consume more Energy than you have available in your Energy Status Bar, the Critical Energy Indicator will light up to indicate that you have incurred a Heat Penalty. This Heat Penalty applies an additional .5 Heat for every point of Energy over which you have exceeded the Energy currently available in your Energy Status Bar."( the penalty system is nearly similar, the only different is that is is set to match alpha's and high rates of fire)

its not complicated and people are taking in either hypothetical, or basing information on the PTS which they know is FAR from being complete in terms of being a workable system, I repeat, the current PTS is not a final factor in the new system, even if some people are making it seem that way.

You don't need much in the way of core information than the old system which penalized boating a specific type(energy,missile,ballistic), to the new system which looks at all weapons has a whole.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 22 August 2016 - 11:47 AM.

[TLBFestus]

Is there a purpose behind your annoyingly large text?

Perhaps so older, poorly sighted people can read it?

Or does it make what you are trying to say seem more important/legitimate?

[RestosIII]

My current motto with the game right now?


I can just hope that they balance the power levels so that a Direwolf can fire its secondary armament without breaking the threshold.

[BLOOD WOLF]

TLBFestus, on 22 August 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

Is there a purpose behind your annoyingly large text?

Perhaps so older, poorly sighted people can read it?

Or does it make what you are trying to say seem more important/legitimate?

nah, i knew if i made a thread you would come trolling. Seems like I caught the fish.

[Oberost]

BLOOD WOLF, on 22 August 2016 - 11:47 AM, said:

So to make this short and sweet. The heat penalty system we have now, If you carry a certain number of weapons and fire them at once, you get a penalty. The new system, all weapons drain the energy bar and when you fire over capacity you get a heat penalty.

All those who are making it more complicated then it needs to be or implying that the old system was better cant seem to figure out that the new stytem works very similar to the old system. To be clear, the old system was boating a specific type of weapon for penalty, the new system is encasing all weapons under one category for a penalty.

"While the system may appear complex based on the amount of information in this post, the Energy Draw system is fairly simple at its core."

"Most weapons have a Weapon Energy Value. It is this value which determines how much Energy is drawn from the Energy Status Bar when the weapon is fired."( this mimics heat values)

"If you consume more Energy than you have available in your Energy Status Bar, the Critical Energy Indicator will light up to indicate that you have incurred a Heat Penalty. This Heat Penalty applies an additional .5 Heat for every point of Energy over which you have exceeded the Energy currently available in your Energy Status Bar."( the penalty system is nearly similar, the only different is that is is set to match alpha's and high rates of fire)

its not complicated and people are taking in either hypothetical, or basing information on the PTS which they know is FAR from being complete in terms of being a workable system, I repeat, the current PTS is not a final factor in the new system, even if some people are making it seem that way.

You don't need much in the way of core information than the old system which penalized boating a specific type(energy,missile,ballistic), to the new system which looks at all weapons has a whole.

5/10

Next time use capital letters, this way you'll be the ultimate attention *****...

[Spleenslitta]

I do understand why you got those huge letters. Many don't bother reading all of the first post before coming to a conclusion.
As a matter of fact most come to a conclusion from reading the thread title.

Anyhow.....
I've tried the new system and even if they managed to get the perfect energy bar limit and energy regen the Energy Draw system can only take it so far.
It has such small potential because it's so...plain. By plain i mean it doesn't do anything to encourage mixing weapon types or ranges.
In short it's just...boring.

Even if perfected it won't make MWO stand out from the crowd of games out there.
For MWO to stand out real effort is needed. Make it feel like you're piloting a giant stompy robot by giving us more to think about when we fight.
Not just one click our enemies to death.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 22 August 2016 - 12:50 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Good move big letters so the dumb ones can figure it out.

[Novakaine]

Comic Sans rulez allz.

[RestosIII]

Novakaine, on 22 August 2016 - 01:03 PM, said:

Comic Sans rulez allz.

[Bobzilla]

I just see it causing 2 meta mechs. One that can double alpha best, and one that can single alpha best. We'll see after tweaking tho.

[ArchSight]

Spleenslitta, on 22 August 2016 - 12:49 PM, said:

I do understand why you got those huge letters. Many don't bother reading all of the first post before coming to a conclusion.
As a matter of fact most come to a conclusion from reading the thread title.

Anyhow.....
I've tried the new system and even if they managed to get the perfect energy bar limit and energy regen the Energy Draw system can only take it so far.
It has such small potential because it's so...plain. By plain i mean it doesn't do anything to encourage mixing weapon types or ranges.
In short it's just...boring.

Even if perfected it won't make MWO stand out from the crowd of games out there.
For MWO to stand out real effort is needed. Make it feel like you're piloting a giant stompy robot by giving us more to think about when we fight.
Not just one click our enemies to death.

Splitting up fire groups does open up the chance to use other weapons that don't fire the same exact way to make accurate shots with. The mechs that come with mixed hard points encourage mix load outs as well. We have to basic three mech variants after all. The kinds of advantages that weapons offer is the main selling point of how they're used. The range of weapon engagement that a player wants is what makes a player want more of the same type of weapon or other weapons that can shoot at their desired range because it's simple to know what range their mech is best used at. A multi-ranged mech need to be used would have to be dictated by what kind of tactic the player is going to use. Mech build performance and hard locked hard points force me to do things like having low exposure top mounted hard points for long range weaponry to soften up armor and low mounted weaponry for finishing off targets that get close.

Why does encouraging mixing weapon types matter when the system is capping the amount of those weapons that can be fired through damage/energy in the alpha strike?

Edited by ArchSight, 22 August 2016 - 01:51 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

I was playing with text size and different font's. I can make it anyway I want.

[Spleenslitta]

ArchSight, on 22 August 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

Splitting up fire groups does open up the chance to use other weapons that don't fire the same exact way to make accurate shots with. The mechs that come with mixed hard points encourage mix load outs as well. We have to basic three mech variants after all. The range of weapon engagement that a player wants is what really makes a player want more of the same type of weapon or other weapons that can shoot at their desired range.

Why does encouraging mixing weapon types matter when the system is capping the amount of those weapons that can be fired through damage/energy in the alpha strike?

It matters simply because.
1- Don't you get tired of fighting the same builds over and over and over again?
2- Getting more mixed weapon type builds means extended TTK since mixed weapons tend to not hit the same spot all the time.
Yeah i know gauss and lasers hit pretty much the same spot but still...

3- It is closer to the lore and PGI did say they wanted to stay close to the lore. Remember those crazy builds the TT game had?

4- and this one is important. PGI survives on mech pack sales and such. Selling new mech packs to the current player base can only get them so much money.
But if they want new players they need to encourage more than one click builds. Make MWO stand out more.

5- Energy Draw has only 3 factors that can be adjusted.
- How much energy the different weapons draw.
- The rate of energy regeneration.
- Energy bar limit. In other words how much energy you can store.
In other words something more flashy is needed to once again....make MWO stand out more to draw more players.


6- We're supposed to pilot big robots but the mechanics are so oversimplified we might as well be playing Call of Duty.

7- One click killer builds mechs that makes several tonns of armor seem paperthin. Boring. Might as well play CoD.

8- Many MWO players pride themselves on their skills because MWO is harder to master than a regular FPS.
Imagine how much prouder and eager they would be to spend money on MWO if it was muuuch harder to master.

9- Harder to master means famous players get more renown for what they are capable of.
That is a big step forwards to ..... E Sports because the more amazing an E sport player is in comparison to an average Joe player the more people would watch.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I, also, chose to comment on font rather than post content.

OP, sorry, but anything not 11 Point Arial is unacceptable.

TL,DR: Trolls everywhere in this thread.

[Chuck Jager]

Well it really appears that the best way to upset the forum community is to try to ask for a little patience and not attack PGI so directly at this time.

So they now attack the OP for his fonts. It not like he had multiple weights for a sans serif fonts (not just bold and regular) like you would use in a formal typographic situation.

PS thank you for not going italic or comic sans

[Gas Guzzler]

Giving it a chance but I'm not going to be thrilled if we end up with a worse game.

[Spleenslitta]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 August 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

Giving it a chance but I'm not going to be thrilled if we end up with a worse game.

Feel the same way. I will try the second version of Energy Draw but i don't expect much.
There are two things PGI has to do to make me open my fat wallet again.
1- Make a type of system that makes mixed builds just as viable as boat builds.

2- Free for all Solaris. I want chaotic mayhem. Insanity. I don't want this holding hands and be a teamplayer kind of thing unless i'm in the mood for it.

Screw just one of these up and i'm gone. For good.
I've barelly touched MWO for about 2 years so i'm very much on the verge of quitting entirely.

[TKSax]

Because it always good to build on bad system. Ghost heat is a bad system. Global Ghost heat (energy draw) just builds on the bad foundation of ghost heat.

Energy Draw will not encourage mixed loads no matter what form it takes. There is no reason even in FW to take mixed load outs into the Queues. The gameplay is the problem.

I would love to see them ditch ghost heat, drop the double of heat capacity that double heat sinks go just double dissipation, set a heat cap of 30 and see what happens. This would be a great use of the PTS but I doubt PGI is going to do that. Becuase Energy Draw is another of Russ's pet Projects. However, I even doubt that would change the loadout because the gameplay lends no reason to take any kind of mixed/bracket build loadout.

I hate ghost heat, I will be severely disappointed if Energy Draw is implemented and instead of the build variety I see in the queues now (Ballistic, Lasers, Srms...) we end up with less variety than we have now. Becuase that will just mean change for the sake of change.

I eagerly await PTS 2.

[Steve Pryde]

We wouldn't need ghost heat or energy draw if we have a proper heat scale with penaltys like in previously mechwarrior games.

Energy draw is just a band aid 2.0.

Edited by Steve Pryde, 22 August 2016 - 02:28 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I would like someone to tell me how a "BattleTech Heat Scale" would punish someone for dispensing quad Gauss at once for a MASSIVE 4 heat.