52 replies to this topic

[Hex Pallett]

FINAL UPDATE: I've elaborated my understanding with Hunchbacks into another post, which includes what I consider the best Hunchbacks within this chassis. The final version of Ghetto Delight is, of course, included. If you wanna fully upgrade your Hunchback skill tree, you might wanna check it out.


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UPDATE: Greatly thanks Golden Sentinel for the suggestion of engine-swapping with Jenner. The result was amazing.


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Okay I'm gonna make this short, because I don't have the patience and time to compose something like Vech's Fatlas & Zombie Wang guide. Oh if you haven't read those, you should check them out, too.

Why do I call Hunchback 4-P "Ghetto Delight"? Well, it's rather cheap, it consumes no ammo and it's a no-brainer 'Mech that requires minimum skills. Oh, and it's ridiculously powerful if you use it right. I just dominated 2 Centurions earlier today while being harassed by a Jen. Too bad I didn't have Fraps on.

(also you CAN zombie HBK4-P. I'll get to that later.)


Without further ado let's get to it! Allow me to introduce the Ghetto Delight Mk.I:

- 7x Small Laser (1x Head, 6x RT)

- 2x Medium Pulse Laser (1 on each Arm)

- Boost your armor all the way to the max (but you can strip off a ton or 2 on the legs)

- Stuff your 'Mech's side torsos with Heatsinks.


Yeah. Stock engine. Forget about the default 8xML that overheats in less than 3 alpha. My philosophy is, if your mech can't maintain a constant damage output then it's as good as junk. Screw heat management! With a heat efficiency something around 1.14, you should be able to go 10+ alpha strike nonstop before overheating.

The range that sounds like a problem, is actually not. The shabby 90m range of SL is kinda weak, and the 180m MPL is not exactly far. The answer is simple: Let them come to you. Let scouts and LRM boats do the bombing, your sparkling moment comes when things starts to go close and personal. As long as you follow the basic rules like stay in cover and never venture alone, in brawling you're essentially carrying an AC20 on your shoulder, only it fires almost twice as fast, 2000 times easier to aim and never uses ammo. Also the 2x MPL are good fo finishing off. Makes it super effective for burning scouts, backstabbing disoriented enemies and chewing arms and legs.

Oh, one more important thing: KEEP MOVING! There's a reason why Hunchback is called Hunchback, and experienced players would always aim for your "hunch". Therefore it is important to keep moving and disrupt their aim. Also, you may wanna put a bit more front armor on left torso, and let other parts of body take the heat if necessary.

If you just wanna reach a bit further and exchange the 2xMPL with 2xML+2xHS, feel free to do so. However your choice may affect the next step, which boost the potential of this loadout to the max.


Ghetto Delight Mk.2:

- scrap your Standard Engine 200 and grab an XL245.
- upgrade to Ferro Fibrous Armor.
Now your speed is all the way up to 79.3 km/h with a glorious 12% more armor at your disposal. Hey, if you think extra agility and health is no good for brawling then you should dump yourself into a sack of potatoes. And your "hunch" loves it! You can even switch the MPLs to MLs and go with an XL260 if you're looking for a bit more speed and range.

(If you did what I said above and are planning to buy a Jenner, go buy one. Then swap the engine with the Ghetto Delight Mk.I and both of them would better off. If you didn't, please continue)

- Cash out your shabby Standard 200 engine and buy yourself an Standard 245 engine.

- Buy Double Heatsink in the Upgrade tab, then stuff your 'Mech with as many DHS as you can (FYI, 9).

Now your speed is all the way up to 79.3 km/h, with EXACTLY the same heat efficiency and firepower. At this speed it's already pretty hard for enemies to focus fire on a specific body part...do you see where it's going? Speed = survivability, golden rule for a brawler.

Oh, and if you wanna boost your speed to the max, you can simply swap your MPL with ML, strip off a bit armor on your legs and feed yourself an Standard 260. With those mere sacrifices on your armor, your speed is now a glorious 84.2 km/h - you can even be an efficient scout hunter.



Okay, time to quit bragging and bring some proofs.

1. Even it was a defeat, just look at how much damage I dealt (I think this was the one I scraped 2 Centurions):


2. This is what happens when you just pops around and bite a few arms while your team is doing a good job:


3. This is the repair cost of a painfully long match in which my whole upper body was completely shredded:




See? As long as you know what you're doing, you should get like 100,000+ income every match. Even in those dreadfully terrible matches in which your 'Mech is burnt to ashes, the repair cost should never surpass 70,000. A steady income all the time!


Speaking of income, if you really wanna max out the C-Bill grind, just strip off the arm lasers and replace them with HS, or remove a few SL and replace them with lasers of your choice. Vech's Zombie Wang theory works on HBK4-P too, but you have to fix in this case both CT and RT to save your firepower.


And there goes my first guide. Thanks Vech for the inspiration and thanks again for Golden Sentinel for the suggestion. All the contents of the guide are subject to constructive criticism and further tweaks of the developer. Hopefully it helps.



UPDATE: Now I'm running a 260 engine with 2xML, which is slightly less firepower but more controllable heat wise. Also a bit more speed is never bad

Edited by Helmstif, 05 December 2012 - 10:51 PM.

[Lege]

Endo, DHS, MLs and standard 260, if DHS actually get fixed tomorrow this will work well.
Use the range of MLs to keep you out of the brawl, maybe find a small hill near a brawl.
I've won plenty of matches with only the ML in the head, but do protect your hunch to make it last longer.

[Mjoelnnir]

Your Guide is good until the Point of Ferro Fibrous. Ferro Fibrous doesn`t give you more Maximum Armor. Every Point in Armor you spent weights 12% less than Standard Armor. Which simply means your Armor weights less. In a fully maxed Hunchback it means you save about 0,8 Tons but you still remain the same Points of Armor. You simply save 0,8 Tons. There is one Golden Rule in Battletech, Forget about Ferro Fibrous, it is useless. Use Endo Steel, that will give you 2,5 Tons instead of 0,8 for the same amount of Crit Space.

[AlphaPiAlpha]

I like the Hunchbacks, great loadout options. Interesting guide. Thanks for that!

[Soulscour]

I recommend just medium lasers in arm and getting a standard 260 engine. You just can't let them shoot off that laser shoulder and 65kph vs 85kph can make a big difference. All I have for upgrades is the structure one. I just dont believe in double heatsinks being any good for anything but lights as they are.

[Hex Pallett]

Mjoelnnir, on 06 November 2012 - 02:15 AM, said:

Your Guide is good until the Point of Ferro Fibrous. Ferro Fibrous doesn`t give you more Maximum Armor. Every Point in Armor you spent weights 12% less than Standard Armor. Which simply means your Armor weights less. In a fully maxed Hunchback it means you save about 0,8 Tons but you still remain the same Points of Armor. You simply save 0,8 Tons. There is one Golden Rule in Battletech, Forget about Ferro Fibrous, it is useless. Use Endo Steel, that will give you 2,5 Tons instead of 0,8 for the same amount of Crit Space.

Thanks Gonna update soon.

However if anyone tried this loadout they would discover that any structural upgrade would use up ALL crit spaces, so there ain't much difference...now I'm trying to squeeze a bit more firepower into this build....

Edited by Helmstif, 06 November 2012 - 08:02 AM.

[Golden Sentinel]

I came up with a similar build to this last night actually. It's basically a variant on your 1st build, without using an XL engine. I own a Jenner as well, so what I did was I took my Jenner's stock engine (245 I think?) and threw it into a Hunchback P I got last night. Then I was able to run 2 medium lasers (1 per arm), and 7 smalls. I did use endo steel, but that was the only upgrade I threw at it (no DHS). So definitely an upgrade from the base build shown, and an intermediate to the XL version shown since it's a lot cheaper. Heck, the cost of a Jenner is probably just as much as the XL engine, so you could get a light mech for free and swap the engine back and forth .

The extra speed though is perfect for this build. I was having a blast with it last night, and found the smalls are great for knife fighting distance, and the mediums give you extra oomph and some further ranged blasting power. My only complaint is I can't fit an AMS on it, so I kind of have to watch the terrain to make sure I can run behind it for LRM cover, or I stay under the AMS umbrella of my teammates.

Edited by Golden Sentinel, 06 November 2012 - 09:12 AM.

[Hex Pallett]

Golden Sentinel, on 06 November 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

I came up with a similar build to this last night actually. It's basically a variant on your 1st build, without using an XL engine. I own a Jenner as well, so what I did was I took my Jenner's stock engine (245 I think?) and threw it into a Hunchback P I got last night. Then I was able to run 2 medium lasers (1 per arm), and 7 smalls. I did use endo steel, but that was the only upgrade I threw at it (no DHS). So definitely an upgrade from the base build shown, and an intermediate to the XL version shown since it's a lot cheaper. Heck, the cost of a Jenner is probably just as much as the XL engine, so you could get a light mech for free and swap the engine back and forth .

I love you man.

I actually tossed a few dimes today and bought a Jenner (and yes, it's using standard 245) and swapped engine with my 4-P, then upgraded the with DHS.

Guess what?

The results turns out to be exactly the same!! Same weaponry, same heat efficiency with with 9x DHS, only it only costs half to repair! I'm gonna update the build right now.

[Golden Sentinel]

Helmstif, on 06 November 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

I love you man.

I actually tossed a few dimes today and bought a Jenner (and yes, it's using standard 245) and swapped engine with my 4-P, then upgraded the with DHS.

Guess what?

The results turns out to be exactly the same!! Same weaponry, same heat efficiency with with 9x DHS, only it only costs half to repair! I'm gonna update the build right now.

Cool, glad you like it. For a budget version, you *can* run it without DHS though. Because of the incoming DHS changes I was reluctant to try it last night. And I've been running it tonight with singles and it's still pretty good. I was trying to keep costs down, so this is the build I run as the poor man's version (assuming you have a 245 engine somehow):

Head: Small Laser
CT: 245Engine, 2 heat sinks
RT: 6 Small Lasers, 2 Heat Sinks
LT: 7 Single Heat Sinks
RA/LA: Medium Laser in each arm
RL/LL: 2 Heat Sinks per leg

Then I added endo steel to reduce the weight. My heat efficiency is 1.16 after all that. I then group my mediums together, but put them on chain fire. And them I group all my smalls together on group fire. Heat *can* be an issue but if you're careful you can manage it.

I run this as a backstabber and knife fighter. Hang back with the heavies and act as the bulldog to fend off folks. And then I kind of push ahead and look for stragglers or guys in combat, so I can sneak up and start beaming them in the back while I circle at 79kph.

I made this last night, and I'm loving the above build.

EDIT:
OK, I agree with some of your tweaks after playing around in the mech lab more. The main reason is I was able to fit an AMS in now lol.

So what I did is I downgraded back to regular structure, and bought DHS. I was able to keep the same heat efficiency as before. I then was able to finally add in an AMS and a ton of ammo to cover me when I get exposed to LRMs. Then I dropped in a 260 standard engine I took from one of my three Catapults (gee, I must like Cats lol). With what tonnage remained, I maxed out my armor as much as it would let me.

One added comment, I made sure my back armor was all 16 minimum for each. With us running around and in brawling range, we're exposed to LRM fire, and you pretty much need 16 to survive an LRM barrage from behind. I think it'll help survivability. Trying it now.

Edited by Golden Sentinel, 06 November 2012 - 08:51 PM.

[Adrius91]

My Ogre MK2 (mark 1 got wiped in open beta launch my old friend) Hunchback is pretty much like OP's build.

Has 260 Standard, 6 Small Lasers, 2 Medium Pulse Lasers, TAG, AMS + 1 ton of Ammo, DHS + Endo Steel. Granted I haven't played since the last patch arrived so I dunno if it's still viable... haven't checked the patchnotes too well.

It's a dream to pilot. I love the way Hunches handle... tried other mechs but... nah nothing like it.

Edited by Adrius91, 08 November 2012 - 04:20 AM.

[Axolotl777]

I can only fit a Standard Engine 235 right now...I wonder what the problem is.
Here is what I'm running:

-2x Double Pulse Lasers, and 2x DHS in each arm.
-AMS and 3x DHS in Left Torso along with a ton of ammo.
-6x small lasers and 2x DHS in Right Torso
-1x small laser in Head.
-Heat Sink Upgrade.

[Adrius91]

I think you're in need of Endo Steel

I actually pack 2 tons of AMS ammo cuz I had 1 extra tonnage available and didn't know what else to spend it on... guess I could pack an odd medium laser along 5 small lasers in my shoulder but that would just feel weird :3 Ain't got enough crit space for another DHS so...

EDIT:
Oh and my Hunch still works haha... 5 kills in my first game... waaaaaat ^^

My K/D is 2.37 and I never touched a premade o_O All hail the Swayback, my skill is not THAT awesome, it's the mech doing the job for me.

Edited by Adrius91, 08 November 2012 - 03:17 PM.

[Hex Pallett]

Adrius91, on 08 November 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

I think you're in need of Endo Steel

No need.

Axolotl777, on 08 November 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

I can only fit a Standard Engine 235 right now...I wonder what the problem is.
Here is what I'm running:

-2x Double Pulse Lasers, and 2x DHS in each arm.
-AMS and 3x DHS in Left Torso along with a ton of ammo.
-6x small lasers and 2x DHS in Right Torso
-1x small laser in Head.
-Heat Sink Upgrade.

You sure you didn't somehow put something you don't need in the leg??

[Jaded Jasper]

Those aren't bad. I like this take better though:

Standard 260 engine
20 "double" heatsinks
6 Small Lasers in the hunch, 3 Medium Lasers in the arms and head.

- max speed is key to ambushing and escaping.
- Frequently in the opening phases of a battle it's useful to harass from mid range with 3 MLs while you look for on opening to pounce.
- When you're heavily damaged it's handy to be able to hang back and use the MLs.
- Volley is 33 damage -- just enough to headshot a powered down mech.
- Better heat management than the MPL variants above.
- 3 medium lasers mean you'll still have two if your small lasers get stripped.

My most effective tactic is to sneak up behind a busy or inattentive foe and leg them. If you go for the rear torso tougher mechs will often survive long enough to twist the weak spot away, but it's much harder to hide a wounded leg and once you blast one lag the other follows swiftly. If you can teammate up with another mech good at legging, so much the better!

Edited by Jaded Jasper, 09 November 2012 - 12:07 AM.

[Wrenchfarm]

I'm posting for the very first time to thank you for this build Helmstif.

I never thought I could love another mech as much as my SP4. 5 Medium lasers and 2 packs of SRM6's are hard to argue with. But you know what else is hard to argue with? MELTING A DUDE BY STARING AT HIM.

When I bear down on one of those tiny Coms or Cicadas in my new Ghetto delight, 7 small lasers boring a hole in their chassis and the medium pulse lasers pounding at their core, I like to think I'm burning them to death with pure hate. And when they try to run, only to find out I'm surprisingly able to keep up with them? Well, their terror fills me with delight.

I didn't think I would love small lasers again. Not after my Jenner disappointed me. But when I did 600+ damage the FIRST TIME I took the Ghetto Delight for a spin, I changed my tune. The best thing I can say about the Jenner now is "thanks for the spare parts".

So now that I'm two-deep with Hunchbacks and maxed out the basic XP trees for them, I feel like I GOTTA go for a third and open up the elite skills. Any other recommendations other than the SP4 for Hunchies?

[Kmieciu]

Small lasers are still most heat efficient, but easy to counter:

[Redshift2k5]

Double Heat sinks and a boatload of Medium Lasers isn't that hard to manage; it has a higher initial cost (1.5 mil for the DHS) but the repair costs are still pretty heap, and 8 ML will give you way more range and damage than a pile of smlas

learning some fire discipline and heat managment along the way will always make you a better pilot.

[Hex Pallett]

Wrenchfarm, on 09 November 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

So now that I'm two-deep with Hunchbacks and maxed out the basic XP trees for them, I feel like I GOTTA go for a third and open up the elite skills. Any other recommendations other than the SP4 for Hunchies?

Glad you like it! Oh and next time try to flank a LRMCat and ALPHA STRIKE in it's tiny cockpit windows.

I'm currently running a 4G with 2xAC5, 2xMPL, Endo and DHS with an XL245 I saved from the deleted Ghetto Mk.II build. Costs a bit more to fix but the "POW POW POW POW" is absolutely satisfying.

I also tried a "Gausspult Killer" build which is one AC2 plus a Gauss. Didn't stick to that though because it's pretty darn expensive to fix if someone kills my hump.

Redshift2k5, on 09 November 2012 - 04:18 AM, said:

Double Heat sinks and a boatload of Medium Lasers isn't that hard to manage; it has a higher initial cost (1.5 mil for the DHS) but the repair costs are still pretty heap, and 8 ML will give you way more range and damage than a pile of smlas

learning some fire discipline and heat managment along the way will always make you a better pilot.

I've dueled a few of that kind of build. I win every time.

If you actually tried my build, you'd realize I've stuffed every corner of the 'Mech with DHS. An ML boat has more heat but less DHS so there's no way it can match my damage output. Endo and XL engine may bring more weight for a few SHS but again, that would be pretty damn expensive. Plus my POINT was to make a build with minimal heat management.

[Golden Sentinel]

Helmstif, on 09 November 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

If you actually tried my build, you'd realize I've stuffed every corner of the 'Mech with DHS. An ML boat has more heat but less DHS so there's no way it can match my damage output. Endo and XL engine may bring more weight for a few SHS but again, that would be pretty damn expensive. Plus my POINT was to make a build with minimal heat management.

Yeah, I agree. We're both running effectively the same build now, and you'd make too many alternative sacrifices with XL and Endo. I really don't want to chance a kill with the XL slots in my side torso. As it is, I'm using my left torso as a shield sometimes.

But to give further feedback to the 260 standard variant w/ DHS, I'm loving it. This is now my favorite mech in general. Low repair costs, and just a blast to play. Fitting the AMS was definitely worth it too. My favorite battle was on the city map last night. An Atlas was fighting an Atlas in the city blocks, and while they were fighting I was sitting there at 80kph just zipping block to block, giving the Atlas tons of lasers into the back each time. And then when he killed my teammate, I was basically continuing to do that, just speeding from behind buildings, zapping him in the back, then darting back around the next building. Eventually I took him down that way.

I will say, the only downside to the mech is sometimes I get too bold. I'll see what I think is a target of opportunity and over-extend myself, and get outnumbered. But there's way around it. Usually I shoot as many as a can on the run and either retreat, or just say to heck with it and charge their base. Assuming I don't get focus fired first to death before I can break LOS.

Edited by Golden Sentinel, 09 November 2012 - 09:57 AM.

[Ranzear]

So I've ground my 4P out to what I consider the maximum damage potential at any range. It's rather interesting how well this setup fits together. I've looked at cramming an XL engine in, which dashes survivability with people targeting your hunch. I've looked at Endo Steel, which forces me to drop a heat sink to fit the criticals and the only thing I'd use the extra tonnage for is... more heat sinks. I even took a good hard look at Ferro Fibrous before checking what was in my drink.

Shopping list:
HBK-4P
Leave the Stock 200 engine in it.
Put 9x Flamers in it for lulz while you farm up a couple million.
DHS upgrade.
7x Small Laser (6x RT, 1x HD)
2x ER Large Laser (1x LA, 1x RA)
+10x Double Heat Sinks (2x LA, 2x RA, 4x LT, 2x RT)

Mechbay stats:
50 Tons
39 Firepower
1.0 Heat Efficiency
320 Armor

The important bit is weapon groupings. All 7 Small Lasers together, both ER Large together. This puts all damage of each group on a single point.

With the Small Laser bazooka, you have 21 damage, a point more than an AC/20, on 2.25 second fire rate, almost twice as fast as that AC/20, for 14 heat, less than the 4x Mediums of a 4SP or even 3x Medium Pulse.

With the ER Large pair you have 1350m range and hit for 18 damage at 20 heat. Nobody really expects this in MWO currently and I've knocked an ear off a Catapult on Forest Lake in three shots flat. LRMs don't teach people to keep their head down, but these do.

Best consideration: Economy. You might dump 800k into those ER Large, but you never pay repairs on them unlike an Endo or XL upgrade. My repair costs on a complete beatdown (double armed, triple cored) are about 35k, so I don't have to fear brawling away my bottom line.

First option I'd propose is switching the ER Large to Mediums and fitting a Standard 260 engine perfectly. This gives you a bonus engine sink too (at full 2.0 effectiveness afaik). You lose that wicked punch even at moderate range though, and extreme range goes out the window. I don't feel the need for the speed upgrade though, since you don't really have to chase anything down nor run away from anything in this setup.

Edited by Ranzear, 12 November 2012 - 01:02 AM.