79 replies to this topic

[Kobold]

First, read this post. Here is the language of consequence: (Emphasis added by Kobold)

Quote

ECM

We've had several internal playtests. Overall I'm excited to see this hit the battlefield, as it adds a very interesting tactical component. However, in its current state is very overpowered and makes certain mech builds even more useful (Gausspults). There was some general usability feedback from the team. Some found it hard to visualize, others wanted more indication that a friendly unit had an ECM equipped.

We're keeping it in test until some HUD/BattleGrid changes help smooth out communication, along with making sure the ECM is not OP. For those wanting to hide from LRMs, this will be your must have item.

All I want to know is what the heck are they making ECM do? In TT it has a very limited, specific list of uses.

1) Prevent the bonus from certain targeting systems (Narc, Artemis IV)
2) Break up C3 networks (not in game yet)
3) Power stealth armor (not in game yet)

Specifically in regard to point 1, it doesn't make the missile launchers impotent, it just makes the enhanced LRMs act as they would if Narc or Artemis IV were not present. Against most opponents, ECM is basically wasted tonnage in TT.

I am not against deviating from TT for gameplay improvement reasons. However it is worrying when PGI is inventing entirely new uses for otherwise relative niche equipment, then mentioning that what they are doing looks to be over powering.

Maybe I am being unnecessarily worried, but given the outcome of the last few major changes that have been made, and the massive amount of uproar over them, I have a healthy concern.


-------------

Bumping this thread due to the new information posted here: http://mwomercs.com/...dian-ecm-suite/

Language of consequence:

Quote

When your Mech is disrupted by an enemy ECM:

• You will not know where your teammates are, and they won’t know where you are, unless you have direct line of sight to each other.
  
• You cannot share any targeting data with the rest of your team, and vice versa.
  
• Your Beagle Active Probe ceases to function.
  
• You cannot achieve any missile locks.
  
• Your TAG laser can still fire but provides no bonuses.
  
• Your battlegrid and targeting information will flicker.

The vast majority of the extra benefits are pretty minor, but this is pretty crazy. Not only does this go wildly beyond the standard use of ECM in TT (which as stated before was a niche piece of equipment with fairly minor benefits), but it completely breaks entire categories of weapon systems.

Edited by Kobold, 27 November 2012 - 02:56 PM.

[Tekerton]

let's test it first and evaluate it from there, yeah? Speculation only serves to create expectations that rarely live up to the ideal.

And man, I don't want to stir the pot here, so understand I'm genuinely asking here...complaining before something comes out? I totally get seeing patch notes and wondering WTF, but in this case, seeing as how it's fairly well stated what the intention of the ECM is going to be, which does answer the question you just asked, I'm a bit confused as to why anyone would complain before ever getting their hands on it.

Edited by Tekerton, 04 November 2012 - 06:01 PM.

[DracheM]

I would imagine that the disabling c3 bit will remove shared targeting and allow only first person targeting. That makes sense for why it would give advantage to gaussapults; LRM boats can no longer fire indirectly if they have to get target lock themselves, thus exposing themselves to return direct fire.

[IIIuminaughty]

You jumpin the gun before everyone is even set

[Keifomofutu]

Essentially our existing shared target data IS a c3 network already.

[IIIuminaughty]

DracheM, on 04 November 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

I would imagine that the disabling c3 bit will remove shared targeting and allow only first person targeting. That makes sense for why it would give advantage to gaussapults; LRM boats can no longer fire indirectly if they have to get target lock themselves, thus exposing themselves to return direct fire.

U disable c3 the we will use Ts2/3 raidcall/xfire/ and all the other teamspeaking clients

So terrible Idea!

[Lin Shai]

StrataDragoon, on 04 November 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

U disable c3 the we will use Ts2/3 raidcall/xfire/ and all the other teamspeaking clients

So terrible Idea!

::sigh:: Not voice chat.

A C3 network is a thing in BattleTech: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/C3_Network

[DracheM]

StrataDragoon, on 04 November 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

U disable c3 the we will use Ts2/3 raidcall/xfire/ and all the other teamspeaking clients

So terrible Idea!

Not referring to c3 the voip program, but rather c3 the canon technology that provides (presumably) the in-game shared targeting network.

[Sarevos]

StrataDragoon, on 04 November 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

U disable c3 the we will use Ts2/3 raidcall/xfire/ and all the other teamspeaking clients

So terrible Idea!

C3 is the target sharing system in the BT universe...

[IIIuminaughty]

yeah i just relized what you guys was talking about after I re read but I was 2 late to delete post lol
Oopss

Back on topic
If they was to disable C3, wouldn't they have to make the radar more like the radar in MW4?
That's really the only way I can see ECM and BAP effective...

Edited by StrataDragoon, 04 November 2012 - 06:10 PM.

[Team Leader]

Lin Shai, on 04 November 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

::sigh:: Not voice chat.

A C3 network is a thing in BattleTech: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/C3_Network

lol
@ OP I dont understand how it could possibly be overpowered, when all it does is block artemis and narc, and 1 of those things NEVER gets used. You are right in your speculation, because honestly we have no idea what these guys are up to over there.

Edited by Team Leader, 04 November 2012 - 06:13 PM.

[Leetskeet]

It'll probably make missile locks take a lot longer to acquire and make them break a lot easier.

It may have some kind of flickery-disruption with nearby enemies HUDs/Radars that may create false readings for where enemies are.

Standard ECM stuff.

[Stone Wall]

ECM in MechWarrior 3 would make light mechs reallllyyy hard to hit with missles. Up close SRM users had to keep a steady target on the mech for about 3 seconds to get a lock. LRM users had no chance to hit the mech unless it was in the back or knocked down.

If ECM works like that, then many light mechs will be fast snipers or laser boat backshooters.

That game would have ER PPC light mechs or ER M light mechs that could stand at 600m against LRM users and snipe while dodging the missles.

Edited by Stone Wall, 04 November 2012 - 06:22 PM.

[General Taskeen]

ECM can also be countered, so I don't see how it is OP in anyway. Plus it sacrifices crit space and tonnage, like everything else. Even if one Mech has it installed, while they benefit from its advantages, other team mates need to be within the small radius of that ECM unit to also have its benefits (it is literally only extends only 180m in a circle around a Mech).

The comment from the developer that is it is OP, is because the way it is featured must not be fully programmed. Plus, if an enemy approaches at extreme close range within that 180m, the enemies sensors are supposed to be able to finally be able to target the ECM unit and transmit that data to other units (if C3 or C3i Lances). In other words, a super fast Light can easily sneak up on an ECM Mech, approach within that 180m, and transmit data to their Lance. And in any case, if someone can't target an ECM unit, it doesn't mean they can't just shoot at it if its already in visual range (it just can't be locked on for missile support).

Also ECM is countered later on in 3058 with even more equipment such as the Bloodhound Active Probe (an upgrade of the Beagle Active Probe) which detects ECM units.

Edited by General Taskeen, 04 November 2012 - 06:27 PM.

[Ultrabeast]

It would be cool if ECM prevented you from being targeted for a short period of time and caused a large amount of heat per second.

[General Taskeen]

Ultrabeast, on 04 November 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

It would be cool if ECM prevented you from being targeted for a short period of time and caused a large amount of heat per second.

ECM permanently prevents you from being targeted unless an enemy Mech approaches within the ECM's radius, with no heat build up (you are basically countered by fast lights, probes can also warn the user if a near by unit is jamming it with ECM, or simply being attacked by LOS weapons etc.).

However, there are other types of equipment, that DO cost heat and some can be turned on/off -> Stealth Armor , Null Signature System, Chameleon Light Polarization Shield, Void Signature System

[Foxfire]

Honestly, they need to limit who can and cant equip ECM and other EW gear.

If You can throw ECM and a BAP on a Jenner, for example.. then what is the point of the raven or commando?

[Team Leader]

Foxfire, on 04 November 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Honestly, they need to limit who can and cant equip ECM and other EW gear.

If You can throw ECM and a BAP on a Jenner, for example.. then what is the point of the raven or commando?

food for jenners

[Argent Usher]

The Guardian ECM Suite was introduced in 2597 by the Terran Hegemony^[1]. Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems, the Guardian is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors.^[2] Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming. The Capellan Confederation expanded the utility of the Guardian even more with the introduction of Stealth Armor.^[3][/color]
[color=#000000]
The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range, which extends out to only 180 meters. Sensors can sometimes override this jamming, though by that point the enemy unit is already within visual range and can track the opposition with their own eyes.^[2]



What I expect for YOU and all friendly units and other in 180m radius:



Cockpit/HUD:

Removes the targeting reticule.
Removes the thermal vision (key H)
Removes the night vision (key N)
Removes the magscan vision (not implemented yet)
Removes the sonar enhancer (not implemented yet)
Blocked all kind of informations related to a target (key R) or team mate (key Q)
Removes all mechs from the radar view and battlegrid in radius
Cosmetic all cockpit screens flicker from time to time
B1tchin Betty voice is distorted (not implemented yet)



Weapons:

100% blocked Artemis IV, BAP, C3 and C3 network (not implemented) and NARC
Streak missiles working as normal short range missiles
LRMs loose the tracking ability and flying to the last known position of the target
LRMs get a 100% increased missile lock time



Other:


Removes the ingame VOIP C3, teamchat and all chat






I guess I've forgotten most of it, sorry.

[Kobold]

Bumping this thread due to the new information posted here: http://mwomercs.com/...dian-ecm-suite/

Language of consequence:

Quote

When your Mech is disrupted by an enemy ECM:

• You will not know where your teammates are, and they won’t know where you are, unless you have direct line of sight to each other.
  
• You cannot share any targeting data with the rest of your team, and vice versa.
  
• Your Beagle Active Probe ceases to function.
  
• You cannot achieve any missile locks.
  
• Your TAG laser can still fire but provides no bonuses.
  
• Your battlegrid and targeting information will flicker.

The vast majority of the extra benefits are pretty minor, but this is pretty crazy. Not only does this go wildly beyond the standard use of ECM in TT (which as stated before was a niche piece of equipment with fairly minor benefits), but it completely breaks entire categories of weapon systems.