96 replies to this topic

[MilitantMonk]

Since damage is persistent and you have to pay for repairs I'd assume that sometimes those heavies and assaults are just running up too much a bill to drive for every mission.

Technical Readout 3025 said it best:

Medium mechs are the workhorses of the House armies. When the heavies are waiting for the big push to happen, the assaults perhaps to valuable to even commit to the fight, and the light mechs running around trying to figure out what's going on it's the medium mechs that get the fighting done.

[Wolfgang Von Schmuck]

my .2 cents for what it's worth (maybe a little less than 2cents: it is mine after all...=P)

i use mediums one of two ways.

Method A
strip all the weapons and heatsinks out of the mech, so i have the most possible tonnage to work with. t
then max the armor and tweak so you have the most 'whole tons' that you can: other than armor, there really isn't anything you can do with .1 tons
next, mount the biggest, nastiest gun you can fit, and some extra ammo
if you feel you need MOAR DAKKA, you can reduce armor, speed, or (especially if you're mounting a stupid-huge AC) heatsinks

method B
same drill, strip the weapons/heatsinks, max armor to optimize weight
now, as we wont have straight access to clan tech, some of the most effectiv (IMO) setups aren't yet availabile for this method
four words: MISSILES. LOTS OF MISSILES. my personal favorite is a ****-ton of STREAK MRMs,though LRMs and a beagle probe (mostly for added lock-on speed) work well, and SRMs= MiniBrawlerMech. my favorite light mech in MW4 is a Jenner IIc with 3 SSRM6 launchers, and 4 ER medium lasers. (though it would still be fairly effective with non-clan weapons, the SSRMs are much easier to hit with full salvos on a moving target


with either setup, i use it (medium or light) as a fast assault: hit them REALLY hard, and either disappear before they can effectively engage you, or rinse lather and repeat until they go kadead. (cuz kaboom means no salvage =() obviously this works better when you can get the drop on a lone mech, and better on an assault than a heavy (slower and slower to turn, might get a 2nd or 3rd salvo in before they can bring weapons to bear)

add in the fact that damage is persistant and repairs expensive (though i REALLY hope they don't charge to mod mechs, that was something i really hated when i played MW2 Mercs) they will also be far more economical to run as your 'daily driver' mech.

[Thomas Covenant]

Mason Ventris, on 12 March 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

Mediums can fill multple roles.

Force Recon- generally they have decent enough speed to follow up on lighter mechs. Plus they have the firepower to make a an impact once the enemy is found(if that's the commanders game plan).

Quick Reaction Force- this plays to the same strengths. Decent speed and firepower will allow an able commander to have a very mobile force that he can use to either exploit an enemy's flank and rear or to help reinforce a weakened front.

Us Nintendo kids would say it sounds like mediums are the "Mario" of this game. The balanced choice.

Edited by Thomas Covenant, 12 March 2012 - 08:37 AM.

[DarkTreader]

I'm personally a huge fan of the Medium / Heavy bracket, as I feel they really embody the entire BT canon reason for having 'Mechs in the first place.

Light 'Mechs can easily be stomped by a handful of infantry with shoulder SRMs, and they (usually) have the firepower to demolish a piece of wet toilet paper, but that's about all. Assaults are slow, unwieldy, and driving them is like trying to make 200 kph hairpin turns in a dumptruck - just not a good idea at all. Sure, they have lots of firepower, but they're much more of a slow, crushing battle machine.

Mediums and Heavies should really be the core workhorses of any major company. As was stated, Mediums have the speed to keep up (mostly) with light scouts, and have enough firepower to hold their own against things in their weight class or +1 (+2 with a VERY good pilot). A swarm of mediums as a QRT to a degenerating situation is pretty terrifying, as they can rapidly choke off the tactical advantage that Assaults may have.

Heavies have the firepower and armor to hang with the big boys, and can pin down even Assaults with their firepower. They can make mincemeat out of Lights at range, can hold positions or attack like an Assault, and can provide Force Recon support for a mixed Scout lance.

All in all, I'd prefer taking a Medium out over an Assault any day of the week.

[Phros]

Some excellent replies in this thread, exactly the sort of discussion I was hoping for. For those not to sure about what I am on about. I am aware that the Medium is the workhorse in the fluff, I was just hoping that it was going to be the workhorse in the game, or at least very viable.

Hopefully we will get some info about things like like if there will be weight limits and things for deployments (how would this work with lone wolves? Will you end up with 50 johnny pubbies waiting an hour+ for a game in their Atlas whilst some dude in a Commando gets loads of game because an automatcher can fit his lighter mech into games a lot quicker. Thats of another thread though)

My hope is that the medium is the mech you go to for any role. Not the best at the job, but dependable and pound for pound a great team players choice.

[Aegis Kleais]

I see what you're saying. Though I'm ever a proponent that the pilot is what makes the threat, if the game doesn't have a medium mech properly balanced in the game, then the pilot has their hands tied. Though I know they won't, I'm hoping the community can be patient and respectful in conveying their concerns as the devs work out kinks and balance the game to the general concensus.

I mean, I love the Timber Wolf a lot, and in its own right, it's an amazing Mech (made even moreso by a great pilot), but you can't ask for balancing issues on a Mech when someone just wants it to be the all powerful chassis in the game.

Even if rolling with a Wolf, you don't go out there picking on 2+ mechs at a time because you feel your chassis can. You still take every tactical advantage you can. You still pull people off from the herd, hunt them and then strike when the opportunity presents itself.

By minimizing your handicaps and taking advantage of your strengths, you become a force multiplier on the field and earn a reputation that deems it.

[Mister Banzai]

Fast mediums with nasty up-close to midrange weapons have always been my favorite rides in every version of Mechwarrior that I have played. This is because the battlefield role I love the most is that of the harasser; disrupting lines of enemy snipers/arty/LRM boats. Adjustments to that kind of game play will have to be made, though, because of the no respawn issue. I could rack up a decent kill number doing this kind of thing, but my death count was always rather high, despite the fact that it contributed to over all team wins.
That said, I'm fairly confident that fast and heavily armed mediums forming into packs will be a force to be reckoned with in MWO.

Edited by Mister Banzai, 12 March 2012 - 11:06 AM.

[Seabear]

Mediums are the hammer with the heavy/asssuals serving as the anvil. The big guys serve the same function as the heavy infantry of ancient times - it anchors the line until the big push comes. Mediums are the heavy cavalry -dispurting formations and plans by their presence and movement, sweeping around the flanks while the enemy is pinned by the big boys. Cordination between the forces is necessary or the strengths of each will be wasted. Together, they are stronger than the sum of their parts. Hopefully, we will see a game structure that will let each class shine.

[Garth Erlam]

Mediums tend to be excellent counter-attack, skirmish units. They're faster than heavies and assaults, can fight off lights, and fit most roles fairly well. I use mediums primarily because I need the speed, but don't want to spare the power.

[TheRulesLawyer]

I like mediums when I want a quick mech that still packs enough firepower and staying power to be a credible threat. I see them mostly as flankers and rushing forward to take objectives or exploit holes that the scouts have identified. They'll probably be great in wolfpacks vs heavier mechs that wander off on their own.

[Dr Killinger]

DaZur, on 12 March 2012 - 06:03 AM, said:

Mediums finally are not the read-headed step-Mechs that we begrudgingly saddled up as we waited for the opportunity to move up to a heavy or and assault...

Garth Erlam, on 12 March 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

Mediums tend to be excellent counter-attack, skirmish units. They're faster than heavies and assaults, can fight off lights, and fit most roles fairly well. I use mediums primarily because I need the speed, but don't want to spare the power.

The thing is, the 2 mediums we currently have, the Centurion and the Hunchback, are no faster than heavies. I'm kind of in the same boat as the OP- why take a medium when a heavy would do? They're too slow for scouting, but are the same speed as heavies, except with less firepower and armor.

Maybe they'll have more slots for modules?

Edited by Dr.Killinger, 12 March 2012 - 12:48 PM.

[Morashtak]

I've always envisioned Mediums as the old WWI (Torpedo Boat) Destroyer types.

Torpedo Boats were quite a threat for their size so Torpedo Boat Destroyers, later shortened to just "Destroyer", were invented as a counter to protect the capitol ships (Cruisers and Battleships) in the squadron from harassment attacks. Of course, the Destroyer's role evolved throughout WWII and beyond to the jack-of-all-trades role it currently serves now.

As the BTU Lights do not have the equivalent of a torpedo themselves that with one well aimed shot can cripple or "sink" a Heavy or Assault they still will be able to fulfill the Fast Scout role and get such firepower such as a large LRM barrage raining down on a "capitol" 'Mech. Having a "Scout Killer" hunt them down and neutralize that threat is going to be one of many priorities that the Battlefield Coordinator (BC) is going to have to handle correctly. This is one of many roles where a Medium will come into play.

[trycksh0t]

Dr.Killinger, on 12 March 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

The thing is, the 2 mediums we currently have, the Centurion and the Hunchback, are no faster than heavies. I'm kind of in the same boat as the OP- why take a medium when a heavy would do? They're too slow for scouting, but are the same speed as heavies, except with less firepower and armor.

Maybe they'll have more slots for modules?

Just because they've got the same ground speed doesn't necessarily mean they're the same. I'm willing to bet that mediums are less affected by terrain, are more maneuverable, and have faster torsos. If you can't outrun a heavy, but can out maneuver it, the fight is over. You can't kill what you can't hit.

[Russ Bullock]

Apologies as I didnt read every single response so I may repeat some information. A lot of this will comem down to really balancing our match making. Ideally all of the lances are well balanced between the roles as created by the players and the match maker. So playing your centurion wont put you in a match with 23 other heavies and Assaults. That should be balanced out with a mix of lights, mediums etc etc each time you take to the field.

Matchmaking will be a challenge but were committed to working hard at getting it right.

[WTChance]

Another thing to consider is just overall cost. You can field 4-6 mediums for the cost of a single 100 tonner. 2-4 vs. A heavy. I imagine most of the impact will depend on the c-bill vs. Mech interaction.

To be clear, also...

I'd take a half dozen centurions over an atlas any day. Hell, over a daishi for that matter.

[Azantia]

On the premise that PGI puts some type of control system in place either by battle value or by tonnage limit....Medium mechs will define your strategy as an organized unit. Meaning, the role in which you use the Medium Mechs will define the roles of your light, heavies and assaults, count on it. In a pick-up game, maybe not so much....

[Petroff Northrup]

Medium mechs used to be the main line mechs for the inner sphere versitile and capable of all roles.

[Aegis Kleais]

Russ Bullock, on 12 March 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Apologies as I didnt read every single response so I may repeat some information. A lot of this will comem down to really balancing our match making. Ideally all of the lances are well balanced between the roles as created by the players and the match maker. So playing your centurion wont put you in a match with 23 other heavies and Assaults. That should be balanced out with a mix of lights, mediums etc etc each time you take to the field.

Matchmaking will be a challenge but were committed to working hard at getting it right.

We recently were discussing the concerns on how MM would be implemented (as well as the Server/Cient setup PGI will use) I hope down the line when PGI is ready, we can get some more information about this.

Personally, if you guys don't get MM perfect to begin with, I'm not concerned; as you hinted, PGI can make adjustments as necessary (so I hope the community remembers that and doesn't jump down your throat if they feel things are unbalanced) We need to understand that balance takes time. Hopefully you guys get a good amount of quality feedback from the beta to help balance initial issues.

[Rugarou]

Russ Bullock, on 12 March 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Apologies as I didnt read every single response so I may repeat some information. A lot of this will comem down to really balancing our match making. Ideally all of the lances are well balanced between the roles as created by the players and the match maker. So playing your centurion wont put you in a match with 23 other heavies and Assaults. That should be balanced out with a mix of lights, mediums etc etc each time you take to the field.

Matchmaking will be a challenge but were committed to working hard at getting it right.

Glad to hear this Russ. It should stop some of the conjecture concerning having 11 assaults and one scout. And I think the vast majority of the current forum community realizes that balancing will take some time once you guys go live. I have faith in yall.

[Solis Obscuri]

phros, on 12 March 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

I'm sure those of you who have played the older mechwarrior games may be wondering this as well. In the past it has all been about the arms race really, the majority of players playing games online getting into heavies and assaults to duke it out. Some of the more skilled pilots messing around in lights. I am ecstatic that this isn't the case any more, the smaller mech chassis are something I find a lot more interesting than the bigger ones, but I have a query, in MWO where does the medium fit? Why am I asking this? Well we have this great sounding Role Warfare system, with modules and specialisations that allow a player to customise their mech to their playstyle, or even mix a couple of roles together. Lights are clearly the goto Scout mech, and I can see them possibly being used as a command platform as well. Having the speed to get out of a dodge might be very handy. Heavies and Assaults are clearly the Attackers and the Defenders, with the Heavies probably leaning a little more to attack roles due to speed issues. They are good candidates for a command platform as well with the heavy armour and weight allowances for possibly heavy command modules. So where does the plucky medium fit in? Looking at the Centurion, he has some solid firepower, but a heavy will always outgun him, he is fast, but not quite as fast as a light, and his armour isn't quite up to scratch compared to a heavy as well. Am I right in thinking they will be best used in multiple roles? Traditionally (in the fluff) they are pretty much the backbone of this era lances (mediums in general, not soley centurions!), with heavies being Big Deals and assaults catastrophic, this won't quite be the case in MWO, that "arms race" still exists a little. If you can afford a Dragon or an Atlas and you are playing an attacking role, why wouldn't you take one?. Apart from Light Mech Hunters, which they would excel at, I can't find a direct role for them. I don't have a problem with this, but I would really like to see peoples thoughts, where do you see the Centurion fitting into the battle? A fast response defender that can double as a heavier scout? Is flexibility the hallmark of the medium? I hope so.

If I get the jist of this question correctly, the issue comes down to: Light and Assault 'mechs both have very distinct roles at opposite ends of the spectrum, while Mediums and Heavies are "in between" with a good spread of firepower, armor, and mobility that make them useful for a variety of roles. But generally speaking, Heavies are about as fast as most Mediums (excepting a few speed demon designs), while sporting better armor and weapons loadouts. So what's the incentive to field a medium instead of a heavy?

Am I interpreting this correctly, phros?