129 replies to this topic

[FallguySoldier]

Mister Maf, on 29 March 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Crosscut

Mandatory addition at some point.

I hate to say it but that mech looks suspiciously a lot like a Gundam.

EDIT: ... With the head of an old-school Transformer.

Edited by FallguySoldier, 29 March 2012 - 07:05 AM.

[metro]

Excuse me for stepping in here folks,

This thread is about MW:O mechs with limbs that are operable.

Limbs on a mechanized unit lost in a battletech or MW:O style 12v12 or hot drop will not be allowed to be compared to current day warfare or the unfortunate loss by those that are innocent or collateral damage.
We certainly will not allow these current day situations to be made light of.


I must request that you all strive to keep this thread on topic, and request, that your posts be checked and rechecked for appropriate wording before you post....or else.

We welcome everyones participation, but if this thread gets out of line again, the offenders will find themselves in trouble with the mod team.

Its a fine line, please use discretion.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[Bouncin]

Siilk, on 29 March 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

Being in the lore ≠ being good for the sim game. For example, LAMs are in the lore too but they are not in the game. Besides, melee never felt quite right in BT. Multiton war machines kicking and punching each other with a grace of oversized pre-schoolers takes all remains of the realism and throws it out of the window, making you kiss your willing suspension of disbelief goodbye.

While I can, in theory, agree with the first sentence, the rest of the statement does not follow logically. Remember that in this setting, most 'mechs struggle with heat, making a non-heat intensive attack not only plausible, but practical. Second, there is the terrain factor. If I am defending (or assaulting) a city, there may be times when I come face to face with an enemy, easily within punching range (or kicking range), and the more damage I can do at one time, the better my odds of survival. So I fire everything I've got, and if I have an arm without weapons, you bet I'm going to punch with it. If not, then I am going to give you a boot with one of my feet before I start backpetalling or trying to get behind you for that juicy rear armor. Combat in the BT universe rarely happens on a huge open field. Instead, most battles happen in environments where terrain, if properly utilized, can make physical combat a useful (and even desirealble) tactic without detracting from any realism. In fact, failing to put physical combat into a game with mechs in it ultimately detracts from the realism.

OP: If for no other reason, keep the "useless limbs" for damage soaking.

Edited by Timothy MacBrian, 29 March 2012 - 07:24 AM.

[Scanlon]

Dont let them get you down Siilk, While I agree that melee combat is stupid, It's not in the game so theres really no point in decrying it.

@Timothy McBrian There are plenty of better alternatives to CQC than a campy axe on a battlemech.

[Paladin1]

s5134195, on 29 March 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

Pardon the ignorance of my first post, but I always assumed the Awesome's small laser was mounted inside its "claw":

I wouldn't call that ignorance, just a lack of total knowledge. The Awesome that you're seeing here is the AWS-9M Awesome, which has a Medium Pulse laser in the left arm. The AWS-8Q Awesome, which is the Awesome that most of us will see, has the Small Laser mounted in the head just above the cockpit as you can see below.

[Paladin1]

Scanlon, on 29 March 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

Dont let them get you down Siilk, While I agree that melee combat is stupid, It's not in the game so theres really no point in decrying it.

Actually, it is in the game. It's just that we don't know the full details of how it works or what options are available to us yet. The Devs have gone on record though stating that some forms of melee combat (DFAs and Charges) will be implemented.

Furthermore, it's also historically an option in Battletech and there are several dedicated melee designs in canon, which is the reason why so many are clamoring for it's inclusion in MWO. If anyone can make the case of melee's inclusion/exclusion being the cause of immersion suspension, it's those who want to see melee implemented. Melee combat is a part of the Battletech Universe, like it or not.

[BarHaid]

Paladin1, on 29 March 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

I wouldn't call that ignorance, just a lack of total knowledge. The Awesome that you're seeing here is the AWS-9M Awesome, which has a Medium Pulse laser in the left arm. The AWS-8Q Awesome, which is the Awesome that most of us will see, has the Small Laser mounted in the head just above the cockpit as you can see below.

Also, due to crappy art-style or just plain laziness, in the TRO 3050 the 4-fingered claw of the Awesome got turned into a weapon port. And for some reason it just stuck.

[Fetladral]

Siilk, on 29 March 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

Being in the lore ≠ being good for the sim game. For example, LAMs are in the lore too but they are not in the game. Besides, melee never felt quite right in BT. Multiton war machines kicking and punching each other with a grace of oversized pre-schoolers takes all remains of the realism and throws it out of the window, making you kiss your willing suspension of disbelief goodbye.

I agree it's like how transformers has high tech lasers and stuff and every battle degenerates to a fist fight. Plus all the mechs that don't have hands still would have to step on enemy mech on ground and shoot them. the chicken leg mechs can't really kick either. I'm fine with mechs like the hatchet man having melee but not all mechs having melee ability. Warhammers and timber wolfs and such don't really have the ability to use melee. even in the books you don't really see it except for the mechs that have melee weapons

[Paladin1]

BarHaid, on 29 March 2012 - 07:46 AM, said:

Also, due to crappy art-style or just plain laziness, in the TRO 3050 the 4-fingered claw of the Awesome got turned into a weapon port. And for some reason it just stuck.

I don't think it had as much to do with art style or laziness as it did the artist was trying to illustrate a new variant without altering the basic outline too much.

[Scanlon]

Paladin1, on 29 March 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Actually, it is in the game. It's just that we don't know the full details of how it works or what options are available to us yet. The Devs have gone on record though stating that some forms of melee combat (DFAs and Charges) will be implemented.

source? Because the FAQ says otherwise. Q7

[Paladin1]

Fetladral, on 29 March 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

I agree it's like how transformers has high tech lasers and stuff and every battle degenerates to a fist fight. Plus all the mechs that don't have hands still would have to step on enemy mech on ground and shoot them. the chicken leg mechs can't really kick either. I'm fine with mechs like the hatchet man having melee but not all mechs having melee ability. Warhammers and timber wolfs and such don't really have the ability to use melee. even in the books you don't really see it except for the mechs that have melee weapons

That's not entirely true Fetladral, you see designs of all types using melee but some, like the Hatchetman, are just better at it than others. The Warhammer, for example, can still punch with those PPCs and kick if the need arises. The same can be said about the MadCat and there's nothing stopping a chicken-legged `Mech from kicking.

Everyone needs to remember though, kicking in Battletech isn't like a martial arts kick. It's more of a stomp that's designed to crush actuators.

Scanlon, on 29 March 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

source? Because the FAQ says otherwise. Q7

Give me a second to find it, but ramming and DFAs have been mentioned before. The melee in Q7 is more like punching, kicking and hatchet attacks.

[fatcat01]

Use freed up tonnage from arm to add to armor; laugh at people that think they are attacking a weakened foe.

SMDMadCow, on 28 March 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Because now there is a large, gaping, unarmored hole in the side of you mech that enemies can see and shoot the internals of the torso.

....and maybe get some sort of plug for that hole.

[mr Zonke]

Don't know if it's been mentioned already, but a missing limb should make balance tricky yes?
The limbs serve as counterweights when running and maneuvering, or so I allways thought (try running without moving your arms).
So loosing a "useless" limb should/would/could (in addition to making internal structure exposed) effect balance of the mech, making it more likely to fall when moving in tricksy terrain or torsotwisting quickly, it might make weapons alignment slower etc.. Essentially it would make it harder on the gyro..
This would make sense I thinks..

<3

[Scanlon]

Intresting thought mr Zonke.

[Paladin1]

fatcat01, on 29 March 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

Use freed up tonnage from arm to add to armor; laugh at people that think they are attacking a weakened foe.





....and maybe get some sort of plug for that hole.

armor can only be added in a 2:1 ratio to internal structure. Loss of an arm doesn't give you extra tonnage to add armor elsewhere, it actually reduces the total amount of armor your chassis can mount.

[fatcat01]

Paladin1, on 29 March 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

armor can only be added in a 2:1 ratio to internal structure. Loss of an arm doesn't give you extra tonnage to add armor elsewhere, it actually reduces the total amount of armor your chassis can mount.

Everyone always trying to ruin my day with ridiculous things like facts and knowledge

[Paladin1]

Scanlon, on 29 March 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

source? Because the FAQ says otherwise. Q7

Okay, here we go.

The part about charging came from a combination of the reference to charging attacks in the Role Warfare discussion and the references to how the physics model works in MWO. There also was a reference to charging attack skill in the picture of the abilities in the Role Warfare explanation.

The DFA reference was actually from a tweet by Bryan that jumpjets were finally operational and now DFAs were an option.

You'll notice though that both attack types are based upon the physics engine and do not involve punching or kicking, where the other attack types do involve punching or kicking of some sort.

[Scanlon]

fatcat01, on 29 March 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

Everyone always trying to ruin my day with ridiculous things like facts and knowledge

I was searching for a toilet flush sound effect to post in light of Paladins information for you, but ultimatly decided against it.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Also, the Developers have stated in an interview that there will be an entire planet dedicated to close-quarters and melee combat.

Melee Combat.

Yes, they said it will be part of the game, just not at game launch because they haven't the time to fine-tune it yet.

If you're mad/upset that Melee will be brought to MechWarrior, then you should be equally upset/sad to discover that Ford, GM and Dodge are making Boss Mustangs, Cameros and Chargers again.

Melee has been part of BattleTech for decades, it just hasn't gotten into MechWarrior due to past computational constraints and the lack of an official dedicated-Multiplayer MachWarrior platform. If you have a problem with Melee, then stay more than 50 yards away from your target. If you hate Melee, then stay out of Melee range and you can spend all day laughing at the guy with an axe. If you deplore Melee and think all Melee fighters need to die... then kill them.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 29 March 2012 - 08:32 AM.

[fatcat01]

A bit off topic; but do you think we could get a bit of code that allows us to make rude gestures with our 'mech's hands?